jbg Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 That's not helpful today, is it?Why not? Do countries that lose a war normally get a “do-over”? Does Mexico get a U.N.-supervised rerun of the Mexican War? Should Spain get back Cuba, Puerto Rico and the Philippines? And why should the Arabs be rewarded for intransigence? One integrated democratic state? Or one Jewish state 'from the river to the sea' ... without all the Arabs? . A combination of those. Arabs that are willing to assimilate and accept that they live in a Jewish state should get the full benefit of citizenship. And the surrounding countries are part of the bargain as well. True peace, and they should accept displaced Arabs who do not want to become Israelis. The same way Israel accepted hundreds of thousands of displaced Jews from Yemen, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Tunisia and Morocco after they were expelled from those countries during the early 1950’s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 30, 2016 Report Share Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) A combination of those. Arabs that are willing to assimilate and accept that they live in a Jewish state should get the full benefit of citizenship. And the surrounding countries are part of the bargain as well. True peace, and they should accept displaced Arabs who do not want to become Israelis.Well that's honest at least: A Jewish state of Israel 'from the river to the sea', without all of the Arabs who live in the West Bank and Gaza.I appreciate the clarity, but ... Do you think Israel is prepared to offer "full ... citizenship" that would result in an Arab majority in that version of Israel? Do you think Palestinians would accept that their territory become part of a Jewish state? I believe your position may well be Israel's intention. I'm just not sure it's reasonable. . Edited May 30, 2016 by jacee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Until Jordan fesses-up to their annexing of the West Bank way back in 1949 (and take responsibility no matter regicide and Black September)...yah. Why should it be Israel's problem? They were attacked...not the attacker. Israel isn't going to let another 1948, 1967 or 1973 happen again. Three times was plenty. So again ... no reasonable suggestion for resolution. At least jbg is stating the obvious: Israel wants the West Bank and Gaza as part of the Jewish state, without all the Arabs who live there and with some unspecified differences in the rights of Jews and Arabs. That isn't something I can support, nor many others. It just isn't reasonable. And that does not make me antisemitic, as I've been accused of. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbg Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 So again ... no reasonable suggestion for resolution. At least jbg is stating the obvious: Israel wants the West Bank and Gaza as part of the Jewish state, without all the Arabs who live there and with some unspecified differences in the rights of Jews and Arabs. That isn't something I can support, nor many others. It just isn't reasonable. And that does not make me antisemitic, as I've been accused of. . It isn't what I want. It's what the Arabs have forced. And the world has forced for not supporting Israel against unprovoked aggression. Any other course equals a dead Israel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Folks like you...away. You don't understand the conflict but feel free to chime in with stupid statements about Jews wanting all the land while ISIS actually tries to take all the land. But, I have a feeling ISIS aren't the bad guys to some folks on this forum. Meh, they're just one more thing - it IS what it IS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Had Jordan not attacked Israel in 1967 (from their so-called West Bank that they annexed in the '48 War), this wouldn't be an issue. The West Bank would still be Trans-Jordan and all would be well in the world...Jerusalem would be under Islamic control rather than the hated Jews. But, even when Israel begged Jordan not to attack, the King's response was 'The Die Is Cast'...just like Julius Caesar. In the Jordanians went...to their doom. Your PLO friends were involved in the Six Day War, too...of course. All betting that their new Soviet weapons (given for 'free' by the USSR for favors) would win the day against the rather poorly equipped Israelis. You get what you pay for in this world... BTW...there was zero interest in reviving the Mufti's 'Palestinian Cause' before the Six Day War of 1967. The Hashemites were firmly in control at the Temple Mount and were sitting in the cat-bird seat compared to their rivals, the fascist al-Husseini clan (and pals)...the guys you support. Arafat, who had taken over from his Nazi uncle Haj Amin circa 1964, was only given the time of day following Jordan's* defeat. At the Khartoum Conference of 1967, your beloved Palestinians were recreated for the sole purpose of countering Israel...international terrorism the only form of "negotiation" regarding Israel allowed. Airliners started dropping from the skies... * And all the other Arab armies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacee Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 It isn't what I want. It's what the Arabs have forced. And the world has forced for not supporting Israel against unprovoked aggression. Any other course equals a dead Israel. Well that's a poison pill to any resolution, isn't it? Israel 'has to' have the West Bank and Gaza ... without the Arabs. At least you re telling the truth. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Well that's a poison pill to any resolution, isn't it? Israel 'has to' have the West Bank and Gaza ... without the Arabs. At least you re telling the truth. . Israel pulled out of Gaza long ago...2005...giving it to the so-called Palestinians complete with industries and infrastructure. Completely Jew-free...paradise...right? Nope. The 'Palestinians' destroyed both the lucrative greenhouses and such...destroyed the infrastructure...'elected' Hamas and started attacking Israel. So, what would you like to see Israel do now? You know...for peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I have the sneaking suspicion that nobody in this thread other than myself knows what a Hashemite is and how it relates to the Palestinian Cause. Prove me wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't know either ... and that's my point: It is impossible for me to support Israel's position when I don't know what it is. Staunch supporters of Israel here, who often attack others like me who question Israel's intentions, should be able to present a reasonable account of Israel's intentions. If you don't know Israel's intentions ... how can you support Israel unconditionally, demand that others also do so and vilify those who question Israel's intentions? . I don't support Israel unconditionally. And I've already made clear on numerous occasions that my support of Israel is largely based on the quality of their enemies, most of whom are the enemies of civilization as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't support Israel unconditionally. And I've already made clear on numerous occasions that my support of Israel is largely based on the quality of their enemies, most of whom are the enemies of civilization as well. Middle East history to the majority of the anti-Zionists consists of a YouTube video they watched about those evil nasty Jews doing oh-so-rotten things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 (edited) . Edited May 31, 2016 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 I don't support Israel unconditionally. And I've already made clear on numerous occasions that my support of Israel is largely based on the quality of their enemies, most of whom are the enemies of civilization as well.Interesting. My hated for Jews and support for terrorism is largely based on the quality of support western conservative right-wingers have for the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Interesting. My hated for Jews and support for terrorism is largely based on the quality of support western conservative right-wingers have for the status quo. Who are you slandering by calling a right winger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Your precious Mufti for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Your precious Mufti for one. Right and Left wing politics only apply in a democracy. Your Mufti...he's on the Arab side of the equation...was a Nazi...not a believer in the democratic process. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Your precious Mufti for one. Western conservative all the way...lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted May 31, 2016 Report Share Posted May 31, 2016 Right and Left wing politics only apply in a democracy. According to the originators of the terms he was right wing thru and thru. Your Mufti...he's on the Arab side of the equation...was a Nazi...not a believer in the democratic process. Point being he wasn't progressive, much like his scapegoaters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Looks like there is history and there is revisionist history. Israeli's have been keeping the truth of its past shenanigans in an efforet to control its reputation: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-blocking-access-archives-160609054341909.html It appears that the Zionists would prefer to write Israeli history to their particular agenda. Why hide something that you are proud of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kactus Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Looks like there is history and there is revisionist history. Israeli's have been keeping the truth of its past shenanigans in an efforet to control its reputation: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-blocking-access-archives-160609054341909.html It appears that the Zionists would prefer to write Israeli history to their particular agenda. Why hide something that you are proud of? Very interesting and revealing! I guess they kept the genie in a bottle for such a long time that no one really cares... The evasiveness is and has always been part of their policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) According to the originators of the terms he was right wing thru and thru. Point being he wasn't progressive, much like his scapegoaters. Nazis are more socialist than fellows like yourself like to admit. National Socialism...it's in the name. Group think...big rallies...Stalin would be right at home. And he was...until a certain day in June 1941. Edited June 9, 2016 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcus Posted June 9, 2016 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Looks like there is history and there is revisionist history. Israeli's have been keeping the truth of its past shenanigans in an efforet to control its reputation: http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/israel-blocking-access-archives-160609054341909.html It appears that the Zionists would prefer to write Israeli history to their particular agenda. Why hide something that you are proud of? Whitewashing and misinformation is the name of the game for today's Zionists. Very little has come out from the censorship, and the things that have trickled through are quite disgusting: From 1967 Nonetheless, some of the declassified material was revealing. Uzi Narkiss, who headed the army's central command at the time, suggested that he and other commanders hoped to ethnically cleanse most of the territories under cover of fighting. He told fellow officers: "Within 72 hours we'll drive out all the Arabs from the West Bank". From Nakba the publication of a soldier's letter in the Haaretz newspaper, detailing the execution of hundreds of Palestinian men, women and children at the village of Dawaymeh, near Hebron. On par with ISIS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Nazis are more socialist than fellows like yourself like to admit. National Socialism...it's in the name. Group think...big rallies...Stalin would be right at home. And he was...until a certain day in June 1941. Yes...I'm practically a Nazi Communist myself...when I'm not a Zionist that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudson Jones Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Following the terror attack in Tel Aviv, who said these things? "the occupation is a cause of Palestinian terror" and "Israel may be the only country in the world holding another nation under occupation without civil rights." and “There is no way to hold people in a situation of occupation and think that they will reach the conclusion that every thing is okay and they will continue to live like that,” A self hating Jew? A Hasidic Jew? Another lost young Jew in the U.S.? A "crazy Jew"? A leftist, bleeding heart Jew? No. It's the Tel Aviv mayor, Ron Huldai, speaking to Army Radio in Israel. Ron Huldai is not the savior of the Israeli Left. He is, regardless of political opportunism, simply speaking the truth in a country where the idea that 50 years of military dictatorship might just have something to do with Palestinian violence is now popularly viewed as something akin to treason. And for that he is to be commended. Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIK Posted June 9, 2016 Report Share Posted June 9, 2016 Quit attacking Israel and peace will be had. But Hudson, it must piss you off that your Arab buddies are slowly becoming more friendly with Israel, because they need Israel to help fight off ISIS. Even Hamas is getting some support from Israel to help keep out ISIS from Egypt. So Hudson when peace does come ,where will you be able to spew your hatred then. Your whole world is going to start to falling apart all around you. And I will be here to keep reminding you. Life is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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