.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then there's the point of view that says people didn't vote because they're ok with how things are and it doesn't matter who or what is in power.  I know this sentiment eventually comes up when dissecting the post election wtf's.  Don't forget I hoped, as opposed to support, Trump's ascendency because I'm hoping for more anarchy. To each our own.  

I can see that.  I haven't really noticed a change in my life from many elections in the UK and Canada.  It never seemed to matter who got in, I just did okay.  That's not necessarily the case for all.

I supported Hillary because I just did not like DT, but I must admit I found the whole process highly entertaining, and still do.

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, TimG said:

Saying  that people taking the oath of citizenship should do so with their face uncovered is not racist. It is no different than saying TWU should not be allowed to have a law school because of a clause in their school covenant. The only reason the left does not see the latter as discriminatory it is because many on the left have adopted the absurd position that racism is not racism when directed at white/straits/christians. 

The fact is if you really care about discrimination you would stop trying to pretend that society is divided into victims and oppressors based only on the colour of their skin. Everyone can be racist/discriminatory and dealing with it will not come from a group of people who think it can't exist unless you skin has to little melanin.

I think this is a misunderstanding of what racism is.  Its not as simple as acting against a person who is different than you in skin color.   It has to do with power and using that power to effectively limit or control others.  

In Muslim majority countries, Christians experience racism (for lack of a better word).   Its because they are a minority and the dominant culture believes themselves superior and more entitled.   Sure, Christians in those countries can object, go to court and maybe win concessions, but that doesn't mean that Christians are racist against Muslims because racism is about power, and Muslims still hold the power, often legally and certainly socially, regardless of how many concessions Christians might win.

In Canada, laws supporting racism have been eliminated which makes us one step ahead of many or most Muslim majority countries.  In terms of culture, however, White Christians are the dominant culture and we expect and assume we will be accorded apropriate status, that we are entitled and superior. If it weren't, then White Canadians would never insult brown people ... Tell them to speak English, to go back to where they came from, to wear what we dictate etc.  

Only because we consider ourselves entitled to be in power do we feel justified in demanding (silently or otherwise) certain behaviors from other ethnicities or religions.  

Racism is about who wields the power and who does not.  Anyone who thinks White Canadians do not wield incredible power in this country needs to spend a year in a country where they are the minority.   

If you got through this long post, thanks.  

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I can see that.  I haven't really noticed a change in my life from many elections in the UK and Canada.  It never seemed to matter who got in, I just did okay.  That's not necessarily the case for all.

I supported Hillary because I just did not like DT, but I must admit I found the whole process highly entertaining, and still do.

DT is a pig there's no doubt about it, that said...go Trump go.

I've found the process refreshing. Fascinating as well. As for entertaining...I'm glad I've got a back row seat to the train-wreck. 

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I think this is a misunderstanding of what racism is.  Its not as simple as acting against a person who is different than you in skin color.   It has to do with power and using that power to effectively limit or control others.  

In Muslim majority countries, Christians experience racism (for lack of a better word).   Its because they are a minority and the dominant culture believes themselves superior and more entitled.   Sure, Christians in those countries can object, go to court and maybe win concessions, but that doesn't mean that Christians are racist against Muslims because racism is about power, and Muslims still hold the power, often legally and certainly socially, regardless of how many concessions Christians might win.

In Canada, laws supporting racism have been eliminated which makes us one step ahead of many or most Muslim majority countries.  In terms of culture, however, White Christians are the dominant culture and we expect and assume we will be accorded apropriate status, that we are entitled and superior. If it weren't, then White Canadians would never insult brown people ... Tell them to speak English, to go back to where they came from, to wear what we dictate etc.  

Only because we consider ourselves entitled to be in power do we feel justified in demanding (silently or otherwise) certain behaviors from other ethnicities or religions.  

Racism is about who wields the power and who does not.  Anyone who thinks White Canadians do not wield incredible power in this country needs to spend a year in a country where they are the minority.   

If you got through this long post, thanks.  

Racism is as simple as acting against a person who is different than you in skin color.  Racism is discrimination based on race. 

Once that has been established, then you can talk about power, levels and justification.  Affirmative action is racist.  Some people think it is justified.  If a German was to attack a Jew because he doesn't like Jews, it would be worse, to some, than if a Jew was to attack a German because he doesn't like Germans.

If a bunch of Finns beat up a Japanese person because they don't like the Japanese, is it racism if they do it in Finland but not if they do it in Japan?

Any demanding of certain behaviours from anyone should be based on the law, and no-one should be exempt, due to their ethicity or religion

[dialamah]

http://sociology.about.com/od/R_Index/fl/Racism.htm

"Racism refers to a variety of practices, beliefs, social relations and phenomena that work to reproduce a racial hierarchy and social structure that yields superiority and privilege for some, and discrimination and oppression for others."

Affirmative action is an attempt to offset the privilege enjoyed by the dominant culture.  I have no opinion as to its effectiveness or if its the best way to achieve that goal.

The Finns wouldn't be beating anyone up anywhere to maintain their racial superiority, unless their dominant culture had taught them they were entitled to do so.  

I think the better question is whether a Finn beating a Japanese in Finland would get less jail time than a Japanese beating up a Fin in Finland.   

[Guest]

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

noun: racism

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

I daresay there are a lot of definitions out there. 

 

If they did get less jail time, it would be racist.

[bush_cheney2004]

19 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I daresay there are a lot of definitions out there. 

 

Indeed...the term has been bastardized and co-opted by so many groups and agendas it ceases to have any bounded meaning.  It is not only a SJW dog whistle, but one of their biggest megaphones to attract attention.  Their favourite corollary is "white privilege" for one stop shopping in the simpleminded store of ideas and causes.

Edited November 14, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

I think this is a misunderstanding of what racism is.  Its not as simple as acting against a person who is different than you in skin color.   It has to do with power and using that power to effectively limit or control others.  

In Muslim majority countries, Christians experience racism (for lack of a better word).   Its because they are a minority and the dominant culture believes themselves superior and more entitled.   Sure, Christians in those countries can object, go to court and maybe win concessions, but that doesn't mean that Christians are racist against Muslims because racism is about power, and Muslims still hold the power, often legally and certainly socially, regardless of how many concessions Christians might win.

In Canada, laws supporting racism have been eliminated which makes us one step ahead of many or most Muslim majority countries.  In terms of culture, however, White Christians are the dominant culture and we expect and assume we will be accorded apropriate status, that we are entitled and superior. If it weren't, then White Canadians would never insult brown people ... Tell them to speak English, to go back to where they came from, to wear what we dictate etc.  

Only because we consider ourselves entitled to be in power do we feel justified in demanding (silently or otherwise) certain behaviors from other ethnicities or religions.  

Racism is about who wields the power and who does not.  Anyone who thinks White Canadians do not wield incredible power in this country needs to spend a year in a country where they are the minority.   

If you got through this long post, thanks.  

And yet, can you show a non-white, non-christian society in the world that is better? Equality in power is not always a smart thing to do.

[BC_chick]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I am NOT a one issue person. I'm not going to overlook vast stupidity in his policies, vast ignorance in his person, vast crudeness, dishonesty and cruelty in his behavior because I might have some sympathy with aspects of his immigration position. I like the idea of tightening up border controls, for example. It's ridiculous how their southern border has been a sieve for decades. They should have done something about that a long time ago. But the idea of deporting eleven million people is ludicrous on so many levels... As for his Muslim position, I again have some sympathy, but I find it too broad-brushed, too extreme, and frankly, stupid and counter-productive. It's fine to be more careful about who you let in from certain countries but do you really want to make millions of Muslim-Americans feel like they're not considered citizens by their own government? How is THAT going to help lower extremism?

You see, that's what a person does who ISN'T dumb. He isn't swayed by superficial appeal to a hot button talking point, but looks behind it to the details and implications. And he also bears in mind the character of the person offering up that talking point. If that character has been a lying scumbag his entire life then a person who ISN'T dumb tends to heavily discount what he says.

Which is why I think Trump supporters are dumb. Because they do none of that.

You're one of the most outspoken on this forum about your Immigrant/Muslim cautionary views (notice I didn't say anti this time).  It's really nice to see that even our most fervent is head and shoulders above his American counterparts.  

This makes me proud to be Canadian.

[Hal 9000]

I think the obvious next move is to try and hold those POS drama queen liberals to their promise to leave the US should Trump win.  I see some are already back peddling  by saying things like "I have to stay and help the people" or the confusing  "Trump won't drive me out of my country".

[BC_chick]

1 hour ago, bcsapper said:

rac·ism

ˈrāˌsizəm/

noun

noun: racism

1. the belief that all members of each race possess characteristics or abilities specific to that race, especially so as to distinguish it as inferior or superior to another race or races.

   • prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism directed against someone of a different race based on the belief that one's own race is superior.

 

I daresay there are a lot of definitions out there. 

 

If they did get less jail time, it would be racist.

The bolded part is the generally accepted use of the word even though 'race' in the literal sense is misnomer in this age of multiculturalism.  

I'm not sure how you're getting 'a lot of definitions' out of that: quite literally it means - feeling superior to people who are different and harbouring bad feelings for those people as a result.

Where's the plurality?

Edited November 14, 2016 by BC_chick

[DogOnPorch]

Quote

I think the obvious next move is to try and hold those POS drama queen liberals to their promise to leave the US should Trump win.  I see some are already back peddling  by saying things like "I have to stay and help the people" or the confusing  "Trump won't drive me out of my country".

 

They're all staying...of course. Vowing to man the Bunker to the bitter end as the Red State Army closes in.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[?Impact]

16 minutes ago, Hal 9000 said:

I think the obvious next move is to try and hold those POS drama queen liberals to their promise to leave the US should Trump win.  I see some are already back peddling  by saying things like "I have to stay and help the people" or the confusing  "Trump won't drive me out of my country".

 

Will you hold Donald Trump to keeping all his promises?

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, ?Impact said:

 

Will you hold Donald Trump to keeping all his promises?

Would you have held Hillary to hers? Pointless questions...one hand clapping.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

The bolded part is the generally accepted use of the word even though 'race' in the literal sense is misnomer in this age of multiculturalism.  

I'm not sure how you're getting 'a lot of definitions' out of that: quite literally it means - feeling superior to people who are different and harbouring bad feelings for those people as a result.

Where's the plurality?

I didn't say I got a lot of definitions. I said I daresay there are a lot of definitions, as the one I posted differed from the one dialamah posted. 

[BC_chick]

Just now, bcsapper said:

I didn't say I got a lot of definitions. I said I daresay there are a lot of definitions, as the one I posted differed from the one dialamah posted. 

Oh I get it.

Yes, I think hers is more all-encompassing and academic and yours is the layman usage.

[TimG]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Racism is about who wields the power and who does not.  Anyone who thinks White Canadians do not wield incredible power in this country needs to spend a year in a country where they are the minority. 

That statement is incredibly racist because it treats all white people as the same. While it is true to say that some people have a lot of power when compared to others. It is also true to say that the majority of those people are white today. It is not true to say that all white people have incredible power. Many whites are as poor and disadvantaged as any minority. 

While I can academically agree that racism is most problematic when it is wielded by those with power that does not mean that racism in other contexts should be excused or ignored. Racism is racism to matter who the instigator or receiver. Trump's rise was a direct consequence of the racism you expressed above that implies that one's ability to benefit for entrenched power structures is a function of melanin count.

Edited November 14, 2016 by TimG

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

Oh I get it.

Yes, I think hers is more all-encompassing and academic and yours is the layman usage.

Well, I'm of the opinion that racism does not require a power imbalance, and that anyone can be racist.  The definition I posted supports that position more than the one dialamah posted. 

[DogOnPorch]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I didn't say I got a lot of definitions. I said I daresay there are a lot of definitions, as the one I posted differed from the one dialamah posted. 

 

Lot's of stereotypes out there, too.

Love that White Privilege.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Lot's of stereotypes out there, too.

Love that White Privilege.

That's one infectious laugh, right there. 

[DogOnPorch]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

That's one infectious laugh, right there. 

 

White-lash.

Edited November 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[bush_cheney2004]

Unbelievable...CNN is airing a piece on mistrust of the media in the wake of a Trump victory, and their star guest is none other than Dan Rather, the media veteran who disgraced himself (and CBS News) by running with fake/forged documents about George W. Bush's guard service.   Both Rather and his producer on 60 Minutes II were FIRED, Trump style !   Rather says he was allowed to resign out of deference to his long years of service.

Nate Silver is explaining how he screwed up so badly on the polls.

Tell me again about the "dumb" Trump "supporters".

Edited November 14, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[DogOnPorch]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Unbelievable...CNN is airing a piece on mistrust of the media in the wake of a Trump victory, and their star guest is none other than Dan Rather, the media veteran who disgraced himself (and CBS News) by running with fake/forged documents about George W. Bush's guard service.   Both Rather and his producer on 60 Minutes II were FIRED, Trump style !   Rather says he was allowed to resign out of deference to his long years of service.

Nate Silver is explaining how he screwed up so badly on the polls.

Tell me again about the "dumb" Trump "supporters".

 

Oh you know...we can barely put two words together...like DeNiro.

Edited November 14, 2016 by DogOnPorch

[CITIZEN_2015]

In response to thread title yes some Trump supporters are ugly fat faced pigs who are hateful losers because of their own ugliness and inferiority and insult at others who are facially and otherwise superior to cover up their own inferiority.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3930596/Trump-deport-Woman-launches-racist-abuse-Iranian-born-citizen-train-calling-Middle-Eastern-terrorist-evil-little-pig-shocking-viral-video.html#readerCommentsCommand-message-field

Edited November 14, 2016 by CITIZEN_2015

[Smallc]

As was already said, Nate Silver doesn't do polling.