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War In Ukraine


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5 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The only acceptable outcome of this war that will prevent, not only a holocaust against the Ukrainian people, but the potential for WW3, is for Russia to be beaten so badly, they will not try to attack another country for a long time.

Excuse us for not rushing to nuclear WW3 while you scream and bellow for total war. You think the Rus is just going to allow themselves to be beaten and for the west to move in and take over? Man that is naive.

Also you need to brush up on your history there. The German speaking region was near Gdansk in Poland. AKA Danzig.

Hitler didn't need to invade Austria.

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Excuse us for not rushing to nuclear WW3 while you scream and bellow for total war. You think the Rus is just going to allow themselves to be beaten and for the west to move in and take over? Man that is naive.

Also you need to brush up on your history there. The German speaking region was near Gdansk in Poland. AKA Danzig.

Hitler didn't need to invade Austria.

I don't know how you could interpret what I wrote as rushing to WW3 or bellow for total war. I said we must give the Ukraine the tools they need to deliver a decisive defeat on the Russian invaders. If this results in a war between Russia and NATO, you and I will die unpleasantly. I would rather die peacefully in my sleep, not screaming in fear and terror like the passengers in his car.

What do you think is going to happen if the Ukrainians are defeated and Prigozhin's private army is turned loose on the population?

I do not advocate NATO moving into the Ukraine and taking over. If the Ukraine wants to apply for membership in NATO, they will need to expell the Russians first.

Your knowledge of history is probably better than mine but Hitler cited the fact that many Czechs living in the Sudetenland spoke German as his excuse to march in to Czechoslovakia. Are you saying the Germans did not take over Austria? 

Russia and the United States gave the Ukraine a guarantee of their independence and sovereignty. 

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4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Yet tell me...what makes you think Putin will attack a NATO nation?

If he thinks NATO will do nothing, will he be able to resist the temptation to get the glory of resoring the evil Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact? 

President Reagan's genius was his ability to convince the Soviets that he was crazy enough to destroy the planet if they stepped over the line. Chamberlain's folly was he could not convince Hitler that the west would stand up to his quest to restore Greater Germany. 

I don't want to die in a nuclear holocaust, but we need to convince President Putin that that is how he will die if he crosses the NATO boundary. The same goes for President Xi. 

Edited by Queenmandy85
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8 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And you think Putin will go after the Baltic states?

If they were to have won against the ukraine, undeniably.  That's why it's in the best interests of the US and nato to keep supporting the Ukraine.

It would appear the opponents of that have to lie and take statements out of context to make their point. My rule is that if you have to lie to make  a point, you probably don't have a very good point.   Obviously those opposed to supporting ukraine don't have a very good point.

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3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I don't know how you could interpret what I wrote as rushing to WW3 or bellow for total war.

He didn't. He knows you're right, so he's got to create a fake argument that he thinks he can win. He doesn't think he can argue against the actual point you made.

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3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

don't know how you could interpret what I wrote as rushing to WW3 or bellow for total war.

It seems very clear to me.-

5 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The only acceptable outcome of this war ... is for Russia to be beaten so badly,

And as I said, do you honestly believe they will accept defeat? If so you're completely mad.

Putin gave a recent speech in which he told the Russian public, to paraphrase, "The west wants to destroy Russia and completely tear us apart."

Before that happens, they are willing to annihilate the whole world. 

Make WW2 look like recess.

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7 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

And as I said, do you honestly believe they will accept defeat? If so you're completely mad.

They have accepted defeat many times in their history.

What they won't accept is a defeat they can't explain away for some reason.

If putin retires or dies then they'll call it off and blame it on his stupidity. If he lives they'll say they actually pulled their forces out because they succeeded in wiping out the nazi's they went in to get. (i mean, why not). THey may be given a hunk of land so they can pretend it was worth the loss of all those lives and all that equipment somehow.

But they absolutely will accept defeat. They have a history of it.

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6 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Why are you assisting Russian Communists in disinformation?

They found a video, took a few seconds, made it trendy on Twitter and today this report came out.

The possible bolshevik from Siberia probably posted in Australia too. Here in Canada, not so much, you did the work for him.

Did you enroll in that course or you are still with the mob for the likes and need to belong?

You really do just copy and paste well. But when you run off on your own, you make very little sense.

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6 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

If he thinks NATO will do nothing, will he be able to resist the temptation to get the glory of resoring the evil Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact? 

President Reagan's genius was his ability to convince the Soviets that he was crazy enough to destroy the planet if they stepped over the line. Chamberlain's folly was he could not convince Hitler that the west would stand up to his quest to restore Greater Germany. 

I don't want to die in a nuclear holocaust, but we need to convince President Putin that that is how he will die if he crosses the NATO boundary. The same goes for President Xi. 

So...you "assume" Putin would attack a NATO nation.

Understood.

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3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If they were to have won against the ukraine, undeniably.  That's why it's in the best interests of the US and nato to keep supporting the Ukraine.

It would appear the opponents of that have to lie and take statements out of context to make their point. My rule is that if you have to lie to make  a point, you probably don't have a very good point.   Obviously those opposed to supporting ukraine don't have a very good point.

I have a rule too.

It's dishonorable to support a war you have no intentions of fighting, just so you can boost your economy.

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6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

 

People are right, you only know how to copy and paste without any meaningful debate. Looks like it's time for Soros and the deep state to fire you as a useless forum bot.

?

 

Edited by athos
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2 hours ago, athos said:

The great illusion of the West has always been that it can defeat Russia

ROFLMAO!!!! THey couldn't beat UKRAINE! who was armed with american gear. You know who else has american gear? THE AMERICANS!! And lots of it :)

Sounds like the russians lulled them into a TRUE sense of security :) LOL

Forget the Americans, i'm seriously questioning if Russia could beat Canada at this point.

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6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I have a rule too.

No you don't. You have an unsupported and undefended opinion. Not the same.

6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It's dishonorable to support a war you have no intentions of fighting, just so you can boost your economy.

Well first off, it's pretty obvious that's not their only reason or even their main reason although it's definitely A reason. They're also getting invaluable information about the performance of their weapons and tactics which you  just can't get outside of real conflict and they're totally depleating and weakening a hostile rival nation both militarily, economically AND in terms of world prestige.

and second off, Why? If someone is being attacked by a hostile and aggressive bully and you can help, and that help happens to have a benefit for your industries, then why wouldn't you?

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3 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

It seems very clear to me.-

And as I said, do you honestly believe they will accept defeat? If so you're completely mad.

Putin gave a recent speech in which he told the Russian public, to paraphrase, "The west wants to destroy Russia and completely tear us apart."

Before that happens, they are willing to annihilate the whole world. 

Make WW2 look like recess.

Putin is doing a good job of destroying Russia all by himself, he doesn't need the West's help. Ukraine does.

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Some interesting results in the latest canadian poll on the subject:

Quote

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/majority-canadians-support-ukraine-poll

Majority of Canadians want Ukraine to win war, but are less supportive of military aid: poll

Nearly three quarters of Canadians would like to see Ukraine win the war but only about a third think Canada should provide more military equipment

 

There's only a tiny fraction who want russia to win :) 

But people seem to be getting tired of spending money on it. They don't want to buy weapons as much, they don't want to pay for immigrants as much. I think that probably has more to do with people being afraid of problems here and not getting services for our own people,

 

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9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No you don't. You have an unsupported and undefended opinion. Not the same.

Well first off, it's pretty obvious that's not their only reason or even their main reason although it's definitely A reason. They're also getting invaluable information about the performance of their weapons and tactics which you  just can't get outside of real conflict and they're totally depleating and weakening a hostile rival nation both militarily, economically AND in terms of world prestige.

and second off, Why? If someone is being attacked by a hostile and aggressive bully and you can help, and that help happens to have a benefit for your industries, then why wouldn't you?

Why wouldn't I? How many reasons would you like?

https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-moments/wounded-vets-imagery/

A wife, 2 kids and a baby on the way.

THIS...my friend...is why war is not to be used as an economic solution.

So I would ask any war veteran reading this...

'Is it honorable for a nation to send troops to war, so the economy improves?'

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10 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Why wouldn't I? How many reasons would you like?

One will be sufficient if you can actually articulate it and it's compelling.

Quote

A wife, 2 kids and a baby on the way.

And? That doesn't explain anything about why you wouldn't help someone in need.  It's not like we're going to war. And the chances of a wider conflict go up if the russians have an easy win.  Sooooooo.....

I assume you don't want to raise your children when they come to believe that if someone needs help it's best to stand idly by.

10 hours ago, Nationalist said:

THIS...my friend...is why war is not to be used as an economic solution.

That's not a reason at all. That's just a statement that you've got a family.  That might be an argument why you woudln't want them involved in ANY war but it wouldn't even begin to explain why specifically war shouldn't have an economic benefit to those who aren't participating in it.

10 hours ago, Nationalist said:

So I would ask any war veteran reading this...

'Is it honorable for a nation to send troops to war, so the economy improves?'

Why? We haven't sent any troops to war. 

Maybe you should ask any war veteran reading this, if your country sent you to war and you had no equipment, would you hope a friendly nation would lend you the equipment you needed to defend your homeland?  That's actually a thing that's happening.

Edited by CdnFox
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UKRAINIANS WILL NOT GO TO SURE DEATH:
Military personnel of the Armed Forces of Ukraine often prefer to surrender to Russian forces rather than go to certain death. Entire units sometimes lay down their weapons.

 

 

Edited by athos
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Zelensky saying that the USA is going to have to send their daughters and sons to fight in Ukraine. An USA oficial saying there's doubt if Ukraine is going to be able to launch a counter-offensive. Translation: Ukraine does not have contingency to fight Russia anymore.

 

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