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War In Ukraine


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37 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Assume whatever you like clown-boy. It is one of your only tools.

So you don't have an answer?  You called me a dimwit for repeating something from the article you posted, which you moronically said was false.  I'd be combative too if I embarrassed myself every time I opened my mouth.  

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18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

So you don't have an answer?  You called me a dimwit for repeating something from the article you posted, which you moronically said was false.  I'd be combative too if I embarrassed myself every time I opened my mouth.  

OK, oh thou of low wattage. 

I took the time to wade through the thread, to figure out what you're crowing about and to my surprise, you've managed to conflate 2 arguments. 

You posted this drivel...

" they closed ranks in 2022 and demonstrated more solidarity than ever, choosing to endure short-term economic hardship in order to thwart Putin's naked aggression.  "

I responded with links that show your assumption is...drivel. however, I did mention the Dutch farmers, which obviously added a level of complexity that your mind isn't capable of dealing with.

So you posted this...

"

So European farmers complaining about rising prices and protesting proves what, exactly?  That the EURO is falling apart, or that people think it's useless?     

Here's an actual source that gives a picture of popular support for the EU, from the same place you cited:

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/support-eu-membership-highest-15-years-survey-finds-2022-06-22/

Highest in 15 years!"

And I called you a dimwit because the Dutch farmers...and a lot of farmers all around Europe, are protesting being told they can't be farmers anymore. Something I'd figured even the dimmest bulb would have known.

Alas.. I was wrong.

So...in all fairness I should concede half a point to you. I will try to be much more blatant for you, so you can remain in your state of dimmness and don't get all confused by the complexities of world events and the English language.

Edited by Nationalist
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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

You posted this drivel...

" they closed ranks in 2022 and demonstrated more solidarity than ever, choosing to endure short-term economic hardship in order to thwart Putin's naked aggression.  "

It's not drivel, because it's supported by reality:  

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/support-eu-membership-highest-15-years-survey-finds-2022-06-22/

Support for the EU is the highest it's been in 15 years, which directly contradicts with your hope/belief/desire about weakness in the EU.      

Your counter-point is that farmers are protesting???   

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

And I called you a dimwit because the Dutch farmers...and a lot of farmers all around Europe, are protesting being told they can't be farmers anymore. Something I'd figured even the dimmest bulb would have known.

Cool story, except it's not actually true. Here's what you actually said:

dimwit.thumb.png.7f2ad16a3ef57cd7b127564aed21368a.png

So not only did your own source directly contradict you, your revised version of this exchange is also retarded, because nobody anywhere, ever, told Dutch farmers they couldn't be farmers.  ? 

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4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

It's not drivel, because it's supported by reality:  

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/support-eu-membership-highest-15-years-survey-finds-2022-06-22/

Support for the EU is the highest it's been in 15 years, which directly contradicts with your hope/belief/desire about weakness in the EU.      

Your counter-point is that farmers are protesting???   

Cool story, except it's not actually true. Here's what you actually said:

dimwit.thumb.png.7f2ad16a3ef57cd7b127564aed21368a.png

So not only did your own source directly contradict you, your revised version of this exchange is also retarded, because nobody anywhere, ever, told Dutch farmers they couldn't be farmers.  ? 

Like I said...sorry I assumed you have some knowledge of the situation.

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The fighting in Soledar is interesting because it's not a particularly important town, with its strategic significance mostly being its proximity to Bakhmut, which itself isn't itself strategically important.  The focus here seems to be that the Wagner Group has focused its strength there, hoping to demonstrate its ability to capture territory where the rest of the Russian Armed forces have failed.  

The focus on Bakhmut has mostly puzzled Ukrainian generals and western observers. 

Interesting news for me this week is how NATO seems to be sending heavier and heavier equipment to Ukraine now.  Last week they announced infantry fighting vehicles like the Bradley and Marder were being sent, followed by french light tanks.  The next shoe to drop will be Main Battle Tanks, with Britain looking to potentially send Challenger 2's and Poland hoping to send Leopard 2 systems.  The Russians do not have a match for these vehicle, and legacy equipment like their T-72's have proven woefully inadequate against 3rd generation tanks like the Challenger or the Abrams.   

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Soledar is lost. Azovstal and Artyomovsk also are falling.                                                                             Zaluzni asked Zelenskiy to evacuate the army while there is still something to evacuate.

Edited by athos
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Wagner published an advertisement for volunteers, the conditions are more than tempting

The private military company "Wagner" of Russian businessman Yevgeny Prigozhin published an advertisement for new volunteers. Judging by the ad that started circulating on the Telegram network, as well as the official ad on the website shvk-wagner.ru. The conditions are few: volunteers must be between the ages of 22 and 50, they must not be citizens of Ukraine, any of the EU or NATO alliance countries and they must be healthy. All other passports are, they say, welcome.    If among the applicants there are those who were convicted of sexual crimes, terrorism or drug trafficking, such candidates will be immediately rejected, the advertisement says. This category includes all those with serious illnesses, as well as those who are being treated for drug addiction.
The monthly salary is 3,200 euros, and one who stands out and shows good results expects additional benefit. In some cases, it can amount to a  15,000 euros.
The length of military service, as stated, is determined individually at the very beginning, before signing the contract. Fighters will have the right to a paid holiday, but also a guaranteed high-paying job in case they are unable to carry out tasks at the front due to some of the injuries. If they are no longer able to work after the army, candidates can be sure that they will receive a monthly allowance every month that will allow them to survive.
None of the fighters "will be left to their fate and will not be left without the help and financial resources necessary to support their families.
In case of death, the family receives five million rubles (about 66,000 euros), the company covers all the costs of burial and transportation of the body, while the children are provided with assistance in enrolling in colleges and other educational institutions.

About training                                                                                                                                                                                          Candidates do not need to have any previous military experience, and should not be afraid of disturbing more experienced fighters. The main thing is that those who come forward are really interested in learning, that they are patriots and that they are strong in spirit - the Wagnerites will teach them everything else, the authors of the ad promise.
The members of the Wagner group will have the most modern clothes and equipment, and the new ones among them, as the website says, can expect to become part of an extremely efficient team made up of experienced warriors.
In addition to constant military training and checks, soldiers will be given the opportunity to advance in the service.                                                                                                                                

The best of them expect a significantly higher salary, as well as awards, which are no less important than state ones.
Initial training will last two weeks. After that, the candidates are evaluated, and, if the senior associates judge that one of them is not ready to be sent to the front, they undergo additional training until they reach a satisfactory level of readiness.
Soldiers will learn more about air defense, diversion and countermeasures, artillery warfare, intelligence activities, drones, frontier communications, radio-electronic warfare, armored vehicles and other important topics.
Wagner is currently looking for volunteers for almost all positions, and training for them is also possible if needed.
All those who want to contribute with some kind of medical work (doctors, operating nurses, psychologists, etc.), that is also possible.

 

 

 

 

Edited by athos
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13 hours ago, Contrarian said:

There is tension reported between the leader of Wagner and Russian military. 

Hey man, I appreciate that you're interested in this topic, but we can find all of this info if we want online.  I read up on it all before I got to bed most nights. 

It's hard to have much of a discussion when the entire page is just walls of links and video captions.  If there's something you find particularly interesting, give us YOUR take and provide sources to back it up. No offense intended...

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Britain to send Challenger 2 tanks and artillery to Ukraine.

 

Pretty good tank

Quote

During the 2003 invasion of Iraq, the Challenger 2 tanks suffered no tank losses to Iraqi fire. In one encounter within an urban area, a Challenger 2 came under attack from irregular forces with machine guns and rocket propelled grenades. The driver's sight was damaged and while attempting to back away under the commander's directions, the other sights were damaged and the tank threw its tracks entering a ditch. It was hit by 14 rocket propelled grenades from close range and a MILAN anti-tank missile.[44] The crew survived, safe within the tank until it was recovered for repairs, the worst damage being to the sighting system. It was back in operation six hours later. According to British army, one Challenger 2 operating near Basra survived being hit by 70 RPGs in another incident.[45]

 

Edited by Aristides
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Is it worth such a fight just to claim your national independence? How far does that ideology go. It might be better to live in a moderately corrupt society run by a separate, elite entity, where your citizens are financially obligated to support that entity and its other subsidiary states.

In other words Canada. ;) 

But now that practically the whole world is involved, Ukrainians certainly have less self-determination. They are the latest playground in the conflict of superpowers.

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1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

Question: How would you know? You lived your entire life here so you know nothing about the other side, to live in a real state surveillance state. 

You complain about your bubble,  don't believe me? The best way to see the difference is practical experience. Fly over to Minsk and live amongst the "the other side" for 1 month. I have an intuition you would be running back at the Canadian embassy asking for Trudeau to take you back. 

Of course the Western system is not perfect, but at least here, it allows you the conditions to succeed and have financial freedom through a career not based on political or state security connections. Here, you study or/and work hard, private companies fight for you, and don't care about your political connections for promotions and raises in salaries. If you work hard, in my view, here, the top provides you a platform to do more and succeed. Also, starting a business, so much easier. In a Putinistic system, 1 wrong disloyal move, does not matter even if it's in the private sector, you are marked and you won't get far. It is a system that sacrifices intellectual progress and financial success for state security ran by a few former thinkers of the KGB, some old men. 

This is one, Lazar Lazarevich Matveev, Putin visits him yearly: 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ-3dyiH8G38LI09jcpkIw

Much of this is off topic. Prove I've only lived here my entire life. 

My message is primarily to protect Canada from descending into Russia. Or the Ukraine, or China. Or America for that matter.

Ukraine existed under USSR for a long time, and things were peaceful. If I lived there I might prefer that time to raise my family, better than what we have now.

That could be debatable, but the constant influx of cash and weaponry certainly ensures a prolonged war. 

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2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Much of this is off topic. Prove I've only lived here my entire life. 

My message is primarily to protect Canada from descending into Russia. Or the Ukraine, or China. Or America for that matter.

Ukraine existed under USSR for a long time, and things were peaceful. If I lived there I might prefer that time to raise my family, better than what we have now.

That could be debatable, but the constant influx of cash and weaponry certainly ensures a prolonged war. 

Obviously Ukrainians want the be their own country. Ukraine never voluntarily joined the Russian or Soviet empires.

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18 hours ago, Contrarian said:

If I want to do it via copy paste, I will do it via copy paste. Is not like I am swearing or using subhuman language.

Nobody said you are, but if all you're doing is copy and pasting then I'd say you're not really communicating anything.  If someone wants to read about this stuff, they're not going to use a search engine and read what they find rather than come here to read someone's curated bulletin-board of news.  I'm very interested in this topic, but I must admit I'm just skipping through these posts to see if anyone's said anything new.  

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Is it worth such a fight just to claim your national independence? How far does that ideology go. 

It's up to the Ukrainians to decide how far and how long they want to push this fight.  

4 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

But now that practically the whole world is involved, Ukrainians certainly have less self-determination. They are the latest playground in the conflict of superpowers.

Maybe Russia shouldn't have invaded then?  ?‍♂️

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30 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

It's up to the Ukrainians to decide how far and how long they want to push this fight.

Is it really? I already explained why I think it's different this time.

Kinda like the US taking a back seat during WWII, but happy to provide enough resources to keep the fighting going.

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8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Is it really? I already explained why I think it's different this time.

Kinda like the US taking a back seat during WWII, but happy to provide enough resources to keep the fighting going.

Yes it is, Ukrainians are doing the fighting and dieing and they aren't doing it for the US.

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44 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Not overtly, but it benefits the US. Classic superpower war by proxy. They can keep the war going for years.

Ukraine is fighting for its life. It's people are fighting and dieing to save their countrty. To say it is for the US is an insult to every Ukrainian.

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You people are looking at this from a geo-political perspective, which is at the top level and most obvious. Yes, we all know about those things. What I'm suggesting is from a very personal individual perspective, especially for people who are raising families, they of course just want the war to end. It may not matter what flag is flying over their parliament, to them it's an abstract concept. They need safety and food, basic necessities. I bet many of them are willing to even learn Russian...   ;)

But not die for some ideal, that is largely important to whom? I told you whom. More than the Ukraine. More than their own interests, force-feeding them on war because it benefits the great powers.

Is it right for other nations to involve themselves in such as way as to keep elevating the conflict, or should they be only involved in doing the opposite? That is, f*ckin de-escalation.

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