.

[DogOnPorch]

No...but Islam will be called out for what is is and has historically been. No more PC re: Islam. For this I'll be a happy camper...yes.

[dialamah]

14 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Say or do something politically incorrect and you won't be allowed to participate. You could lose your job, get kicked off the sports team. Villified, harassed, bullied. You're not allowed to have an opinion or engage in actions that disagrees with or isn't approved of by the left right.  

 

 Your quote applies to me, a left-leaning type person, and my experience growing up and my early adulthood in conservative strongholds.  I've added in blue the parts you missed.   

Funny how the right says they're being shut down, when they are on the news for refusing to serve homosexuals, shutting down abortion clinics, telling everyone the poor deserve to be poor, because they are poor.   For a segment of society that doesn't have a voice, conservatives are certainly noisy.   

Let's be clear:  disagreement is NOT shutting down "the other side".   Pointing out hypocrisy, racism, sexism, lack of empathy and lack of compassion is not shutting anyone down.   Constantly claiming that it's so is merely an attempt to shut down criticism.   If those things aren't true, then address them and proof them wrong.   Don't whinge about how it's all so unfair that you can't speak your mind, even as you're speaking your mind.

Edited November 13, 2016 by dialamah

[ReeferMadness]

18 hours ago, bcsapper said:

It was certainly stupid of Clinton to use the "deplorables" comment. I bet she lost it right there.

Isn't that ironic.  Trump spent his entire campaign whipping up hatred against recognized groups of people and was lauded for "telling it like it is".

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, ReeferMadness said:

Isn't that ironic.  Trump spent his entire campaign whipping up hatred against recognized groups of people and was lauded for "telling it like it is".

I would imagine those recognized groups of people voted against him?

I imagine lots of HC supporters thought she was just "telling it like it is" too.

Edited November 13, 2016 by bcsapper

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, ReeferMadness said:

Isn't that ironic.  Trump spent his entire campaign whipping up hatred against recognized groups of people and was lauded for "telling it like it is".

 

And they still voted for him (Women, Hispanics, and African Americans).    "The Deplorables" didn't vote so much for Hillary.

[Smallc]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I would imagine those recognized groups of people voted against him?

I imagine lots of HC supporters thought she was just "telling it like it is" too.

Compared to Trump, she was.

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Smallc said:

Compared to Trump, she was.

Yeah.  You'd think she might have had advisors to warn her about that.

[TimG]

3 hours ago, dialamah said:

Let's be clear:  disagreement is NOT shutting down "the other side".   Pointing out hypocrisy, racism, sexism, lack of empathy and lack of compassion is not shutting anyone down.   Constantly claiming that it's so is merely an attempt to shut down criticism.   If those things aren't true, then address them and proof them wrong.   Don't whinge about how it's all so unfair that you can't speak your mind, even as you're speaking your mind.

You point you are missing is a the left is quick to scream "racism" when nothing of the sort is going on because it is an lazy way to destroy any honest discussion of the issues. This has created a "boy who called wolf" effect that means that when people scream "racism" today it is dismissed as the ravings of an ideologue that wants to shut down the conversation.

It is worth remembering that that very moderate Romney and McCain were called racists and other sorts of nasty names. The lesson that the left should take from this is they should treat moderates that the disagree with them a lot more respect unless because keeping doing what they are doing simply creates the conditions for a Trump.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by TimG

[bush_cheney2004]

On 10/12/2016 at 10:26 AM, cybercoma said:

......Now this certainly doesn't describe all of Trump's supporters. However, it's certainly clear that the most staunch defenders of Trump are probably too dumb to realize they're dumb. Sadly, no amount of fact checking or independent expert opinion will convince them otherwise. They're unfortunately suffering from cognitive limitations that they can't overcome, unless eventually the cognitive dissonance becomes so jarring that they snap out of it. For a lot of Christian conservatives, that snapping point was a video with Trump bragging about sexually assaulting women. They finally realized what kind of man Trump is. There's hope yet.

 

 

Revisiting the OP, we find that many Christian conservatives and Republicans "came home" to vote for Trump anyway.   Women voted for Trump anyway.   Hispanics voted for Trump anyway.   Blacks voted for Trump anyway.   Hope voted for Trump anyway.  

The real snapping point was Hillary Clinton losing the election...just look at what happened to the expert opinions.

So who really were the 'dumb" ones ?

Edited November 14, 2016 by bush_cheney2004

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, TimG said:

You point you are missing is a the left is quick to scream "racism" when nothing of the sort is going on because it is an lazy way to destroy any honest discussion of the issues. This has created a "boy who called wolf" effect that means that when people scream "racism" today it is dismissed as the ravings of an ideologue that wants to shut down the conversation.

It is worth remembering that that very moderate Romney and McCain were called racists and other sorts of nasty names. The lesson that the left should take from this is they should treat moderates that the disagree with them a lot more respect unless because keeping doing what they are doing simply creates the conditions for a Trump.

 

Even moderate people can be racist, and exhibit racist attitudes and behavior.   Just because someone isn't actively hurling racial slurs doesn't mean they aren't racist.   

I don't know exactly what accusations of racism you consider out-of-line, but I'm inclined to think that maybe it's not so much these accusations are wrong, but that people are racist - they just don't want to *appear* racist.   So they equivocate, makes excuses and whinge about being treated unfairly.    They hope those accusers will STFU so they can continue with their unexamined behaviors.

 

[TimG]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Even moderate people can be racist, and exhibit racist attitudes and behavior.   Just because someone isn't actively hurling racial slurs doesn't mean they aren't racist.   

Saying  that people taking the oath of citizenship should do so with their face uncovered is not racist. It is no different than saying TWU should not be allowed to have a law school because of a clause in their school covenant. The only reason the left does not see the latter as discriminatory it is because many on the left have adopted the absurd position that racism is not racism when directed at white/straits/christians. 

The fact is if you really care about discrimination you would stop trying to pretend that society is divided into victims and oppressors based only on the colour of their skin. Everyone can be racist/discriminatory and dealing with it will not come from a group of people who think it can't exist unless you skin has to little melanin.

[Bryan]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So who really were the 'dumb" ones ?

The "too dumb to know that they're dumb" ones are the ones who insist that everyone who has a different perspective than they have is automatically a racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc. 

[?Impact]

1 minute ago, Bryan said:

The "too dumb to know that they're dumb" ones are the ones who insist that everyone who has a different perspective than they have is automatically a racist, misogynist, homophobic, etc. 

 

When that perspective is racist, misogynist, or homophobic, then why are they "dumb"? When you create a narrative that plays to those perspectives, then yes you are promoting them. 

[eyeball]

23 hours ago, ReeferMadness said:

But the common thread in all of this are what are called "low information voters". These people aren't necessarily stupid but they are grossly uninformed and not inclined to research or even think hard about information they are given.

So, Trump voters may not be too dumb to know what they've done but as a group, they are not inclined to figure it out.

Trump's victory is at least partly due to the number of voters who refused to hold their noses and vote for Clinton. They probably thought too hard about the information they had.

[?Impact]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Trump's victory is at least partly due to the number of voters who refused to hold their noses and vote for Clinton. They probably thought too hard about the information they had.

While I agree with that. those voters could have at least showed up and voted for Johnson, Stein, or even written in their mother-in-law. There are far too many irresponsible people out there, they even outnumber the deplorables.

[Guest]

They are deplorable.

Edited November 14, 2016 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm a conservative. There is nothing about Trump or his policies a real conservative would support. I know you're in love with his statements about keeping Muslims out of the country, but you know that's not gonna happen right?

Is it just me or does anyone else find this oddly out of character for Argus?

In this post-definitional world we now inhabit, the ground seems to have shifted most beneath the old left/right conservative/progressive paradigm.

welcome to htraE.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They are deplorable.

How come the near mythical framers couldn't have foreseen a day when so many people would become so disillusioned with voting that it might threaten democracy and why is hindsight so deplorable?

Edited November 14, 2016 by eyeball

[BC_chick]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Is it just me or does anyone else find this oddly out of character for Argus?

In this post-definitional world we now inhabit, the ground seems to have shifted most beneath the old left/right conservative/progressive paradigm.

welcome to htraE.

No I noticed too. I would have thought a lot of Trump policies would appeal to Argus. Especially the anti-immigration and anti-Muslim policies. 

Whatever it was I was very pleased to see him be such a voice of reason through the election.

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by BC_chick

[eyeball]

Who, Trump?

/sarcoff

Edited November 14, 2016 by eyeball

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How come the near mythical framers couldn't have foreseen a day when so many people would become so disillusioned with voting that it might threaten democracy and why is hindsight so deplorable?

I don't think anyone can claim hindsight in this case.  If I was a US citizen I would have left my deathbed to vote, and dragged my family, friends and neighbours with me.

There is no disillusionment with voting, just with candidates.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

No I noticed too. I would have thought a lot of Trump policies would appeal to Argus. Especially the anti-immigration and anti-Muslim policies. 

Whatever it was I was very pleased to see him be such a voice of reason through the election.

Like Trump there are times I find little disagreement with the things Argus voices concerns about...and then like Trump Argus says something that just makes me go ewwww. It's weird.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, BC_chick said:

No I noticed too. I would have thought a lot of Trump policies would appeal to Argus. Especially the anti-immigration and anti-Muslim policies. 

Whatever it was I was very pleased to see him be such a voice of reason through the election.

I am NOT a one issue person. I'm not going to overlook vast stupidity in his policies, vast ignorance in his person, vast crudeness, dishonesty and cruelty in his behavior because I might have some sympathy with aspects of his immigration position. I like the idea of tightening up border controls, for example. It's ridiculous how their southern border has been a sieve for decades. They should have done something about that a long time ago. But the idea of deporting eleven million people is ludicrous on so many levels... As for his Muslim position, I again have some sympathy, but I find it too broad-brushed, too extreme, and frankly, stupid and counter-productive. It's fine to be more careful about who you let in from certain countries but do you really want to make millions of Muslim-Americans feel like they're not considered citizens by their own government? How is THAT going to help lower extremism?

You see, that's what a person does who ISN'T dumb. He isn't swayed by superficial appeal to a hot button talking point, but looks behind it to the details and implications. And he also bears in mind the character of the person offering up that talking point. If that character has been a lying scumbag his entire life then a person who ISN'T dumb tends to heavily discount what he says.

Which is why I think Trump supporters are dumb. Because they do none of that.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I don't think anyone can claim hindsight in this case.  If I was a US citizen I would have left my deathbed to vote, and dragged my family, friends and neighbours with me.

There is no disillusionment with voting, just with candidates.

Then there's the point of view that says people didn't vote because they're ok with how things are and it doesn't matter who or what is in power.  I know this sentiment eventually comes up when dissecting the post election wtf's.  Don't forget I hoped, as opposed to support, Trump's ascendency because I'm hoping for more anarchy. To each our own.  

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Argus said:

I am NOT a one issue person. I'm not going to overlook vast stupidity in his policies, vast ignorance in his person, vast crudeness, dishonesty and cruelty in his behavior because I might have some sympathy with aspects of his immigration position. I like the idea of tightening up border controls, for example. It's ridiculous how their southern border has been a sieve for decades. They should have done something about that a long time ago. But the idea of deporting eleven million people is ludicrous on so many levels... As for his Muslim position, I again have some sympathy, but I find it too broad-brushed, too extreme, and frankly, stupid and counter-productive. It's fine to be more careful about who you let in from certain countries but do you really want to make millions of Muslim-Americans feel like they're not considered citizens by their own government? How is THAT going to help lower extremism?

You see, that's what a person does who ISN'T dumb. He isn't swayed by superficial appeal to a hot button talking point, but looks behind it to the details and implications. And he also bears in mind the character of the person offering up that talking point. If that character has been a lying scumbag his entire life then a person who ISN'T dumb tends to heavily discount what he says.

Which is why I think Trump supporters are dumb. Because they do none of that.

So is Argus actually maintaining that being a blowhard is a dumb idea when trying to get their point across?

 

Well I'll be gobsmacked.