Army Guy Posted July 8, 2020 Report Share Posted July 8, 2020 (edited) 343 bil will be added to the national debt, Thats not including what the liberals have contributed to the debt already in the last 5 years of their reign another almost 100 bil, ya lets let that sink in for a minute they have almost doubled our national debt in 5 years.... And here is some more good news this is just a snap shot, this number could balloon to even higher, lets face it we all know it is going to get way higher, liberals have not told us the truth since they have been elected... some sources are expecting this number to go as high as plus 612 bil by 2021. Our credit rating has been lowered to AA rating, which translate into higher interest rates and more added debt... I think we all can agree that this number is staggering, but Justin has been handing out bils to major corporations, students, anyone and everything...is getting handouts...and what have we received for this vast amount of money....We still do not have a plan on how do we get our nation back up and running, " with out a plan we do not know the end costs" we still have not solved any of our old major problems, clan water for first nations, infrastructure projects, my favorite VETS benefits ....let alone the new ones that presented themselves during the pandemic...i mean if we are throwing away money atleast lets get some issues off the table For liberals this is going to be normal....no big deal... 343 bil is a huge deal, we all need to question where all this money is going, and to whom, i mean other than 900 mil to WE that is which could of almost gave vets everything they have asked for ....my great grand children are going to be shafted with this debt....your grand children are as well....It's time we toss these merry band of idiots out...... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/high-unemployment-343b-deficit-projected-in-liberals-fiscal-snapshot/ar-BB16uJ62?ocid=msedgntp https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-fiscal-snapshot-predicts-343-billion-deficit-as-bill-morneau-offers-little-intention-to-curb-spending Edited July 8, 2020 by Army Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 Most of those on the political left don't give a rat's ass about being fiscally responsible . Just keep spending and borrowing,no real long term vision there. Most Canadians seem to be asking only what the government can do for them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuebecOverCanada Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 I can't believe it. It's beyond repair. We're economically annihilated for at least 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 hours ago, Army Guy said: Our credit rating has been lowered to AA rating, which translate into higher interest rates and more added debt. So what? We'll be in the same fleet of lifeboats along with virtually every other nation on the planet, notwithstanding those who succumb to their fear about their debt and use it to browbeat their citizens into going over the wire in their war to save their economies. Those nations will be flailing around in the water for years trying to grow their way out of the mess they've panicked themselves into. Meanwhile we'll be ticking along and enjoying economic growth levels that are twice as good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: ... Meanwhile we'll be ticking along and enjoying economic growth levels that are twice as good. Not likely...Canada's economy was crashing even before the pandemic and crushing debt because of low commodity prices, rail protests, and capital flight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, ironstone said: Most of those on the political left don't give a rat's ass about being fiscally responsible . Sure we do, we just place more importance on people than money is all. Quote Just keep spending and borrowing,no real long term vision there. Most Canadians seem to be asking only what the government can do for them. The vision actually was to allow for an 18 month period for the development of a vaccine. You're suggesting we abandon everything we've already invested in getting there and consigning who knows how many people to dying for the economy instead? Fuck that, besides which Canadians shouldn't be expecting a handout they should be demanding compensation. This was not their fault. Somebody as hip as you are to fiscal responsibility should be able to see that without even having to think about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: Not likely...Canada's economy was crashing even before the pandemic and crushing debt because of low commodity prices, rail protests, and capital flight. You're full of shit. Canada went into this pandemic with the best GDP to debt ratio in the G7. Notwithstanding the fact virtually the entire planet was wallowing in the mud wrestling pit known as the global economy going into this. It's part and parcel of that unpreparedness thingy that's compounded the pandemic and our response to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, eyeball said: You're full of shit. Canada went into this pandemic with the best GDP to debt ratio in the G7. Notwithstanding the fact virtually the entire planet was wallowing in the mud wrestling pit known as the global economy going into this. It's part and parcel of that unpreparedness thingy that's compounded the pandemic and our response to it. You don't understand the difference between deficits, debt, or economic growth. Canada's economy had two months of negative economic growth because of factors completely unrelated to the pandemic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 32 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said: You don't understand the difference between deficits, debt, or economic growth. What I understand is that conservatives are obsessed with not creating more debt unless it comes to bailing out banksters or waging useless endless wars on fill-in-the blanks-here. Quote Canada's economy had two months of negative economic growth because of factors completely unrelated to the pandemic. So what, the entire global economy was starting to come apart at the seams. If you're suggesting we have to destroy the economy to save it fine. Human beings weren't meant to suffer a slow motion Apocalypse, it was supposed to go out with a bang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 minute ago, eyeball said: What I understand is that conservatives are obsessed with not creating more debt unless it comes to bailing out banksters or waging useless endless wars on fill-in-the blanks-here. See...you really don't understand deficits, debt, or economic growth...regardless of political ideology. Quote So what, the entire global economy was starting to come apart at the seams. If you're suggesting we have to destroy the economy to save it fine. Human beings weren't meant to suffer a slow motion Apocalypse, it was supposed to go out with a bang. Then stop bragging about GDP to debt ratios that you do not even understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 hours ago, Army Guy said: 343 bil will be added to the national debt I don't see you even mentioning the pandemic and unfavorable economic conditions in the past couple of years. What do you expect Trudeau to do; or you thought Scheer was going to do better ......for the imaginary country or its diverse citizens? Every country is going through the same thing, increasing their national debt, which begs the question who the debt is to. My guess? The Marsians. What is 343 billion? I can tell you exactly how much that is: 6,305 tons of gold. And the gold is in the ground like it never existed. Not a big deal. Get it out of the ground and pay the f* Marsians. This should somehow illustrate to you the pointlessness of your national debt worries. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 11 hours ago, Army Guy said: 343 bil will be added to the national debt, Thats not including what the liberals have contributed to the debt already in the last 5 years of their reign another almost 100 bil, ya lets let that sink in for a minute they have almost doubled our national debt in 5 years.... And here is some more good news this is just a snap shot, this number could balloon to even higher, lets face it we all know it is going to get way higher, liberals have not told us the truth since they have been elected... some sources are expecting this number to go as high as plus 612 bil by 2021. Our credit rating has been lowered to AA rating, which translate into higher interest rates and more added debt... I think we all can agree that this number is staggering, but Justin has been handing out bils to major corporations, students, anyone and everything...is getting handouts...and what have we received for this vast amount of money....We still do not have a plan on how do we get our nation back up and running, " with out a plan we do not know the end costs" we still have not solved any of our old major problems, clan water for first nations, infrastructure projects, my favorite VETS benefits ....let alone the new ones that presented themselves during the pandemic...i mean if we are throwing away money atleast lets get some issues off the table For liberals this is going to be normal....no big deal... 343 bil is a huge deal, we all need to question where all this money is going, and to whom, i mean other than 900 mil to WE that is which could of almost gave vets everything they have asked for ....my great grand children are going to be shafted with this debt....your grand children are as well....It's time we toss these merry band of idiots out...... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/high-unemployment-343b-deficit-projected-in-liberals-fiscal-snapshot/ar-BB16uJ62?ocid=msedgntp https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-fiscal-snapshot-predicts-343-billion-deficit-as-bill-morneau-offers-little-intention-to-curb-spending And.....the spending might not be over yet. I'm wondering why PBO was costing the basic income for all Canadians (for 6 months)? That might be on the horizon - we're really getting into socialism on the back of Covid-19. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
betsy Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) People are now getting used to this handout! Who's willing to work in lieu of freebie? To be well-provided for is quite intoxicating. Are we being groomed and conditioned for downright socialism? I fear the claw-back. Nothing is for free. Maybe......we'd eventually have to give up our properties? Everyone will be "equal?" Edited July 9, 2020 by betsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dialamah Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 hours ago, betsy said: People are now getting used to this handout! Who's willing to work in lieu of freebie? To be well-provided for is quite intoxicating. $2000.00 a month is not "well-provided for". Many people have monthly mortgage payments that are more than that, or rent that is half that and more. If their income has significantly reduced or disappeared due to Covid, $2000 a month might help them hang on a little longer, but thats about it. 2 hours ago, betsy said: Are we being groomed and conditioned for downright socialism? Ohhh, scary ... "downright" socialism! The bogeyman of the elite! The scourge of the massively wealthy! The great levelor of the politically powerful! No socialism allowed here, dammit! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 9 hours ago, eyeball said: So what? We'll be in the same fleet of lifeboats along with virtually every other nation on the planet, notwithstanding those who succumb to their fear about their debt and use it to browbeat their citizens into going over the wire in their war to save their economies. Those nations will be flailing around in the water for years trying to grow their way out of the mess they've panicked themselves into. Meanwhile we'll be ticking along and enjoying economic growth levels that are twice as good. You're not making any sense at all. Now people are panicking, I thought economic lockdowns were necessary because of COVID? So it was all just a panic? Interesting. Regardless, brushing aside the fact that we're going to be spending more and more money out of our budget on just paying interest on debt, is about as clueless and irresponsible as it gets. Especially if interest rates go back up in a few years. But I also thought you said things wouldn't go back to the way they were? Now you're saying it will and we'll be enjoying strong economic growth? You're all over the place buddy. Try and be at least a little consistent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted July 9, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, cougar said: I don't see you even mentioning the pandemic and unfavorable economic conditions in the past couple of years. What do you expect Trudeau to do; or you thought Scheer was going to do better ......for the imaginary country or its diverse citizens? Every country is going through the same thing, increasing their national debt, which begs the question who the debt is to. My guess? The Marsians. What is 343 billion? I can tell you exactly how much that is: 6,305 tons of gold. And the gold is in the ground like it never existed. Not a big deal. Get it out of the ground and pay the f* Marsians. This should somehow illustrate to you the pointlessness of your national debt worries. Good point, if this was all about fighting the pandemic, Justin has been throwing bags on money at everything....or do you guys miss everything in the media, how many bils went to charities, how many bils went to pay for Justins UN seat, How many bils went to students employment , how much is going to students volunteer work, where hundreds of these position don't even exist, not to mention its volunteer work if your getting paid it not volunteer work is it, how many bils went to the inter national infra structure fund, how many bils went to other countries.... The point to all of this could we have accomplished surviving this pandemic without spending so much on it, this is not free money, and we don't just dig up out of the back yard that gold you talk about is our money coming out of our pockets not out of the ground...and we have not added up what this is costing the provinces, because we the tax payer are on the hook for that bill as well.... Yes every country is going through the same thing, but many of the G-7 countries have a plan for the recovery , one that is already costed out, take a look at Australia, who has a plan, which includes the purchase of many Chinese owned resources and industries, plus a 270 bil dollar investment into their military, and guess what it did not cost them 343 bil to do it all... This is what frustrates me about the left, you talk about money like it grows on trees , servicing the debt cost mere couple of bil the finance minster said....you guys freely throw it around , IF it is something that fits into the liberal mind set ....and yet when it comes to simple stuff like giving our vets the same rights every Canadian already has the answer is simple F*** that , they are asking more than we can pay right now....The condition of our military is a joke right now.. and soon it will be a target of cut backs...DND has already been told there may not be new fighters, and those in the shipbuilding project say rumor's have it no new ships either...And it is not just those things , all of our security depts are starving for funding...all they ever here is crickets when it comes to liberal or left spending....if it grows on trees why have we not tackled any of these problems ? why do first nations not have clean drinking water, or why reconciliation has not happened, why are all our national infra structure projects in the courts, why have we not made progress on climate change and developing new tech funded by the feds... the list goes on... So what is it....does everyone simply get out the shovels and start mining for gold, and we get what we need as a country....or are you guys just full of shit, National debt has a lot more people worried than a few conservatives...it must have given someone concern to lower our credit rating....i know who cares....well me for starters, my grand kids their grand kids generations after that....Most Canadians don't care as long as their pockets get a little thrown in there, whats in it for me...we all get it it was going to cost to survive this pandemic...did it need to almost double our debt load, and by 2021 in will have past more than doubling it....and we still don't have a plan for recovery , nor is it costed, Relax Army guy everything is going to be OK, says the left...here is your baggy of weed stop complaining...justin is our savior... Edited July 9, 2020 by Army Guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Shady said: You're not making any sense at all. That's your fault/problem Shady not mine. Try learning English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 10 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said: See...you really don't understand deficits, debt, or economic growth...regardless of political ideology. Sure I do. I even run a business. Then stop bragging about GDP to debt ratios that you do not even understand. As I said i do understand them. I also understand they are always relative to the ability of other nations, especially when they're in the same boat/economy, to stay afloat. Still waiting for the Martian debt collection battle fleet orbiting overhead to demand payment or else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, eyeball said: As I said i do understand them. I also understand they are always relative to the ability of other nations, especially when they're in the same boat/economy, to stay afloat. Still waiting for the Martian debt collection battle fleet orbiting overhead to demand payment or else. Well, when you are not ranting about Canada's governments mismanaging fisheries compared to those same other nations, you might want to consider just how much more dependent the provinces are on exports compared to them as well. More than China, and certainly more than the U.S. The Martians prefer U.S. dollars over Canadian pesos....same as NHL hockey players. Edited July 9, 2020 by bush_cheney2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, eyeball said: That's your fault/problem Shady not mine. Try learning English. Right, so don't address any of the points I mentioned. You're a complete hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 11 minutes ago, Shady said: Right, so don't address any of the points I mentioned. No I'm not, I addressed the point that your ignorance is your fault. The points you want addressed were addressed in the post you responded with when pointing out your ignorance. If you'd like to point out exactly what it is you don't understand I'd be happy to go over them again You're a complete hypocrite. . Given your comprehension issues I'd need confirmation you actually know what hypocrisy means. Perhaps an example of where exactly you think I'm being hypocritical would help. Thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Army Guy said: This is what frustrates me about the left, you talk about money like it grows on trees , servicing the debt cost mere couple of bil the finance minster said....you guys freely throw it around , IF it is something that fits into the liberal mind set ........if it grows on trees why have we not tackled any of these problems ? why do first nations not have clean drinking water, or why reconciliation has not happened, why are all our national infra structure projects in the courts, why have we not made progress on climate change and developing new tech funded by the feds... Not on trees. It gets printed in the print houses. :-) Money is not a physical asset, it is not food or land or goods or services unless you want to use it and convert into what you want. It is a promise. Now imagine this promise was a lie. And it has been a lie for some time which the super rich do not really know. The more money they have the more control they have over the rest of us, telling us what to do, what to value, what to work for and how to live our lives. We are in a kettle , where money is used to cook us up. When we are about to die, the master reduces the heat (gives us free money) to let us pull through. If we start getting too much, taxes increase so our disposable cash is reduced and we cannot reach the point of realization our money cannot buy us what we want as what we want is not available to everyone. So look at the national debt as a meaningless number; just a tool of control, that can be reset to zero at any time. What you really need to worry about is if people started to die off in such big numbers that production of foods, goods and provision of vital services could not continue or if we have a major contamination, where our food air, water are contaminated. Or if we reached the limits of our Planet for growing food. Edited July 9, 2020 by cougar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 20 hours ago, Army Guy said: 343 bil will be added to the national debt, Thats not including what the liberals have contributed to the debt already in the last 5 years of their reign another almost 100 bil, ya lets let that sink in for a minute they have almost doubled our national debt in 5 years.... And here is some more good news this is just a snap shot, this number could balloon to even higher, lets face it we all know it is going to get way higher, liberals have not told us the truth since they have been elected... some sources are expecting this number to go as high as plus 612 bil by 2021. Our credit rating has been lowered to AA rating, which translate into higher interest rates and more added debt... I think we all can agree that this number is staggering, but Justin has been handing out bils to major corporations, students, anyone and everything...is getting handouts...and what have we received for this vast amount of money....We still do not have a plan on how do we get our nation back up and running, " with out a plan we do not know the end costs" we still have not solved any of our old major problems, clan water for first nations, infrastructure projects, my favorite VETS benefits ....let alone the new ones that presented themselves during the pandemic...i mean if we are throwing away money atleast lets get some issues off the table For liberals this is going to be normal....no big deal... 343 bil is a huge deal, we all need to question where all this money is going, and to whom, i mean other than 900 mil to WE that is which could of almost gave vets everything they have asked for ....my great grand children are going to be shafted with this debt....your grand children are as well....It's time we toss these merry band of idiots out...... https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/high-unemployment-343b-deficit-projected-in-liberals-fiscal-snapshot/ar-BB16uJ62?ocid=msedgntp https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/liberals-fiscal-snapshot-predicts-343-billion-deficit-as-bill-morneau-offers-little-intention-to-curb-spending As long as the stunned Canadian electorate keeps voting for liberals and socialists the debt will only get deeper. It has to be quite evident that most Canadians could careless about the debt. Apparently, all they keep saying is, I am Canadian, tax me some more. Canada is one screwed up country full of people pretty much screwed up in their heads. It's hard to get anywhere when one is dealing with a bunch of no minds. But hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 1 hour ago, cougar said: Not on trees. It gets printed in the print houses. :-) Money is not a physical asset, it is not food or land or goods or services unless you want to use it and convert into what you want. It is a promise. Now imagine this promise was a lie. And it has been a lie for some time which the super rich do not really know. The more money they have the more control they have over the rest of us, telling us what to do, what to value, what to work for and how to live our lives. We are in a kettle , where money is used to cook us up. When we are about to die, the master reduces the heat (gives us free money) to let us pull through. If we start getting too much, taxes increase so our disposable cash is reduced and we cannot reach the point of realization our money cannot buy us what we want as what we want is not available to everyone. So look at the national debt as a meaningless number; just a tool of control, that can be reset to zero at any time. What you really need to worry about is if people started to die off in such big numbers that production of foods, goods and provision of vital services could not continue or if we have a major contamination, where our food air, water are contaminated. Or if we reached the limits of our Planet for growing food. Well, why doesn't the Canadian government reset it to zero? Personally, I believe that our government is in cahoots with the international banksters. Make them rich, and at the same time, make Canadians poorer. What a plan, hey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted July 9, 2020 Report Share Posted July 9, 2020 (edited) As devastating as it appears the Liberal government had no choice but to help Canadians in the time of Crisis. Yes this is in contrast to heartless conservatives in particular Harper and Kim Campbell however millions of Canadians lost their jobs and incomes during this pandemic and needed support to bring food to table and pay rent or mortgages. This is what any government with heart would have done for its citizens and this is what Trudeau government did too. Same deficit situation even worse in other industrialized countries like UK, US, France and others. I rather see Canadians supported at the time of crisis and continue to feed their families and children than a lower deficit. The deficit will come down soon. The measures taken were temporarily measures. Cerb and other pandemic related programs will expire soon. The economy is gradually opening up. Growth will come back to pre-pandemic levels. The deficit however must come down gradually. Surely but slowly not to cause hardship to the citizens. Conservative plans of eliminating this huge deficit rapidly would sink the slowly recovering economy back into depression and cause millions of Canadians severe hardship. Yes to Liberal plans and no to heartless conservative plans which hopefully will never be elected. Edited July 9, 2020 by CITIZEN_2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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