eyeball Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, I am Groot said: What replaced them would be most unlikely to look upon the US favorably. It couldn't if it hoped to get elected or re-elected because such an action from the US would turn the Canadian population against the US. Too much of that and we'll be diverting all our natural resources to China instead of the US and signing free trade deals with them. Well, if we had a a more robust strict principle about not wheeling and dealing with dictators we'd include sanctions against their networks of support as well. We shouldn't be looking favorably on anyone who supports a dictator be it directly through outright military aid or indirectly through trade. Don't forget our grandparents sacrificed some 40% or more of their GDP fighting tyranny. Don't say it can't be done when people have done it Edited October 29, 2022 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 Well it's 2022. When was the last time ships battled each other with their guns? Coral Sea 1942? Leyte Gulf 1944? They're just to drive away pirates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 14 hours ago, herbie said: Well it's 2022. When was the last time ships battled each other with their guns? Coral Sea 1942? Leyte Gulf 1944? They're just to drive away pirates. Norwegian and Danish arctic patrol ships mount 58 and 76mm guns plus secondary machine gun armament and missile and torpedo carrying capability. Our DeWolfes have a 20mm gun and a couple of 50 cal machine guns and no missile or torpedo capability. The Scandinavian ships are real warship's, ours are just there to show the flag. Edited October 29, 2022 by Aristides 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 14 hours ago, herbie said: Well it's 2022. When was the last time ships battled each other with their guns? Coral Sea 1942? Leyte Gulf 1944? They're just to drive away pirates. well, Vietnam gulf of Tonkin incident seen US naval guns put into action against other enemy naval craft, lately in the gulf naval gun fire has been used to ward of Iranian naval craft, also in the Ukrainian conflict has seen naval gun fire exchanged. The fact that many navies are looking for bigger guns with longer ranges that can be used for bombardment or to engage other naval craft, is another hint that guns are not obsolete as you would think, missiles are very expensive, shells are very cheap. I think Aristides comments stands, this is a naval ship without any teeth, not a liberal play toy made for parades and dog and pony shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 14 hours ago, eyeball said: . Don't forget our grandparents sacrificed some 40% or more of their GDP fighting tyranny. Don't say it can't be done when people have done it You're one of the few Canadians concerned about what previous generations contributed to our defense, today actions from government and the people speak louder than words, that ring hollow to most Canadians, as they frankly don't care, they are more interested in themselves than their nation. One must believe in a nation before one can start fighting tyranny around the globe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: One must believe in a nation before one can start fighting tyranny around the globe. the regiment is my fatherland Canada is simply the Confederation fight tyranny at home, before you go tilling a foreign windmills one cannot believe in a nation which abridges our fundamental rights under a false invocation of Section 1 of the Charter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 On 10/27/2022 at 9:49 PM, Dougie93 said: no, I favour disbanding the entire Canadian Forces Canada totally relies on America for its national defence Canada should stop wasting $20 billion a year on the pretense that it actually defends itself I agree 100 %, Canada is content on sucking on the teats of the US for it's defense, for everything really, our culture, our values, morals, well everything. Like a leach, we have no sense of worth, don't care about sovereignty, what we care is lining our pockets.. We have become a nation of weaklings, with soft underbellies, we don't deserve the sacrifices other Canadians make on our behalf, When times are good our nation produces soft people, when times are tough, the nation produces tougher people. right now, we are so weak it is pathic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Army Guy said: I agree 100 %, Canada is content on sucking on the teats of the US for it's defense, for everything really, our culture, our values, morals, well everything. Like a leach, we have no sense of worth, don't care about sovereignty, what we care is lining our pockets.. We have become a nation of weaklings, with soft underbellies, we don't deserve the sacrifices other Canadians make on our behalf, When times are good our nation produces soft people, when times are tough, the nation produces tougher people. right now, we are so weak it is pathic. I just got together with my closest brothers from the 48th, in September and parents too, whole families together for the weekend everyone there was fiercely loyal to the regiment, the colours, everything we stand for you can call us "Militia Maggots" if you want but every one of us would go over the top for the colours not just us troops, our parents too Edited October 30, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: I just got together with my closest brothers from the 48th, in September and parents too, whole families together for the weekend everyone there was fiercely loyal to the regiment, the colours, everything we stand for you can call us "Militia Maggots" if you want but every one of us would go over the top for the colours not just us troops, our parents too Dougie i'm not questioning your loyalty or the loyalty of your brothers, i question that of the average Canadian that is no affiliation in any way with our military. I have already said every militia man or women that i have served with in Afghanistan, has won my respect ten times over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 20 hours ago, Army Guy said: Dougie i'm not questioning your loyalty or the loyalty of your brothers, i question that of the average Canadian that is no affiliation in any way with our military. I have already said every militia man or women that i have served with in Afghanistan, has won my respect ten times over. I never thought that you would all I am saying is, tho the Militia does not have the support that the Regular Force does the Militia on the whole cannot meet the standard of 1 RCR at Y-101 but the regimental family, the bound between us, is unto death as necessary, we are not super soldiers we are the average Canadians Edited October 30, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 18 hours ago, herbie said: Well it's 2022. When was the last time ships battled each other with their guns? Coral Sea 1942? Leyte Gulf 1944? They're just to drive away pirates. This is the gun carried by the Danish ships Quote The OTO Melara 76 mm gun is a naval gun built and designed by the Italian defence company Oto Melara. It is based on the Oto Melara 76/62C and evolved toward 76/62 SR and 76/62 Strales.[1] The system is compact enough to be installed on relatively small warships. Its high rate of fire and the availability of several types of ammunition make it capable for short-range anti-missile point defence, anti-aircraft, anti-surface, and ground support. Ammunition includes armour-piercing, incendiary, directed fragmentation effects, and a guided round marketed as capable of destroying manoeuvring anti-ship missiles. It can be installed in a stealth cupola. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 29, 2022 Report Share Posted October 29, 2022 18 hours ago, herbie said: Well it's 2022. When was the last time ships battled each other with their guns? Coral Sea 1942? Leyte Gulf 1944? They're just to drive away pirates. Leyte Gulf was the last big fleet vs fleet engagement such that it was. The poor IJN got served. Coral Sea the two fleets never saw each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) Battleships were used for coastal bombardment as late as the 80's in Lebanon and during the first Gulf War. Edited October 30, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: You're one of the few Canadians concerned about what previous generations contributed to our defense, today actions from government and the people speak louder than words, that ring hollow to most Canadians, as they frankly don't care, they are more interested in themselves than their nation. One must believe in a nation before one can start fighting tyranny around the globe. I think one has to feel like they belong to a nation to belief in it. Simply being told I belong or should feel like I do misses the point. I sure hope there's more Canadians who are as concerned as me about what principles we bring to what I think is the greatest challenge bar none, facing Canada and humanity - dictators. The fewer Canadians there are who feel like this the less I believe in it. I'm not interested in apologizing for being uncompromising about a principle of 'no truck nor trade' when it comes to dictators or anyone who chooses to. It's as fundamentally a you're-either-with-us or you're-not issue as it gets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Canadian procurement is awesome bahahhaa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Sorry, was thinking the IJN night attack during the Guadalcanal landings was the Coral Sea... my bad. Point was that we're never going to see purely naval engagements again. Aircraft ended that 80 years ago, anti-ship missiles make them obsolete now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 11 hours ago, herbie said: Point was that we're never going to see purely naval engagements again. Aircraft ended that 80 years ago, anti-ship missiles make them obsolete now. the aircraft engagements have also been rendered obselete the battle fleets were the arm of decision at the strategic level that role is now executed by the nuclear powered ballistic missile submarine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 bear in mind that the role of the frigate has not changed since its invention in the 17th century a frigate was never a ship of the line meant to engage with the battle fleets the frigate is actually a peacetime warship it's role has always been lightly armed patrol & escort frigates are not meant for war against other military powers frigates are scouts for reconnaissance, and counter piracy escorts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 just to understand the roles of the other classes : a corvette is a small frigate for coastal operations a destroyer protects your capital ships by intercepting & destroying inbound threats the cruiser is a combatant which sailed long distances around the world, independent of the battle fleets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Frigates were the backbone of the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic wars. Quote “If I Were to Die This Moment, Want of Frigates Would be Found Engraved on my Heart” Horatio Nelson. https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/the-frigate-sailing-ship-pride-of-the-british-royal-navy/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 Trudeau won't spend the money on the Canadian Forces that it needs but he apparently stayed in a $6,000 a night hotel according to journalist Lilley. Also see: Chris Selley: $7K hotel suites. $93K catering bills. Trudeau's buying himself a populist backlash (msn.com) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Aristides said: Frigates were the backbone of the Royal Navy during the Napoleonic wars. not as the arm of decision the Ships of the Line won the war at Trafalgar Frigates were patrol & escort vessels which did not engage in decisive battle two frigates make contact on the high seas, engage in a fight, that's not decisive Frigates will skirmish with other lesser warships, but they were not part of the battle fleet Edited October 30, 2022 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 13 hours ago, herbie said: Sorry, was thinking the IJN night attack during the Guadalcanal landings was the Coral Sea... my bad. Point was that we're never going to see purely naval engagements again. Aircraft ended that 80 years ago, anti-ship missiles make them obsolete now. Savo Island...a bloodbath for the USN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Dougie93 said: not as the arm of decision the Ships of the Line won the war at Trafalgar Frigates were patrol & escort vessels which did not engage in decisive battle two frigates make contact on the high seas, engage in a fight, that's not decisive Frigates will skirmish with other lesser warships, but they were not part of the battle fleet Fleet actions were very rare during the the Napoleonic Wars. There were really only four over a period of 20 years. St. Vincent, Camperdown, Finistere which was prelude to Trafalgar and Trafalgar itself. Line of battle ships were used mostly to keep French and Spanish fleets blockaded in their ports. Most of the fighting was done by frigates. In the case of the War of 1812 all the major actions were between frigates. Frigates and then cruisers were the ships of empire. They could go anywhere, do almost anything and carried enough marines to be effective in limited ground operations. Frigate captains such as Cochrane, Hoste, Mundy, Smith, Broke and Pellew were the military rock stars of their day. Edited October 30, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted October 30, 2022 Report Share Posted October 30, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Fleet actions were very rare during the the Napoleonic Wars. right, because it was a prolonged indecisive conflict most of the British efforts were actually about paying for coalitions to fight Bonaparte on the Continent the naval actions consisted mostly of patrolling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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