Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) the military industrial complexes are certainly happy to see NATO divesting itself of aging tanks as they will have to be replaced now the first of the next generation NATO MBT's is already fielded as a prototype the Rheinmetall KF51 Panther mounting the RH130/L51 130mm/51 calibre smoothbore main armament just a primer on tank guns : they are measured by diameter of the barrel : 120mm and the length of the barrel by the length of the shells it fires : 44 calibre so Leo2 has two gun versions for example Leo2A4/A5 have the RH120/L44 120mm/44 calibre gun Leo2A6/A7 have the RH120/L55 120mm/55 calibre gun Abrams uses an American version of the German RH120/L44 designated the M256 the longer the gun, the higher the muzzle velocity, which increases effective range the main Russian gun (T-64, T-72, T-80, T-90) is the Spetstekhnika Design Bureau 2A46M 125mm/48 calibre gun same thing applies to artillery so for example the M777A2L39 towed Howitzer is 155mm/39 calibre while the PZH2000 SP Howitzer is 155mm/52 calibre Edited January 26 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) 17 hours ago, Dougie93 said: training is the limiting factor the Ukrainians are being given one or two squadrons of tanks at a time because that's how many tank crews that are available to be trained at a time they won't have the crews to operate 360 NATO tanks, that will take months Good point. Sending them tanks before they could become operational would just make them stationary targets that can't shoot back. Edited January 26 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: Good point. Sending them tanks before they could become operational would just make them stationary targets that can't shoot back. well, it's not just the four man crews they need battlefield support troops as well recovery, repair, maintenance, resupply and all those troops have to be trained to work on the new tanks so its going to take awhile to train up a NATO tank army in Ukraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, Dougie93 said: the military industrial complexes are certainly happy to see NATO divesting itself of aging tanks as they will have to be replaced now the first of the next generation NATO MBT's is already fielded as a prototype the Rheinmetall KF51 Panther mounting the RH130/L51 130mm/51 calibre smoothbore main armament just a primer on tank guns : they are measured by diameter of the barrel : 120mm and the length of the barrel by the length of the shells it fires : 44 calibre so Leo2 has two gun versions for example Leo2A4/A5 have the RH120/L44 120mm/44 calibre gun Leo2A6/A7 have the RH120/L55 120mm/55 calibre gun Abrams uses an American version of the German RH120/L44 designated the M256 the longer the gun, the higher the muzzle velocity, which increases effective range the main Russian gun (T-64, T-72, T-80, T-90) is the Spetstekhnika Design Bureau 2A46M 125mm/48 calibre gun same thing applies to artillery so for example the M777A2L39 towed Howitzer is 155mm/39 calibre while the PZH2000 SP Howitzer is 155mm/52 calibre I like tanks. I like reading about tanks. I have never been in one. From what I've read so far, the Panther is going to use the Leo 2 chassis and the main difference will be a more modern turret/targeting and larger cannon, so it's not going to be a particularly large leap in evolution. Yes? No? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) 12 hours ago, Moonbox said: I like tanks. I like reading about tanks. I have never been in one. From what I've read so far, the Panther is going to use the Leo 2 chassis and the main difference will be a more modern turret/targeting and larger cannon, so it's not going to be a particularly large leap in evolution. Yes? No? there is no actual reason for a revolutionary change to the tank a revolutionary change would be replacing the tank with something else but the tank is simply mobile heavy armoured direct firepower you have to have it to advance and take ground from a mechanized enemy and it still does that job very well the turret of the KF51 is quite different from the Leopard mind you they have gone to an auto loader replacing the loader the loader position is replaced by another seated crewman that can be a commander running a battle management system for the troop, squadron, or regiment or another specialist operator, such as someone to control drones to work with the tank + the KF51 adds missile launchers to the turret which could load four missiles, like Javelin, or loitering munition kamikaze drones like Switchblade Edited January 27 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 From my layman's understanding, I think it's good that they are keeping a 4-person crew. Managing the workload with just three people is challenging/stressful, based on hat I've been told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 28 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I have never been in one. thing is, being in an Armoured Regiment is basically like being in a logistics trade in the infantry, you spend most of your time running around in the woods doing infantry shit but in an Armoured Regiment, you spend most of your time in the shop working on the tank the amount of time they get to actually bomb around in the tank shooting things up, is disappointingly limited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: From my layman's understanding, I think it's good that they are keeping a 4-person crew. Managing the workload with just three people is challenging/stressful, based on hat I've been told. yeah, that's a big difference between the Infantry and the Armour the Infantry is a team of rivals, we are always scrapping with each other, everybody is agressive while tank crews have to get along, so they are much more laid back, having to live cramped up with each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 It would still be wild. I looked into signing up as an armor officer years ago. At the time, I think there was a lot of uncertainty about what track you would end up getting placed in, so I stuck with my boring bank job out of uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Moonbox said: It would still be wild. I looked into signing up as an armor officer years ago. At the time, I think there was a lot of uncertainty about what track you would end up getting placed in, so I stuck with my boring bank job out of uni. indeed, if you're going to go Armour, it's better to be the officer otherwise you are just a grease monkey who serves the machine really only the officer knows what is going on and gets to employ tactics but you don't want to go Canadian Army, they barely have any tanks if you want to be a tank officer actually getting to do anything, you'd have to go US Army Russia is an Artillery Army Canada is an Infantry Army America is the Calvary Army Edited January 26 by Dougie93 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 30 minutes ago, Moonbox said: so I stuck with my boring bank job war is boring most of the time in the military is "hurry up & wait" the joy of being a soldier is the comradery suffering hardship gladly, with brothers who become closer to you than anyone but your wife in any situation, no matter how dreary, you make your own fun smoking & joking at the back of the bus with the boys ducimus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 26 Report Share Posted January 26 definitely do subscribe tho, to this "the tank is obsolete" nonsense mobile protected firepower never goes out of style the end of the tank would mean the end of mechanized warfare itself and that is nowhere on the horizon, Starship Troopers are many decades from coming to pass just on the expense alone it's not about what is possible it's about what is affordable & efficient within the context of industrial production wars here's another of the next generation NATO tanks the Franco-German-Italian Enhanced Main Battle Tank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goddess Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 What do you think the Russians will think when they see all those tanks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 1 hour ago, Goddess said: What do you think the Russians will think when they see all those tanks? RUN AWAY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Wall Street Journal posted a video analysis comparing Western Tanks to Russia's armor: Edited January 27 by Contrarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athos Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Australian open celebrates Russian victory. Djokovic senior: "Long live Russia" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 This civil/internal war among Slavs is a complete disaster for the West. It is not our problem. ====== Like in 1912 or so, so-called elites in the civilised world are about to destroy life for the rest of us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 Appeasement led to WW2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athos Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 2 hours ago, August1991 said: This civil/internal war among Slavs is a complete disaster for the West. It is not our problem. ====== Like in 1912 or so, so-called elites in the civilised world are about to destroy life for the rest of us. Still, it's nice when Ukrainians and Russians die in your war for your interests. isn't it. But there is a karma proverb: "What ever you do comes back to you" 😀 Edited January 27 by athos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 5 hours ago, athos said: there is a karma proverb: "What ever you do comes back to you" 😀 Correct. Is happening to the Russian KGB right now. 😀 All the years of misery which they, your masters that you support, brought to Eastern Europe along history. You have yet to show me an example where your ilk went and did something positive. Now, the time to pay the bill is here. There is no Churchill in the West to save your leaders, tovarisch. One way or another all the criminals at the top of your system will have to pay this time. ---> Is like you say, Karma. PS: stop talking like you care about the Ukrainians, what Nikolai II and Stalin did to them was Hitler's tactics. The only reason they got away with it was because of politics and environment at the time. Do you think the world will stop at a bunch of barbarians and some of their disenfranchised fans in the West that you are trying to recruit here, comrade? Keep posting, I have an answer every time. Is not like I came to this country to see the same red communists trying to brainwash with the same tactics. It is effective I will tell you that, if you travel in some regions of the old Soviet Empire, people still think the Americans never made it to the Moon due to your propaganda. When one can't compete, he lowers the level of discussion. This is what the KGB used to do, they used to send agents to old people to lie to them by saying the Moon landing was fake. 😂 ---> Some news from Latvia: Edited January 27 by Contrarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 11 hours ago, Goddess said: What do you think the Russians will think when they see all those tanks? it's not enough tanks to win the war the situation is a World War One style stalemate in the trenches on a front across hundreds of miles neither side has the mass to breakout and defeat the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 11 hours ago, Goddess said: What do you think the Russians will think when they see all those tanks? They'll just bomb them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) Canada also sending 4 tanks: https://youtu.be/56pe2RS5w68 Edited January 27 by Contrarian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Contrarian Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Nationalist said: They'll just bomb them. How is that make you feel? That your idol, Putin, the Neanderthal Putin with the coat robber neo-nazi thug with no military service from Wagner will atempt to bomb NATO equipment? I hope the ladies will forgive me but I am not someone that cares about his image, so i want to talk with @Nationalistgutter talk. Do you get an arousal when you know ilk like Putin will attempt to stop NATO equipment to enter so Ukraine can defend an invader? If it was your house, you would welcome help to push someone out. Nationalist - Athos - Redacted The triple team. 😄 Edited January 27 by Contrarian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 27 Report Share Posted January 27 (edited) 1 hour ago, Contrarian said: How is that make you feel? That your idol, Putin, the Neanderthal Putin with the coat robber neo-nazi thug with no military service from Wagner will atempt to bomb NATO equipment? I hope the ladies will forgive me but I am not someone that cares about his image, so i want to talk with @Nationalistgutter talk. Do you get an arousal when you know ilk like Putin will attempt to stop NATO equipment to enter so Ukraine can defend an invader? If it was your house, you would welcome help to push someone out. Nationalist - Athos - Redacted The triple team. 😄 What the hell is wrong with you? Of course they'll bomb the tanks. Just as soon as they cross the boarder to Ukraine, or are parked for training and maintenance. Its what any military would do, if they had the equipment to do so. Try stop being such a sopping wet dweeb and put your pants on. Edited January 27 by Nationalist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.