Former Israeli PM on Israel's credibility + Fascism

[marcus]

Your latest words are amusing. Now you suggest everyone should be able to have their own counties including Jews, then contradict youself

I have never contradicted myself. I accept that Israel is here to stay, despite the questionable way it was formed. What I don't agree with are the illegal settlements, the occupation and the land annexation. For the sake of moving forward, the 1967 internationally recognized border should be forced on Israel. The settlements should be removed or there should be some kind of agreed upon land swap and the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians should be dealt with in a reasonable and just way. Either be allowed to go back to their homes and/or given compensation and other land to live in.

[bush_cheney2004]

I have never contradicted myself. I accept that Israel is here to stay, despite the questionable way it was formed. What I don't agree with are the illegal settlements, the occupation and the land annexation....

This would have more credibility coming from a country other than Canada (or the United States).

[Hudson Jones]

The colonel never referred to sexual assault or rape ever. Hudson Jones has removed the actual context as to what he was referring to and read in something no Rabbia can ever condone or would condone.

Sure he didn't. Just like this rabbi didn't say gentile babies are okay to be killed, or just like Palestinian children are not frequently kidnapped, put in prisons without due process and in some cases tortured:

West Bank Rabbi: Jews Can Kill Gentiles Who Threaten Israel

Book by Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro of Yitzhar permits even the murder of babies and children who pose threat.

Perhaps it's this mindset, where the mistreatment of others, doesn't matter how old they are, has become okay within Zionism. This is why we are seeing so many Palestinian children being kidnapped by the IDF in the middle of the night and then taken to prisons and held indefinitely.

Israel government 'tortures' children by keeping them in cages

The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI) published a report which claimed children suspected of minor crimes were subjected to “public caging”, threats and acts of sexual violence and military trials without representation.

This is what many Zionists defend and in some cases, deny.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Hudson Jones

[GostHacked]

I have never contradicted myself. I accept that Israel is here to stay, despite the questionable way it was formed. What I don't agree with are the illegal settlements, the occupation and the land annexation. For the sake of moving forward, the 1967 internationally recognized border should be forced on Israel. The settlements should be removed or there should be some kind of agreed upon land swap and the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians should be dealt with in a reasonable and just way. Either be allowed to go back to their homes and/or given compensation and other land to live in.

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Rue]

Sure he didn't. Just like this rabbi didn't say gentile babies are okay to be killed, or just like Palestinian children are not frequently kidnapped, put in prisons without due process and in some cases tortured:

West Bank Rabbi: Jews Can Kill Gentiles Who Threaten Israel

Book by Rabbi Yitzhak Shapiro of Yitzhar permits even the murder of babies and children who pose threat.

Perhaps it's this mindset, where the mistreatment of others, doesn't matter how old they are, has become okay within Zionism. This is why we are seeing so many Palestinian children being kidnapped by the IDF in the middle of the night and then taken to prisons and held indefinitely.

Israel government 'tortures' children by keeping them in cages

The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel (PCATI) published a report which claimed children suspected of minor crimes were subjected to “public caging”, threats and acts of sexual violence and military trials without representation.

This is what many Zionists defend and in some cases, deny.

Your answer is patently and blatantly dishonest.

To start with provide the words from the IDF Colonel stating its permissable to rape people. Go on. They don't exist. You have inferred that meaning-he never said that nor has any Rabbiah because rape under no circumstance is acceptable under Judaism. You spread a lie that this Colonel Rabiah said this to dishonestly make false smeers to insult all Jews. I call your words out as an out and out lie.

Now provide the words.

As for your attempt to focus attention away from your lie and introduce the extremist views of a West Bank Rabbiah who does not speak for Israelis or their government or their Rabbiah you again show this forum how you try take the words of an extremist idiot and smeer all Jews, all Israelis, al Zionists with them.

Hudson Jones you've been called out as a liar. Produce the words. Trying to change the subject to focus away from your lie will not undo what you said. You've tried this tactic time and time again with me and others when you have been caught misrepresenting what was actually said.

Your record and the hatred in words you spew on this forum speak for themselves.

[Rue]

Sounds reasonable to me.

Yah it would. In your world leaving terrorists on the West Bank including the PA and Hamas closer to Israel and in a continuing state of war to kill all its people and turn it back into a Muslim state would sound reasonable.

Your knee jerk response to this drivel speaks for itself

Go on. You feel the need to echo this anti semitic drivel. Post one word, one damn word from Marcus where he has referred to recognizing the rights of Jews to live in a Jewish state with pre 1967 borders. Go on.

Provide one word for him where he says the PA and Hamas should disarm as should all other terrorists and they and the Arab league recognize Israel as a Jewisg state in its pre 1967 borders.

Finish it.

Go on explain how its resonable for Israel to withdraw to pre 1967 borders making it inches away for terrorists dedicated to destroying it, reasonable.

What a joke for you to echo this crap.

Don't insult my intelligence pretending Marcus or terrorist and Muslim extremist anti Israeli son this board ever at any time have xaid they recognize a pre 1967 border Jewish state.

You know damn well they do not recognize a Jewish state in Israel and Hamas and the PA say openly the withrawawl to 1967 borders is the first stage in taking back Israel.

Reasonable.

What a joke for you to try cheer lead such anti semitic drivel.

After all this time for you to pretend Marcus recognizes the right of Jews to have a Jewish state with 1967 borders is repugnant and you play along as a shill to his words empowering his anti semitic drivel.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Rue

[GostHacked]

It's not a knee jerk reaction. You even agree the settlements are a huge issue for Israel and Palestine alike, but that does not stop you from telling others off when they talk about it.

[jacee]

This thread is about the fascist direction Israel is going towards. I'm more than happy to repeat that many Jews are against the cancerous ideology of Zionism. In fact, many of the leaders in the fight against Zionism are Jewish. It's great to see so many Jews outside of Israel expressing their disgust of Israel's actions.

Israel's actions are disgusting, devious and genocidal. Who the hell can be proud of cutting off people's water supply!!

/israel-water-cuts-west-bank-full-crisis-mode-

And I too am glad to see Jewish leaders inside and outside Israel denouncing the current Israeli government's descent into fascism.

Israeli fascists are currently Israel's own worst enemy.

Those who denounce the illegal settlements must also denounce the control that settlers currently impose on all Israelis, dragging the whole country into the role of fascist oppressors.

.

Edited June 23, 2016 by jacee

[Big Guy]

I keep reading the term "you words speak for themselves". Well, I hope they do. The problem is that too often in this part of the board some members are unable to hear and understand them. Opinions stay opinions - points of view. Facts and actions, like words, also speak for themselves. So be it.

[Big Guy]

Netanyahu is a war criminal who should be brought to trial in the world court. He is on his way to Italy where he will again try to BS his way out of reality:

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/06/netanyahu-fly-rome-head-criticism-160623142941334.html

This guy, and his entourage, should be arrested the moment they step off that airplane and imprisoned until a world court can deal with them. Canada should be ashamed to have any association with Israel.

[Rue]

It's not a knee jerk reaction. You even agree the settlements are a huge issue for Israel and Palestine alike, but that does not stop you from telling others off when they talk about it.

It was and so is the above comment because at this point you know damn well what I said is true. Marcus does not and will never recognize a Jewish state in pre 1967 Israel. That is not reasonable. Neither is it reasonable for the Arab League to refuse to recognize a Jewish state and no it is not reasonable for the PA or Hamas to maintain constitutions calling for turning Israel back into a Muslim state with war and violence and broadcasting this message daily by t.v., radio and in their newspapers.

[Rue]

The attempts by the same few anti Israelis on this board to flood it with anti Israel threads and subjective name calling speaks for itself. So does their selective silence as to the war crimes of ISIS, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan.

Their selective silence as to the genocide of Yazidis, Kurds, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians, the massacres and continual attacks on Christians, Druze, Jews and the complicity of the Arab League in thousands of political murders, loudly speaks for itself.

The attempt to dettract from Muslim radical extremism and the havoc and rampant death and misery it has spread across the Middle East and World by trying to refocus on insulting Israel and calling it names and now engaging in childish name calling of Netanyahu is transparent.

Its also interesting. If I were to call Jacee the same things she calls Netanyahu I would be censored for a personal attack because it supposedly prevents civil dialogue. On the other hand its acceptable on this board to engage in that language she does against Netyanyahu but an offence leading to censorship if one calls Justin Trudeau Justine on this board.

Nothing at this point surprises me as to the depths of name calling and diatribes against Israel passed off on this board as discussion.

The name calling on this thread is not about debating views. It simply expresses hatred. If Netanyahu was a Muslim political leader or terorist would Jacee speak out as she does against him? Show me her threads calling out the leaders of Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iran. Saudi Arabia, Hamas, PA, by name and calling them the same names for killing people and violating human rights.

Has she ever written and provided the names of the leaders of Muslim nations and Muslim terrorist cells that as we speak wipe people out? Of course not.

Then how many times do we hear the same lame excuse that its credible to only single out Netanyahu and these name callers do not have provide a balanced discussion as to the state of affairs in the countries that surround Israel and as we speak trying to kill its citizens? Balanced discusion, No their response is they do not have to nor will they. Their agenda is simply to repeat the same one sided diatribes, lover and over and over with zero solutions, but the same old ultimatum, wipe out Israel as a Jewish state.

Tired, worn out, recycled anti semitic drivel.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

Your answer is patently and blatantly dishonest.

To start with provide the words from the IDF Colonel stating its permissable to rape people.

It is what was implied and this point was clearly stated. The implication is the conclusion that the "self-hating Jew" came up with who wrote the article. The woman asked a question about rape during war and the rabbi responded with, (paraphrasing here) "yeah, anything goes during war". Did he say "No! You should not rape! It's not okay to rape!"??? He didn't.

The rest of the information I shared shows exactly the attitude of many militant Zionists. This disgusting viewpoint that as long as they're not Jews, you can do what you want to achieve your agenda has been demonstrated time and time again. The disgusting acts by Zionists have been going on for decades. This was apparent during the Nakba, when hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were driven out of their homes. Many were killed or injured by Jewish terrorists who came in with the mentality that we see in ISIS today.

More recently, we saw Zionist settlers, burning a whole family in their home. The reaction and the so-called punishment they received is a good indication of what's okay to do in Zionism.

So go ahead, deny the obvious and try to wiggle yourself out of confronting the truth about the ugliness of Zionism.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Hudson Jones

[Bonam]

Canada should be ashamed to have any association with Israel.

But should proudly associate with Iran.... because Big Guy says so.

[GostHacked]

The attempts by the same few anti Israelis on this board to flood it with anti Israel threads and subjective name calling speaks for itself. So does their selective silence as to the war crimes of ISIS, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan.

Tired, worn out, recycled anti semitic drivel.

Right, the anti-semite card again .. wins every time. Carry on. Total drivel.

[Rue]

It is what was implied and this point was clearly stated. The implication is the conclusion that the "self-hating Jew" came up with who wrote the article. The woman asked a question about rape during war and the rabbi responded with, (paraphrasing here) "yeah, anything goes during war". Did he say "No! You should not rape! It's not okay to rape!"??? He didn't.

In your own words you have now admitted the Israeli Colone- Rabbia never said it was acceptable to rape someone and yiu "inferred" it from what he did not say.

In otherwords you have admitted you fabricated it on the above line of reasoning you provided. You made it up. You invented it.

I believe in so doing you engaged in a blatant misrepresentation some would call an out and out lie and you don't even have the decency to apologize but instead remain petulant and steadfast in trying to justify your fabrication.

You in fact have no words from this Rabbia or any Rabbia and for that matter anyone in the IDF, Israel, from Zionists and Jews, who condone rape-you made it up.

Your exercise is clear in who it attempts to smeer.

This is why Hudson Jones I take the time to confront what you say and reveal it for what it is-hateful, subjective, misrepresentations of Judaism, the role of Rabbias, Israelis, Zionists and the IDF using such tactics as the above.

Your fabrication is hateful. Your attempt to stereotype the above as condoning rape lowers the calibre of discussion on this board.

I urge readers to consider your words for what they are-anti semitic sewage.

[Rue]

Right, the anti-semite card again .. wins every time. Carry on. Total drivel.

This thread flows with anti semitic drivel and I have explained why.

You want to defend it ...go on swim in the sewage... suggest to me how Marcus' position is reasonable when you know he has repeatedly stated he was Israel removed from the Middle East as a JEWISH state and by violence if necessary. I note you can't come back and show me one post from him that states he supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Lol.

Hell ask him for one. Please. Prove me wrong. Lol.

Please tell me how Hudson Jones fabricating (he claims he implied a meaning from what was NOT said) that an Israeli Colonel Rabbia condoned rape is reasonable and not anti semitic drivel. Show me how that does not smeer Judaism as a religion not just the IDF.

When tthese threads and these posts contain words and references and opinions that insult and attack and incite hatred against Jews because we choose to have a Jewish country and want to live as Jewish citizens of that country you bet I will call that out for what it is hateful, blatant anti semitism precisely because it attacks Jews for being Jews and it maintains that we are not equal to any other people of the world including Muslims.

Its blatantly anti semitic to argue a Muslim can have a Muslim state but a Jew can't have a Jewish state, Period. Deny it all you want, defend the agenda and words of Marcus, Big Guy, Eye, Kactus,Hudson Jones.

The words you embrace are blatant in their texture, composite make up and odor.

Lol knock yoursel out, pass these words off as fresh clean flowing water from the river of truth and purity. Hah.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Rue

[Big Guy]

But should proudly associate with Iran.... because Big Guy says so.

No, we should associate with Iran because we need a stable partner in the Middle East and Israel will drag us into a needless war. Also, trade with Iran is a good thing for the Canadian economy just like trade with China, Russia etc. How proud are we with trade with China, Russia, Vietnam ...?

[jacee]

This thread flows with anti semitic drivel and I have explained why.

You want to defend it ...go on swim in the sewage... suggest to me how Marcus' position is reasonable when you know he has repeatedly stated he was Israel removed from the Middle East as a JEWISH state and by violence if necessary. I note you can't come back and show me one post from him that states he supports Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. Lol.

Hell ask him for one. Please. Prove me wrong. Lol.

Please tell me how Hudson Jones fabricating (he claims he implied a meaning from what was NOT said) that an Israeli Colonel Rabbia condoned rape is reasonable and not anti semitic drivel. Show me how that does not smeer Judaism as a religion not just the IDF.

When tthese threads and these posts contain words and references and opinions that insult and attack and incite hatred against Jews because we choose to have a Jewish country and want to live as Jewish citizens of that country you bet I will call that out for what it is hateful, blatant anti semitism precisely because it attacks Jews for being Jews and it maintains that we are not equal to any other people of the world including Muslims.

Its blatantly anti semitic to argue a Muslim can have a Muslim state but a Jew can't have a Jewish state, Period. Deny it all you want, defend the agenda and words of Marcus, Big Guy, Eye, Kactus,Hudson Jones.

The words you embrace are blatant in their texture, composite make up and odor.

Lol knock yoursel out, pass these words off as fresh clean flowing water from the river of truth and purity. Hah.

There's a lot of nonsense there, Rue.

I am aware that anti-semitism is still very much characteristic of white supremacists, and some do post here.

However, they are also anti-Muslim.

Don't confuse that with others who are neither anti-semitic nor anti-Muslim ... who abhor the violence against civilians and demand accountability.

BDS is not a hate crime.

I don't have to support Israel's right to be a Jewish state, if that means discrimination against non-Jews.

I don't 'support' Muslim states, or any religious state, for the same reason.

But they don't care what I think, don't demand that I support them.

Neither can Israel ... or you ... demand that of me or anyone else.

You can't even demand that of Israelis.

.

Edited June 26, 2016 by jacee

[Rue]

Jacee I find your response lacking in any credibility when read in sum with the totality of your other responses.

It is my opinion the totality of your responses and the comments on this board show silence as to Muslim states being Muslim and do not state they should be disbanded along with Israel.

Provide one thread you started where you stated Muslim states should be disbanded as being Muslim and dhimmitude and Muslim terrorism should be disbanded

Spare me posing as a purveyor of neutral standards when it comes to criticizing Muslim states and the Jewish state.

Your characterization that by being a Jewish state Israel discriminates against non Jews and that is why you don't support it in my opinion is a lame effort in trying to justifying you discriminating against Jews. You discriminate against Jews because you allege they discriminate. Brilliant logic and ironically you see non absurdity in such an argument.

Your lack of credibility tring to rationalize your discriminating against Jews for expressing their identity through a state is further compounded by the fact that you are:

i-well aware that laws of Israel provide Muslims all the same legal rights as Jews and which Jews do not have in one Muslim state in the world-Muslim Israelis own land in Israel, Jews can not in Muslim states. Muslims in Israel have their own religious and family courts. They vote for Knesset members. They vote and appoint Mayors. They refuse to pay municipal taxes. They go to and have their human rights cases and rights enforced in Israeli courts and over 125 human rights organizations providing them free legal advice in Israel. They are free to write articles, speak out loud and engage in comment on t.v. and radio that criticizes Israel in every way shape and form. The only laws that discriminate in Israel discriminate against all Israelis equally because they are security laws made necessary by radical Muslim terrorists inside and outside Israel who would destroy it.

You would know how Jewish Israelis face the same restrains you think only Muslim Israelis do if you went to Israel. You've never been there. You have no clue, not a clue how Muslim Israelis live compared to Jews in Muslim countries. Not a clue.

Your assumption because a state is Jewish it automatically discriminates against Muslim citizens of Israel is a crock. Its a pretext for you to rationalize making false stereotypes about Jewish Israelis and who they are Jewish citizens. Your stereotypes are based on hateful stereotypes that insult, debase, and criminalize Jews for choosing to express their identity through statehood.

You do not condone dhimmitude and how it forced Jews to flee to Israel. You don't acknowledge that Israel came about precisely because the Christian and Muslim worlds discriminated and tried to wipe Jews forcing them to start a state to protect themselves from extinction. You conveniently skip that part of history or the thousands of years of dead Jews at the hands of Christians and Muslims.

In your world Jews couldn't possibly have started Israel to flee discrimination-Jews in your world can only be evil oppressors not simply people who had to defend themselves from extinction. In your world you skip the existential crisis that forced Jews back to whence they came. In your world they just showed up in the Middle East one day because they had nothing better to do then pick on Muslims.

Save it.

Save your lame words that try justify you engaging in disriminatory and hateful stereotypes against Jews because they chose live in their own state.

Spare me. You justify your discriminating against Jews for having a state but you don't use that standard for Christians or Muslims or anyone else.

Yah trot out all your threads condemning Muslim terrorism, Muslim state treatment of non Muslims dhimmitude. Go on trot them out. Right.

Deny it all you want, you use a double standard against Jews you do not use with Muslims.

As such I find your response to me a joke and as much a joke as your attempt on another thread to try argue with me your discrimination against Jews for having created a state is not based on a double standard against Jews but based solely on the reason you subjectively dictate that Jews when they become Jewish state citizens can't treat non Jewish Israelis fairly. That is a lie. Its based on the anti semitic notion that a Jew with Jewish state citizenship discriminates against non Jews. That is a false and hateful stereotype of Jews.

Justify it, condone it, apologize for it, try rationalize it as reasonable, I don't give a damn. Its false and its hateful. Its based on hate. Its based on an ignorant stereotype you won't question and just accept and parrot.

Signed, sealed and delivered.

Kaboom and powee.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Rue

[eyeball]

I hate the ME. I wish an asteroid would fall on it.