Another Mass Shooting

[Army Guy]

Ya your posts show it....

[Big Guy]

I think it's the accuracy of what you view to be racist garbage that is a bit dodgy.

I would expect that from an Infidel!

[Moonlight Graham]

Which Muslim majority country do feel really puts Islam in its best light as the Religion of Peace?

Canada in 50 years?

[Guest]

I would expect that from an Infidel!

Blatant infidelophobia. I expect no less than a month in the cooler for that. Of course, it would be fairer if it was you going to the cooler.

[kimmy]

I think I have a better and more accurate view of the reality than most of the racist garbage that I see here.

I would think that the board's newly minted Muslim Expert would be aware that Mohammad didn't come along until almost 600 years AFTER Jesus.

And to reiterate what I said earlier: if your new comedy schtick starts derailing this thread into a bunch of inane banter, it's going to end. Consider this the "thin ice" warning.

-k

[DogOnPorch]

Canada in 50 years?

So you don't have an answer? Why is that? Are there no countries you can point to and say: "There you go, Dog...Islam in all its peaceful glory."

??

[kimmy]

Motive is the only factor with any variance when it comes to mass shootings. The commonality is mental instability and access to guns.

In *this case*, his motive was his religion's stance on homosexuality, but it's ridiculous to say it was his religion when it happens so often to non-Muslims.

I question what evidence there is that this guy was mentally unstable. Is "mentally unstable" a clinical diagnosis, or is it just a phrase that you can use to shrug off his motivation?

He apparently had a violent temper and beat his former wife. Does that mean he's mentally unstable, or does it just mean that he had a violent temper and beat his former wife? Is an aggressive or violent or abusive personality evidence of mental instability? Is intense hatred evidence of mental instability?

Was this guy able to make decisions? Coherent? In control of his actions? Capable of discerning the real world? All signs point to yes.

Our disbelief and inability to grasp the mindset of someone like this might lead us to say "only a lunatic could do something like this!" But there's no reason to think that he wasn't in control of his actions. Some people seem to wish to find some other explanation for what he did. Ever see the "Twin Peaks" TV program? Agent Cooper comes to the conclusion that some sort of demon had possessed Laura Palmer's father. Sheriff Truman says he finds that hard to believe. Agent Cooper asks him if he finds it easier to believe that a man could rape and murder his own daughter. I think that some people need to believe that Omar Mateen must had some sort of mental issue because it's easier for them to accept than the idea that a man just hated people he hadn't even met so much that he wanted to kill them.

As well, I question whether yourself and the waldo would be as eager to chalk this up to mental instability if it weren't so convenient to your particular political views.

Say, for example, that the situation had been different Sunday: Omar Mateen had been stopped on his way to the Pulse club, while James Howell had continued on to the LA Pride Parade and killed some untold number of people with his assault rifles and explosives. And while we don't know for sure yet what Howell's motivation was, suppose we assume he wanted to "kill the gays to stand up for Christians".

There's no doubt that instead of Islam, today we'd instead be talking about the heated anti-gay rhetoric from Christian leaders and politicians. Would you and the waldo be as quick to dismiss that and say it's just a crazy guy being all crazy-like? Color me skeptical.

-k

[BC_chick]

Are you seriously questioning his mental stability when he walked into a bar and massacred 50 innocent people?

And no, this has nothing to do with my bias, the white guy who opened fire on a black Church, the other guy who shot up Planned Parenthood... all mentally unstable even though I have nothing against black people or abortion clinics.

Everyone is entitled to their prejudices and hatred but anyone capable of carrying out a murder en masse like this is not right in the head.

Edited June 14, 2016 by BC_chick

[BC_chick]

The definition of 'mass shooting' has been greatly expanded. Most of the ones you're thinking of are gang members shooting each other up.

No, mass shootings exclude gang violence.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/08/27/health/u-s-most-mass-shootings/index.html

The US is still by far leading the pack when it comes to nut jobs going into a place where innocent people are sitting ducks and killing them en masse.

[kimmy]

Are you seriously questioning his mental stability when he walked into a bar and massacred 50 innocent people?

That you can't comprehend his mindset doesn't mean that he was unstable or insane or not in control of his actions. He seems to have been very methodical in planning and carrying out this act. I see no reason to think that what he did was anything other than a deliberate and conscious choice. It's not a choice that you or I would make, but neither of us believes that an Eternal Reward is waiting in heaven for those who smite down sinners.

-k

[BC_chick]

That you can't comprehend his mindset doesn't mean that he was unstable or insane or not in control of his actions. He seems to have been very methodical in planning and carrying out this act. I see no reason to think that what he did was anything other than a deliberate and conscious choice. It's not a choice that you or I would make, but neither of us believes that an Eternal Reward is waiting in heaven for those who smite down sinners.

-k

I have no doubt that the SC black Church shooter hated blacks. I have no guy the guy who shot up Planned Parenthood was against abortion.

I also have no doubt that Orlando shooter hated gays.

The thing is, lots of people hate blacks, gays and abortion but they don't act on it by killing people.

That to me is the sign of a mentally unstable person.

[kimmy]

That to me is the sign of a mentally unstable person.

That's just a matter of opinion, though. If you knew that doing something would get you an Eternal Reward in Paradise, why wouldn't you do it?

-k

[BC_chick]

That's just a matter of opinion, though. If you knew that doing something would get you an Eternal Reward in Paradise, why wouldn't you do it?

-k

There are millions of Muslims in the US who are not killing gays. Maybe you can explain what set this one apart... if it's not mental instability.

[Moonlight Graham]

So you don't have an answer? Why is that? Are there no countries you can point to and say: "There you go, Dog...Islam in all its peaceful glory."

??

Well go compare Indonesia to other comparably wealthy developing countries.

[kimmy]

There are millions of Muslims in the US who are not killing gays. Maybe you can explain what set this one apart... if it's not mental instability.

Enthusiasm? The courage to act while others just think? A different interpretation of scripture than most? Angrier? How should I know what motivates a religious idiot to do stuff? I'm just saying that your conclusion that he must have been mental is a subjective assessment based on your own normative set of values, and may fail to take into account many factors such as those above.

My subjective feeling is that religious beliefs are inherently pretty irrational, but I'm not judging religious people based on whether their actions make sense to me.

-k

[Moonlight Graham]

That's just a matter of opinion, though. If you knew that doing something would get you an Eternal Reward in Paradise, why wouldn't you do it?

-k

You can't paint all moderates as extremists just because some extremists go extreme.

I invite all people here who haven't befriended a Muslim to get their heads out of the newspaper and go communicate face-to-face with some of the actual human beings that they're talking about before coming to any quite-serious conclusions about them.

[kimmy]

Mostly it bothers me that "mental instability" is being employed-- not just here, but elsewhere-- as a dodge, an excuse, a way to avoid talking about the inherent hatred of gay people in Islam (and in other religions as well.)

It also bothers me that the media seems to be trying to make Muslims the victims of this attack. Just as after Cologne we were deluged with stories about Muslims who felt bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings were hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass assaults, Muslims who were giving flowers to German women, Muslims who were upset that German women didn't want to go #withinarmsreach of them, and so on. Now we're being inundated with stories about Muslims who feel bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings have been hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass shooting, Muslims who are donating blood, Muslims who have gay friends, gay Muslims who have gay friends, Muslims who put flowers at makeshift memorials, Muslims who have put rainbow bumper-stickers on their cars, and so-on.

Fricking stop. It makes me want to puke.

-k

[Guest]

I have no doubt that the SC black Church shooter hated blacks. I have no guy the guy who shot up Planned Parenthood was against abortion.

I also have no doubt that Orlando shooter hated gays.

The thing is, lots of people hate blacks, gays and abortion but they don't act on it by killing people.

That to me is the sign of a mentally unstable person.

Are they all mentally unstable? The ones who toss gays from roofs? The ones who machete bloggers? The ones who kill people who depict their prophet? The ones who kill people because someone else depicted their prophet? The ones who behead Canadians? The ones who stone women for not really doing anything wrong at all. The ones who think the penalty for apostasy or blasphemy should not just be a good talking to by a local religious worthy. It could be argued that they all are, I guess. They do believe in the supernatural, and that's a bit insane. It does kinda tie them all together, though.

[eyeball]

Mostly it bothers me that "mental instability" is being employed-- not just here, but elsewhere-- as a dodge, an excuse, a way to avoid talking about the inherent hatred of gay people in Islam (and in other religions as well.)

It also bothers me that the media seems to be trying to make Muslims the victims of this attack. Just as after Cologne we were deluged with stories about Muslims who felt bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings were hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass assaults, Muslims who were giving flowers to German women, Muslims who were upset that German women didn't want to go #withinarmsreach of them, and so on. Now we're being inundated with stories about Muslims who feel bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings have been hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass shooting, Muslims who are donating blood, Muslims who have gay friends, gay Muslims who have gay friends, Muslims who put flowers at makeshift memorials, Muslims who have put rainbow bumper-stickers on their cars, and so-on.

Fricking stop. It makes me want to puke.

-k

I thought people wanted Muslim moderates to be more vocal in their opposition to extremism.

[Moonlight Graham]

It also bothers me that the media seems to be trying to make Muslims the victims of this attack.

Well, they are being attacked now, only in a different way.

[kimmy]

I think I get to be furious over the massacre of dozens of people for a while longer before I start worrying about the Muslims whose feelings have been hurt in the aftermath.

-k

[marcus]

These things will continue to happen, and more often as more Muslims come over

They have a lot more to go before they come anywhere near the amount of mass shootings committed by white boys.

But those are okay not to talk about, because they are not Muslim.

Let's blame the dozens of mass shootings by white boys on mental illness. But the guy in Orlando? Despite what his ex-wife says, it has nothing to do with mental illness.

THE MUSLIMS ARE COMING!!!!111

No wait:

THE MUSLIMS ARE ALREADY HERE!!!!111

Let's round them up.

[marcus]

This "Muslim Jihadist" pledged alliance to both ISIL and Hezbollah. Two rival groups who are at the moment fighting each other in Syria.

[marcus]

Chase Strangio (from ACLU) wrote: "The Christian Right has introduced 200 anti-LGBT bills in the last six months and people blaming Islam for this. No."

[kimmy]

I thought people wanted Muslim moderates to be more vocal in their opposition to extremism.

Well, they are being attacked now, only in a different way.

While the media are sending out these stories about the loving, compassionate Muslims of Orlando who are donating blood and putting flowers at the memorial and giving out free hugs and so on, I'd like to remind you of the loving, compassionate Muslims of Orlando who invited this "scholar" to speak at their event just a few months ago.

Perhaps in the future, the loving, compassionate Muslims could show their loving, compassionate nature by not inviting speakers who advocate death for gay people to come speak at their events.

-k