Hypocrisy of "My Body, My Choice!"

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

I happen to think they're wrong about that, because of what's happened in England.

Well that's great. I suggest writing a letter  to the Premier. I'll just keep quoting from the official sources, if you don't mind.

The debate on mandates isn't even about vaccine, that's where you've been taking off the rails. It is about giving the government authority where none is needed. Education and medical advice will bring about just as good voluntary compliance, not government chavatos telling us what we must do for our health.

I want my family doctor to be the one who says "Yes, you should get it." or to another, "No, you're allergic to the components as we have seen before. I have to write you an exemption."

Not Doug Ford ordering me to. Not Doug Ford scrutinizing my health records and status and deciding, unilaterally, what I have to do. The reason why probably escapes you, and you probably think I am talking about myself here, as though this was my problem. I am not, and it's not.

[taxme]

9 hours ago, betsy said:

Most politicians are in it for.....................themselves.  Not that I'm making excuses for them, but that's just the sad reality of it.

Gone are the days when there were those who truly want to serve the country and make a difference............when leaving a respectable legacy truly matters.  Gone are the days when ethics rule - politicians behaving unethically voluntarily resigns. 

Lol - now, the motto is, "never admit it.  Spin, spin, spin."  Oh, and,  "over my dead body!" ?

Those few who start having noble ideas are easily swallowed up by the rotten environment of politics today............. or, thrown out.  They don't last.

 

 

 

Other than for a very tiny minority of politicians who do care about Canada, pretty much the rest of those traitors to Canada are all going along to get along. They lack any compassion or care about the people who pay their salaries and prefer to try and stay on the side of their communist globalist leaders of their political party and special interest minority groups. 

We do not have freedom loving politicians anymore. We now have only communist tyrannical dictators running Canada today. This covid bullshit has now given those scumbags all that they needed to begin the transition from Canada staying a freedom loving country and who are now trying to turn Canada into a communist dictatorship country.  

The only political party left to vote for in Canada is the People's Party of Canada, a real and true conservative political party. They are against all of these covid communist like restrictions that are constantly being dumped and forced on we the people. These communist liars and thieves and cheats needs to be turfed out in the next election. To vote for them is to be voting for your end of your freedoms as we once knew and had just 18 months ago. 

It's probably our last chance to save Canada and to keep our freedoms is to vote for the PPC party. I will be doing just that. I hope that those who care for Canada do the same thing also. It's your call soon. Just saying. ?

[betsy]

6 minutes ago, taxme said:

Other than for a very tiny minority of politicians who do care about Canada, pretty much the rest of those traitors to Canada are all going along to get along. They lack any compassion or care about the people who pay their salaries and prefer to try and stay on the side of their communist globalist leaders of their political party and special interest minority groups. 

We do not have freedom loving politicians anymore. We now have only communist tyrannical dictators running Canada today. This covid bullshit has now given those scumbags all that they needed to begin the transition from Canada staying a freedom loving country and who are now trying to turn Canada into a communist dictatorship country.  

The only political party left to vote for in Canada is the People's Party of Canada, a real and true conservative political party. They are against all of these covid communist like restrictions that are constantly being dumped and forced on we the people. These communist liars and thieves and cheats needs to be turfed out in the next election. To vote for them is to be voting for your end of your freedoms as we once knew and had just 18 months ago. 

It's probably our last chance to save Canada and to keep our freedoms is to vote for the PPC party. I will be doing just that. I hope that those who care for Canada do the same thing also. It's your call soon. Just saying. ?

Depends what angle we go for.  I can understand where you're coming from.

My aim right now is to unseat Trudeau.  Another term of Trudeau would mean there won't be a Canada worth saving anymore.  He means to plunge us right into socialism!

I can deal with the "other" later.

Edited September 2, 2021 by betsy

[dialamah]

53 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Education and medical advice will bring about just as good voluntary compliance, 

Apparently not.

54 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

I want my family doctor to be the one who says "Yes, you should get it." or to another, "No, you're allergic to the components as we have seen before. I have to write you an exemption."

 Fair enough; have you talked to him/her about it?  How about the taxme's of the world, how likely do you suppose he'd be persuaded by his doc?

 

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Apparently not.

 Fair enough; have you talked to him/her about it?  How about the taxme's of the world, how likely do you suppose he'd be persuaded by his doc?

 

I only talk about facts, not opinions.

He can be tolerated because they are few in number. Quite a number of people who are not interested in being vaccinated is because they work with people who have all sorts of illnesses all the time. They have the knowledge of how to do it without endangering themselves. They have done it all their lives. It becomes a lifestyle habit, not even just at work. Thus they are not part of what should be considerd the people at risk, by virtue of their profession. That includes nurses and doctors, many of whom have years of experience.

That is anecdotal but if you insist I can pull some links out of my ass. then you will do likewise,, so let's just accept that reason and logic should prevail in our decision making. Not experimentation...

 

[myata]

11 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Apparently not.

What is that statement based on, any facts or evidence? The numbers are known and up to now they can be attributed to voluntary compliance. Are you expecting perfect 100% compliance? At this point the question can be asked, is it genuinely about safety and epidemics, or about looking for and appointing scapegoats because something is not working as expected and we haven't a clue why.

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

What is that statement based on, any facts or evidence? 

Do you not read the posts here?  Haven't you seen or heard about various protests by people who think covid/masks/lockdowns/vaccines are nothing more than a plot to impose communism or fascism on the world, even where it already exists?  

[dialamah]

19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

only talk about facts, not opinions.

So ... you only want your doc to tell you to get a vaccine, but because it's only their opinion and not (your definition of) facts, you wouldn't pay any attention to them if they did?  Do I have that right?

20 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

so let's just accept that reason and logic should prevail in our decision making

I already think my reason and logic is better than yours, so methinks the conversation will simply become  circular.  I suggest we stop now while we're ahead.

FWIW, I think the vaccine passport should only apply to large events - like sporting events, concerts, some weddings, etc. - where hundreds or thousands or 10s of thousands of people attend.  I don't think it should be imposed in retail, restaurant or businesses such as lawyer's offices or doctors offices - unless the business itself wants to take that on.   

[Goddess]

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

FWIW, I think the vaccine passport should only apply to large events - like sporting events, concerts, some weddings, etc. - where hundreds or thousands or 10s of thousands of people attend.  I don't think it should be imposed in retail, restaurant or businesses such as lawyer's offices or doctors offices - unless the business itself wants to take that on. 

Agreed.  The issues I see popping up though are, vaccine efficacy is very low. 4-6 months. And you can still catch and carry/spread covid when vaxxed.  I see people buying a ticket to a major event and then being denied entry because their vaccine passport "expired" 2 days before. 

I don't see the passports being any safer than masking, washing hands regularly and social distancing.  I think it's just the illusion of safety, that the chicken little crowd wants.

[CITIZEN_2015]

44 minutes ago, dialamah said:

FWIW, I think the vaccine passport should only apply to large events - like sporting events, concerts, some weddings, etc. - where hundreds or thousands or 10s of thousands of people attend.  I don't think it should be imposed in retail, restaurant or businesses such as lawyer's offices or doctors offices - unless the business itself wants to take that on.   

It is more important that vaccine passports be applied to dense gatherings like bars and nightclubs where 100+ people gather in small space talking and dancing close to each other as well as restaurants.

[Aristides]

30 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Agreed.  The issues I see popping up though are, vaccine efficacy is very low. 4-6 months. And you can still catch and carry/spread covid when vaxxed.  I see people buying a ticket to a major event and then being denied entry because their vaccine passport "expired" 2 days before. 

I don't see the passports being any safer than masking, washing hands regularly and social distancing.  I think it's just the illusion of safety, that the chicken little crowd wants.

I think it is becoming pretty clear that with so many still unvaccinated, the requirement for masks at indoor public places will be with us for some time, as will periodic boosters.

[myata]

53 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Do you not read the posts here?  Haven't you seen or heard about various protests by people who think covid/masks/lockdowns/vaccines are nothing more than a plot to impose communism or fascism on the world, even where it already exists?  

The statement was about voluntary compliance and the comment was "apparently not". Apparently not, what? Over 90% of eligible population with strong protection, including very high level of voluntary vaccinations as can be seen immediately from the published numbers? Or apparently not 100% absolute and perfect compliance like in a communist or a Nazi state (this is not a comparison, only a quantitative similarity)?

[myata]

The repeated references to unvaccinated without any evidence, really and seriously smack of propaganda directed scapegoating. It was shown that the numbers of unprotected population by now have to be a tiny fraction of the population and it's hardly believable to entirely unbelievable that several hundred thousand could produce an infectious wave with the same counts as twelve million a year earlier.

Why does it smell like another big stretch and distraction? Like something big is missing from the picture? A few months, or years from now we may even find out what.

Edited September 2, 2021 by myata

[WestCanMan]

The vaccination passports would make sense if unvaccinated people could spread covid and vaccinated people couldn't, but vaccinated people are just as capable of spreading covid as anyone.

In this idiotic "vaccination passport" scenario, vaxxed people get to go out in public and spread the disease and unvaxxed people still face the same chances of getting infected. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The vaccination passports would make sense if unvaccinated people could spread covid and vaccinated people couldn't, but vaccinated people are just as capable of spreading covid as anyone.

Not true. Unvaccinated people are 22 time more likely to be infected therefore they have a much greater chance of infecting others for this simple reason. 

[myata]

It looks like something important is missing from the picture. And the longer we look the other way and pretend that it's just them the sore scapegoats, the harder it's going to hit eventually, because the real problem is overlooked, not understood and not solved and not even attempted. And so, by October or November either the cases would stabilize and the hysteria subside, or it would be the time for a change in the direction of the march and the muzak. That makes it interesting to watch.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

So ... you only want your doc to tell you to get a vaccine, but because it's only their opinion and not (your definition of) facts, you wouldn't pay any attention to them if they did?  Do I have that right?

You got a lotta questions, lady. You're just dying to find out if I am vaxxed or not, right... admit it.

Let's just say my inclination is to be a conscientious objector and not cooperate, and certainly if I do cooperate it's not immediately. You want me to cooperate, you have to prove yourself to me first.

 

[Army Guy]

1 hour ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Not true. Unvaccinated people are 22 time more likely to be infected therefore they have a much greater chance of infecting others for this simple reason. 

You can play with numbers all day, but the fact remains that in Ontario almost a full 1/3 of those that have contracted Covid are people that have had 2 doses of vaccines, according to the stats your better off if you have only received one shot... See what i mean numbers can be difficult to interrupt, or used to shape a different story. What the numbers do tell me , is that no one is safe and we should all still be in lock down, with all the measures in place...But we have seen how that is playing out in other countries, not well.  Ontario's numbers have not been this high since June. and yet almost 75 % of the population have been given the full vaccine( x 2 Shots)... and those numbers do not take into account those that have recovered.... So why are the numbers so high despite having way more people with full shots....The numbers do not add up...

 

[Winston]

2 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Not true. Unvaccinated people are 22 time more likely to be infected therefore they have a much greater chance of infecting others for this simple reason. 

Vaccinated people can be infected. Unvaccinated people can be infected. 

Unvaccinated people have a greater chance of being infected than vaccinated people. 

"Unvaccinated people are 22 time more likely to be infected therefore they have a much greater chance of infecting others for this simple reason. " -We are forgetting one major point. The individual must be infected, if they are not infected there are no grounds for transmission.  If an individual is infected they can and should self isolate, preventing infection. 

most unvaccinated people are not infected, most vaccinated people are not infected. Both can be infected, but we have the choice at this moment, either we assume everyone is infected or we do not assume everyone is infected.

If the goal is to have a society where only uninfected people are allowed into public spaces, the only option would be to test all individuals upon entrance into the public spaces. This means vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals would get a quick test before entering a public space or possibly their homes. 

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

So ... you only want your doc to tell you to get a vaccine, but because it's only their opinion and not (your definition of) facts, you wouldn't pay any attention to them if they did?  Do I have that right?

I have to ask ,has all the governments information, been based on science or medical facts, and have those facts been 100 % correct. The reason i ask is i know of dozens of mistakes that have been made or made then reversed then made again, because the facts were based on someone's best guesses. and they are still being made this way...or decisions are made on what they think the population will react to the least...

lets take a trip down memory lane, we are in Somalia, and a new untested drug call mefloquine was thought to be the next best drug to combat malaria it was totally safe, approved by our Health care institutions at the time, thousands of troops would be the the lab rats... it was to be taken once a week, huge horse pills, in our camp that was every Tuesday, or would later be known as Psycho Tuesdays because the entire camp would be on this drug that induced very vivid nightmares, remember everyone was armed to the teeth, with access to every wpn system we had in the military... Years later many soldiers would end up suing the military for it's deadly side effects such as suicide, and many other medical effects on the body... And yet we were told it is safe it has passed all protocols... and yet nobody could explain every Tuesday and the severe nightmares, severe panic attacks, etc... you would be lucky to get any sleep... most of us slept with a loaded rifle on the side of my cot safety on, and a loaded pistol safety off under my pillow... how no one got shot is a miracle. 

History is also full of other examples of government standing up and saying this medication is perfectly safe, it's good for you... and yet we wonder why we have some people with doubts about how effective or how safe are these medications, and to add further complications anyone that does not want the vaccinations are treated like a someone with aids...

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

9 hours ago, betsy said:

Depends what angle we go for.  I can understand where you're coming from.

My aim right now is to unseat Trudeau.  Another term of Trudeau would mean there won't be a Canada worth saving anymore.  He means to plunge us right into socialism!

I can deal with the "other" later.

there isn't a Canada worth saving now

and that won't change if Justin O'Toole is elected either

Canada can't be saved

Edited September 3, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[betsy]

So what happens when another mutation of this virus wouldn't respond to this vaccine?

Roll out another vaccine?  Let's not forget that this covid vaccine came out real fast.   We don't have no idea if it will have any negative side-effects 5 years from now.

Imho, we better learn to live with these viruses.....just as we much as we have to learn to adapt to a new environment (climate change). 

Edited September 3, 2021 by betsy

[myata]

This is just the latest, and to remind, we are almost exactly twenty years past SARS and well into the second year of the Covid story:

1. Canada issues travel advisory to avoid non essential travel until further notice

2. Canada welcomes fully vaccinated tourists from the world.

After all the puzzles and conundrums of the last year and this one, what can you make of this new idea? Can any sense be made of it, on the second year, and into the third decade?

[dialamah]

4 hours ago, myata said:

we are almost exactly twenty years past SARS

This horse is already dead.

[WestCanMan]

20 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Unvaccinated people are 22 time more likely to be infected

?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/07/30/provincetown-covid-outbreak-vaccinated/

The CDC thinks that vaccinated and unvaccinated people carry covid at the same rate. 3/4 of the people in Mass were vaxxed, and 3/4 of the people in Mass who were infected were vaxxed.

There is also a large study out of Israel showing that people who previously had covid do far better than people who are dbl vaxxed.

I might have had covid last January but I never got tested so I don't know. I remember eating a small bag of jalapeno chips and not being able to taste them, but I didn't get very sick at the time so I didn't think it was the mighty covid. That was before I knew about 'loss of the sense of taste' being a covid symptom, as well as the part about 'remaining asymptomatic'.

I'd actually like to get a test to see if I've had it. I suspect that I did but I'd like to know for sure.