DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 So I can point out where the problem exists in the Islamic faith...Big Mo says 'kill 'em all' re: homosexuals....but incredulity won't allow folks to 'believe' the Dog. ...he must be making it up from some pro-Trump anti-Muslim website...Mohammad wouldn't say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Yes, I saw that on the news last night. It does open up more questions [...] 3. While he had been seen in the club on previous occasions, has anyone come forward saying he participated in a gay lifestyle. Does he have any boyfriends/lovers/one night stands? If so, did he kill all of them? Perhaps he made plans with them to meet them there that night, his phone records, email, and other electronic communications might provide some insight. He had a Grindr profile too. Edited June 14, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Pick your poison: Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. - Matthew 10:15 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. - Leviticus 20:13 We also sent Lut : He said to his people : "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds. - Qur'an 7:80-81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver." ---Mohammad Deuteronomy 17: "If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm against all fascism, straw-man. Ah so you DO oppose legislation like the PATRIOT Act and the NDAA. Thanks for the clarification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 It appears that it is convenient to pick and choose translations of foreign verse when satisfying a personal agenda. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 His religion planted the seed the homophobia no doubt, but I've been arguing that it was ultimately his mental instability that made him do what he did. To back up my argument, I've brought up the fact that the motive of mass-shooters has variance whereas a malignant aggressive personality is the only commonality. I think your not digging deep enough for your answers, mental instability or a malignant aggressive personality is not the end all be all solution. According to your train of thought one would have to be on the edge of sanity before taking a life...So how do we explain Soldiers, police officers who's job may entail them to take a life. My point here is anyone can be conditioned to take a life....me ,you, your children, the list is endless....In the military they train soldiers to reduce the enemy to a less than human, training soldiers to reduce the person in the sites to nothing more than a paper target....It is part of the military culture.... How does this relate to our Muslim gunman, while he has been conditioned as well, through his religion, then his father extremist ideology. He planned this, purchased firearms, became familiar with the place of attack....then he carried it out, the act itself is the easy part, one does not need to be insane to pull a trigger...One does need to be a little twisted to live with the consequences and be all right with it all. But pulling the trigger anyone can do it, if you've been conditioned... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Pick your poison: Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. - Matthew 10:15 What's homophobic about that? In actually it looks like Jesus (assuming that's who your quoting) is saying that others will be judged more harshly than those who commit sexual sin. Edited June 14, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I thought people wanted Muslim moderates to be more vocal in their opposition to extremism. Good point. Moderates are speaking out and even on CBC 'The Current' they had on guests that were Muslim AND gay. Maybe the moderates are being overlooked by those who just want to bash an entire religion/people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Another armchair religious scholar rationalizing his/her racism. Do you respect Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism ... I suggest that it will depend on the predominant color and culture of the followers. "Islam deserves no respect this is unearned". More correctly it should read - Islam deserves the respect that it has earned. Those billions of followers may know something that you do not know. Once again, I'll ask Can you name an Islamic nation, or a nation that has a majority of muslims within it, that enjoys the freedoms you enjoy today. Do they have democracy, and are the free from armed conflict ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Good point. Moderates are speaking out and even on CBC 'The Current' they had on guests that were Muslim AND gay. Maybe the moderates are being overlooked by those who just want to bash an entire religion/people. You mean like: "It also bothers me that the media seems to be trying to make Muslims the victims of this attack. Just as after Cologne we were deluged with stories about Muslims who felt bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings were hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass assaults, Muslims who were giving flowers to German women, Muslims who were upset that German women didn't want to go #withinarmsreach of them, and so on. Now we're being inundated with stories about Muslims who feel bad about what happened, Muslims whose feelings have been hurt by negative comments about Islam in wake of the mass shooting, Muslims who are donating blood, Muslims who have gay friends, gay Muslims who have gay friends, Muslims who put flowers at makeshift memorials, Muslims who have put rainbow bumper-stickers on their cars, and so-on." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 It appears that it is convenient to pick and choose translations of foreign verse when satisfying a personal agenda. "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." He will run off and not confront his own double standard. Why bother replying to this dishonest creature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
?Impact Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 What's homophobic about that? In actually it looks like Jesus (assuming that's who your quoting) is saying that others will be judged more harshly than those who commit sexual sin. Yes, but it is also condemning those that commit sexual sin. Basically he is saying that those who are unworthy (non-believer?) are worse than homosexuals. That would be like saying "a murderer is worse than a rapist". You are not saying that a rapist is good or acceptable, just that a murderer is worse. If I said "a murderer is worse than a florist" would it have the same meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Good point. Moderates are speaking out and even on CBC 'The Current' they had on guests that were Muslim AND gay. Maybe the moderates are being overlooked by those who just want to bash an entire religion/people. Those few that are willing to speak out should be commended, and should be taken into account when discussing Islam. They are after all putting themselves in the lime light, and perhaps even risking their lives....But Muslims have been in North America for generations, what real changes have they brought forth in regards to their religion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Yes, but it is also condemning those that commit sexual sin. Basically he is saying that those who are unworthy (non-believer?) are worse than homosexuals. That would be like saying "a murderer is worse than a rapist". You are not saying that a rapist is good or acceptable, just that a murderer is worse. If I said "a murderer is worse than a florist" would it have the same meaning? No he's actually claiming that the sins that we get caught up on are no worse than the ones that we don't. The whole driving force of Christianity is that we are all sinners and and only through Christ will we find purity. The quote is playing off the "yet he who is without sin, cast the first stone" mentality that Christianity should be all about. He also doesn't address homosexuality directly. Christ was warm and loving to those that committed sexual sin. Now if you oppose to the idea of sexual sin in the first place, that's another thing. But it's not homophobia. One would be as harshly judgemental to those who commit adultery or impure thoughts. Edited June 14, 2016 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Deuteronomy 17: "If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die." I'm not a Christian...and using one bad example to excuse another bad example doesn't work with me. If Christian terrorists were the issue, I'd be giving them the treatment, as well. But it is Islam being the murderous cult these days...something you're willing to excuse, obviously...as you just did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Ah so you DO oppose legislation like the PATRIOT Act and the NDAA. Thanks for the clarification. You think you know me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Good point. Moderates are speaking out and even on CBC 'The Current' they had on guests that were Muslim AND gay. Maybe the moderates are being overlooked by those who just want to bash an entire religion/people. What is a moderate Muslim? One that doesn't follow the Quran/Hadiths? Remember...Islam is a RELIGION. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) Once again, I'll ask Can you name an Islamic nation, or a nation that has a majority of muslims within it, that enjoys the freedoms you enjoy today. Do they have democracy, and are the free from armed conflict ? Thank you for the question. There are many freedoms that I enjoy to-day that other nations do not - but at a price. I am free to do anything legal and many are free to do things illegal. I remember when the Soviet Union dissolved and "freedom" came to the populace - so did petty crime, organized crime and social upheaval. I was surprised when so may Russians wanted the old regime back - but that is their country. I think we make a mistake when we try to impart our concept of freedom and democracy on other cultures. Some of us feel facial coverings for women is a bad thing while many from those cultures and others, when given the choice, continue to wear them. As far as armed conflict, My recollection is that no official delegation from Iraq asked the USA to attack it? There were far more people killed by the machinations of the West than were by the previous dictatorial government. Maybe we should take a poll of the current Iraqi population (what is left of it) on whether they were better off before in a dictatorship or the "democracy" they currently employ. I believe that a democracy is a very special kind of social order which requires an educated population. We vote in elections and in most cases, the people we voted for are not elected. We accept that fact, allow those who we did not choose to have the power of decision over us, and wait until the next election. We accept that only because we have learned what the alternative social orders are and what eventually happens to those societies which are governed accordingly. Most countries do not have a fully educated population so they continue to evolve experimenting with different social orders. There are other nations (like Turkey and Iran) who are struggling with freedoms with many wanting the "old religious order' and the stability that comes with that and those who want freedom of choice and action and are ready to accept all of the negatives that come with it. I believe that is their choice. There are millions of people running out of Syria and Iraq - not because of the governing structure but because we are bombing their homes and killing them in their own country. Most were living a productive and happy life before we got involved. Now they have nothing but the freedom to .... I believe that the West is finally beginning to understand the civil war between Sunnis and Shiites. The Sunni ISIS has had taken Sunni occupied land by just driving through it and had to fight to get Shiite land. Turkish and Iranian troops have managed to free up the areas where the Sunni ISIS was on Shiite land because they got co-operation from the local Shiites. Now the battle has move to Sunni lands where ISIS soldiers are fighting for their homeland, houses and villages. The Turks and Iranians are invaders here and will pay the price. I am straying off topic here but that I believe is the problem with the West. We are not Muslim nations, we do not understand the culture of Muslim nations and are therefore suspicious and resentful of it. So when we get a mass shooting like this latest one it is easy to fall back on previous prejudices to try to explain why people do horrific things. Edited June 14, 2016 by Big Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 You think you know me. Hey if you don't want to clarify then that is up to you. I can speculate your stance until you cannot even recognize it anymore. Again you are correct I do not know you, that is why I asked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 Hey if you don't want to clarify then that is up to you. I can speculate your stance until you cannot even recognize it anymore. Again you are correct I do not know you, that is why I asked. I really don't want to know you...so either respond to questions or don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 14, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I'm not a Christian...and using one bad example to excuse another bad example doesn't work with me. If Christian terrorists were the issue, I'd be giving them the treatment, as well. But it is Islam being the murderous cult these days...something you're willing to excuse, obviously...as you just did. If you read what I posted you will see that I am not excusing anything. I am pointing out that interpretation of the teachings of any religion tend to satisfy the agenda of the interpreter. I suggest that people turning terrorists are the issue not Islam or Muslim terrorists. Your assumptions say more about your attitude than the beliefs of these terrorists. I know I cannot convince you differently - so be it. It gets tedious after a while to go over the same ground time and time again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 I really don't want to know you...so either respond to questions or don't. Strawman, this is not about me. This was about asking YOU a specific question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 If you read what I posted you will see that I am not excusing anything. I am pointing out that interpretation of the teachings of any religion tend to satisfy the agenda of the interpreter. I suggest that people turning terrorists are the issue not Islam or Muslim terrorists. Your assumptions say more about your attitude than the beliefs of these terrorists. I know I cannot convince you differently - so be it. It gets tedious after a while to go over the same ground time and time again. Islam doesn't deserve any of my respect. Nor does Christianity or any other fairy tale. I don't have to like and respect fantasy...understand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC_chick Posted June 14, 2016 Report Share Posted June 14, 2016 (edited) I think your not digging deep enough for your answers, mental instability or a malignant aggressive personality is not the end all be all solution. According to your train of thought one would have to be on the edge of sanity before taking a life...So how do we explain Soldiers, police officers who's job may entail them to take a life. My point here is anyone can be conditioned to take a life....me ,you, your children, the list is endless....In the military they train soldiers to reduce the enemy to a less than human, training soldiers to reduce the person in the sites to nothing more than a paper target....It is part of the military culture.... How does this relate to our Muslim gunman, while he has been conditioned as well, through his religion, then his father extremist ideology. He planned this, purchased firearms, became familiar with the place of attack....then he carried it out, the act itself is the easy part, one does not need to be insane to pull a trigger...One does need to be a little twisted to live with the consequences and be all right with it all. But pulling the trigger anyone can do it, if you've been conditioned... While psychos find excellent refuge in the military, I think the military is more about kill or be killed attitude. Mass shooters lack this element and are out to kill without any notion of self defense. Look I don't deny homophobe attitudes in religion I just think this guy is more similar with mass shooters than he is with Bin Laden. His ex coworker and ex wife who both say he was dangerous said he wasn't particularly religious. He was a screw loose though. Obviously. Edited June 14, 2016 by BC_chick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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