Covid Is Turning Us Into a Socialist/Fascist Country

[Shady]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Flu deaths are down, as are other communicable diseases - mitigating for Covid transmission also mitigates for other diseases.  

It helps that it’s not flu season.

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

I appreciate your honesty eyeball. 

It was just a thought. So you think it's possible? 

[Shady]

1 hour ago, Cannucklehead said:

Covid has already killed almost 160,000 people in the u.s. in just over half a year now.  

 

Still want to compare it to the flu?  

It is somewhat comparable in that a bad flu season, with no flu shots available and little initial knowledge of treatment.  That’s why in the United States, the death rate now for covid is 85% lower than in March and April.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

I'm curious about this.  why would you limit your assessment to one day only.

I don't know what the death rate from Covid-19 is, but the only way to accurately assess it would be to compare the number of deaths from the  disease to the number of known outcomes (dead or recovered)

Notwithstanding all the unknowns, of course.

Pick any other day you want sap. 

If there are 2.2M people known to be infected right now and only 209 died yesterday, what does that tell you? How long will it take for a significant number of people to die at that rate?

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It was just a thought. So you think it's possible? 

I believe that you think it's possible. 

[Guest]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

Pick any other day you want sap. 

If there are 2.2M people known to be infected right now and only 209 died yesterday, what does that tell you? How long will it take for a significant number of people to die at that rate?

Like I said, you can't get a death rate by comparing to infected people.  You have no idea how many of them are going to recover or die.  You have to compare deaths to known outcomes.

A glance at the Hopkins Dashboard shows the death rate to be very approximately 6% at the moment.

 

[Cannucklehead]

20 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Pick any other day you want sap. 

If there are 2.2M people known to be infected right now and only 209 died yesterday, what does that tell you? How long will it take for a significant number of people to die at that rate?

Yesterday was 452.  Yeah that's not as much as the 1,207 the day before but that doesn't mean there wont be higher numbers tomorrow.  

Who knows, maybe the numbers will trend back down and people in the u.s. can go back to some sense of normal.  Maybe it will go higher.  

 

 

[WestCanMan]

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Like I said, you can't get a death rate by comparing to infected people.  You have no idea how many of them are going to recover or die.  You have to compare deaths to known outcomes.

A glance at the Hopkins Dashboard shows the death rate to be very approximately 6% at the moment.

You're talking about the RAW case fatality rate, which only takes into account people who were known to have it, and their final outcome once they're virus free or deceased.

That stat doesn't take into account any of the people who are or were infected by the virus and didn't get sick enough to go to the doctor. In the case of C19 that's a lot. 

The official guesstimate is that the actual CFR is about 1.5% but they can really only guess at the actual number of people infected vs the deceased. It could be as low as .1 or .5%.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're talking about the RAW case fatality rate, which only takes into account people who were known to have it, and their final outcome once they're virus free or deceased.

That stat doesn't take into account any of the people who are or were infected by the virus and didn't get sick enough to go to the doctor. In the case of C19 that's a lot. 

The official guesstimate is that the actual CFR is about 1.5% but they can really only guess at the actual number of people infected vs the deceased. It could be as low as .1 or .5%.

Yep, that's why I underlined "very", and in a recent post, said "Notwithstanding all the unknowns, of course".

That said, you compared 2.2 million infected people to 209 deaths and seemed to think it was telling.

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, Cannucklehead said:

Yesterday was 452.  Yeah that's not as much as the 1,207 the day before but that doesn't mean there wont be higher numbers tomorrow.  

Who knows, maybe the numbers will trend back down and people in the u.s. can go back to some sense of normal.  Maybe it will go higher.  

To put that number into perspective, 7,700 people die every day in the US, and 438 people die each day from respiratory diseases.

Covid is taking a lot people from the other totals, not a whole new group of people who wouldn't have otherwise died.

[Cannucklehead]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

To put that number into perspective, 7,700 people die every day in the US, and 438 people die each day from respiratory diseases.

Covid is taking a lot people from the other totals, not a whole new group of people who wouldn't have otherwise died.

So what your saying is that since the building is already on fire, let's just dump some more gas on it?  

 

Like I said earlier they are still adding regular deaths to the toll.  

[eyeball]

51 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I believe that you think it's possible. 

No I think it's at least as ludicrous as your obsession with a conspiracy that would require thousands of in-the-know operatives, years of planning and at a scale of coordinated execution approaching that of D-Day.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

It helps that it’s not flu season.

You didn't read the link, did you. The data is from January of this year, compared to the same time period in previous years.  They aren't comparing flu cases so far this year to all flu cases in other years.  

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I think it's at least as ludicrous as your obsession with a conspiracy that would require thousands of in-the-know operatives, years of planning and at a scale of coordinated execution approaching that of D-Day.

I think the planning and organization required to pull off a world wide pandemic in order to implement (Fascism? Socialism? Communism?) in Canada is well beyond the capabilities of our Government, or any government for that matter.  

Even if Canada isn't the sole target of this conspiracy, its hard to imagine that every government in the world agreed to this plan, allowing 100,000s of people to die and their economies to be severely impacted.  This plot would require the active participation of tens of thousands of people, from government leaders, to scientists, doctors and the media. And for what, exactly?   To make us wear masks and accept money to stay home.

[WestCanMan]

39 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That said, you compared 2.2 million infected people to 209 deaths and seemed to think it was telling.

It is very telling. 

A basic understanding of stats tells us that not all 2.2M got it yesterday. They all got it some point in the last 3 weeks, and there were also a lot of people who slid off of the 'infected' list over the past 3 weeks. 

Are you telling me that it wouldn't make a difference to you if 209 died out of 2.2M or if 18,000 people died out of 300,000 active cases? LMAO. 

We're dealing with a virus that doesn't affect children, barely affects young adults, makes middle-aged people somewhat sick, and has about a 3% death rate among the every elderly and very sick.  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Quote

6,072,729

Currently Infected Patients

6,007,994 (99%)

in Mild Condition

64,735 (1%)

Serious or Critica

Take as much time as you need to study that, and the whole time, try to remember that there are a lot more people who are infected but don't even know it, and a lot of people who are infected but aren't sick enough to go see a Dr. 

Wanna shut down your country for that? Should we be yelling at people with out-of-province plates because of that? 

We can take reasonable precautions without going chicken little. At some point the ratio of bankruptcies per covid death has to be taken into account, especially when you factor in that almost all of the deaths would have naturally occurred within the next 6 months anyways. These aren't 0-25 yr olds we're talking about. 

[PIK]

Well lets see if the numbers change after this long weekend.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

It is very telling. 

 

No it's not.  It's more meaningless than the numbers I quoted, which, as I mentioned at the time, were very much an approximation.

Still, not as meaningless as this:

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

especially when you factor in that almost all of the deaths would have naturally occurred within the next 6 months anyways. These aren't 0-25 yr olds we're talking about. 

 

[WestCanMan]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I think it's at least as ludicrous as your obsession with a conspiracy that would require thousands of in-the-know operatives, years of planning and at a scale of coordinated execution approaching that of D-Day.

I agree that mass-scale deception is always an unlikely scenario, but how else can you account for an org like the WHO, with a budget in the billions, primarily dedicated to virology and epidemiology, giving the entire world the exact wrong advice? This wasn't highly complicated advice, it's just basic common sense and common knowledge.

Don'y you think it's odd that the Dems and their minions think that protests are peaceful? 

Do you think it's odd that the Dems and CNN lied to their idiot followers for 2.5 years about Russian collusion and those morons still don't know wtf happened?

 

This didn't have to be planned in advance, it could just be a case of opportunity meets scum.

[Michael Hardner]

57 minutes ago, dialamah said:

And for what, exactly?   To make us wear masks and accept money to stay home.

The motive in these things is always a James Bond villain type plot.

[WestCanMan]

52 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

No it's not.  It's more meaningless than the numbers I quoted, which, as I mentioned at the time, were very much an approximation.

Still, not as meaningless as this:

 

Wow. You’re better off lying than just stating your honest opinions. You won’t lose as much respect. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Wow. You’re better off lying than just stating your honest opinions. You won’t lose as much respect. 

If it's your respect it won't matter much.  Especially as you prefer a lie.

[WestCanMan]

12 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If it's your respect it won't matter much.  Especially as you prefer a lie.

Here’s the deal sapper. Not even a liar would say what you just said because it was entirely stupid and it didn’t even make a point. 
 

“Dahhhh, there’s no difference between big numbers and small numbers.” Lol. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Here’s the deal sapper. Not even a liar would say what you just said because it was entirely stupid and it didn’t even make a point. 
 

“Dahhhh, there’s no difference between big numbers and small numbers.” Lol. 

Relative size doesn't matter to your point.  You cherry picked one day that suited your purpose.  Meaningless.  Like your conspiracy theories.

[Boges]

Where is this 209 figure coming from? 

Certainly not Worldometer. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

The actual number of deaths dropped to like 4 or 500 over the weekend. But if you look at trends, they always dip on the weekend. That can't be a reflection of less people dying over the weekend. Just that reporting is less on the weekend. 

The point being made, over and over again, is that the US still has been unable to clamp down on the virus and people are still dying at much higher rates than any other developed nation. Canada has lately been reporting daily deaths in the single digits. So even if you wanted to do a per capita comparison, the US would be regularly recording overwhelmingly more deaths. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

The point being made, over and over again, is that the US still has been unable to clamp down on the virus

 

The US is not trying to "clamp down"...it is trying to continue reopening the economy, schools, and other activities with the virus still being spread.