Former Israeli PM on Israel's credibility + Fascism

[Argus]

That's not what I'm saying

In fact, it is. You are suggesting the legitimacy of the Jews is negligible because their residency there (in modern times) is predated by the Arabs. If one accepts that suggestion, then one must also accept the corollary regarding immigrants to Canada. Unless, of course, one wishes to discard all logic.

[herples]

You claimed he wasn't involved in those 5,000,000 when he was fully a part of it.

I claimed he didn't exterminate 5,000,000 Jews. He gave his support to the Nazis and contributed to the demise of some people but he wasn't the sole exterminator of the 5,000,000 nor responsible for all 5,000,000 people killed by the Nazis.

[Argus]

and another

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_nationalism

You left off the cite which preceded the one you posted.

Zionist ambitions were increasingly identified as a threat by Palestinian leaders, while cases of purchase of lands by Zionist settlers and the subsequent eviction of Palestinian peasants aggravated the issue. This anti-Zionist trend became linked to anti-British resistance, to form a nationalist movement quite particular and separate from the pan-Arab trend that was gaining strength in the Arab world, and would later be headed by Nasser, Ben Bella and other anticolonial leaders.

So really all these groups were fighting was rule by infidels and the legal movement of Jews purchasing land. In other words, their 'nationalism' was more a response to infidels than any coherent thought of Palestinians as a unique people in need of their own nation.

[marcus]

In fact, it is. You are suggesting the legitimacy of the Jews is negligible because their residency there (in modern times) is predated by the Arabs. If one accepts that suggestion, then one must also accept the corollary regarding immigrants to Canada. Unless, of course, one wishes to discard all logic.

No. It's also not what I suggested. You are still unable to follow.

[herples]

You left off the cite which preceded the one you posted.

Zionist ambitions were increasingly identified as a threat by Palestinian leaders, while cases of purchase of lands by Zionist settlers and the subsequent eviction of Palestinian peasants aggravated the issue. This anti-Zionist trend became linked to anti-British resistance, to form a nationalist movement quite particular and separate from the pan-Arab trend that was gaining strength in the Arab world, and would later be headed by Nasser, Ben Bella and other anticolonial leaders.

So really all these groups were fighting was rule by infidels and the legal movement of Jews purchasing land. In other words, their 'nationalism' was more a response to infidels than any coherent thought of Palestinians as a unique people in need of their own nation.

I am not arguing about the reasons for Palestinian nationalism just when it originated and it technically originated before 1920, earlier if you consider it nothing more than a subset of Arab nationalism.

[Big Guy]

Oh come now! You read all my posts! I've been getting under your skin since you arrived, and many times you have, in effect, stormed out of the room vowing to henceforth ignore me as unworthy.

But you never do.

Your long, boastful insult-laden post doesn't disguise the fact you have no answer to the truth. You're a venomous partisan without a thought for the other side of any argument, and all here know it. To declare yourself impartial is the height of delusional.

You are absolutely correct. I study every one of your unique expressions of brilliance and often choose to turn my back on you - I do not leave the room. I am what I am.

You are what you are. I find you rude, misinformed, bigoted and not a very nice person as do most other posters here. I have no idea why you continue to follow me around the board unless it is to get more exposure. You certainly have shown that you have no knowledge of international issues but continue to jump in with both feet in your mouth. Please stay on those air head issues you seem so adept at criticizing.

Shooo, shooo go away. I wish there was a digital pesky poster swatter with which I could rid my shadow of you. I have created one and consider yourself swatted.

Go away.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Big Guy

[Argus]

I am not arguing about the reasons for Palestinian nationalism just when it originated and it technically originated before 1920, earlier if you consider it nothing more than a subset of Arab nationalism.

If their motivation is hatred of Jews, what then is really the difference between them and the Nazis? The Nazis were nationalists, too, after all.

[DogOnPorch]

If their motivation is hatred of Jews, what then is really the difference between them and the Nazis? The Nazis were nationalists, too, after all.

The Nazis even sent Eichmann to meet the fellow before WW2 started...

[Argus]

You are absolutely correct. I study every one of your unique expressions of brilliance

If only you had a slightly open mind you might actually learn something from them.

I have no idea why you continue to follow me around the board

Don't flatter yourself, bubba. I was here long before you and I'll still be here when you're gone.

You certainly have shown that you have no knowledge of international issues

Given the totality of your 'knowledge' of international issues comes from Russian TV and Al-Jazeera that truly is a laughable statement.

Go away.

Now you're simply being petulant.

[herples]

If their motivation is hatred of Jews, what then is really the difference between them and the Nazis? The Nazis were nationalists, too, after all.

Their motivation for the hatred of Jews comes from what the Palestinian people see as encroachment of their land from the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the middle of their land. The Nazi motivation was from what the German peoples belief that Jews cause Germany to fail and the race concept that was a part of the Nazi ideas.

Nationalism tends to take an us vs. them view we have seen it in Spain and Italy.

[herples]

The Nazis even sent Eichmann to meet the fellow before WW2 started...

Cite?

[DogOnPorch]

I claimed he didn't exterminate 5,000,000 Jews. He gave his support to the Nazis and contributed to the demise of some people but he wasn't the sole exterminator of the 5,000,000 nor responsible for all 5,000,000 people killed by the Nazis.

So that's the game you play.

I put it at around 500,000-750,000 Jews, Roma, Serbs, etc died due to the decision to not allow Axis Minor countries to deport their Jewish populations to Turkey.

[DogOnPorch]

Cite?

Already cited to a similar poster.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-016-03.html

[DogOnPorch]

Their motivation for the hatred of Jews comes from what the Palestinian people see as encroachment of their land from the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the middle of their land. The Nazi motivation was from what the German peoples belief that Jews cause Germany to fail and the race concept that was a part of the Nazi ideas.

Nationalism tends to take an us vs. them view we have seen it in Spain and Italy.

Jew hate is in the Quran....Jews are THE WORST of people and are cursed by Allah. The Mufti liked that...

[Argus]

Their motivation for the hatred of Jews comes from what the Palestinian people see as encroachment of their land from the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the middle of their land. The Nazi motivation was from what the German peoples belief that Jews cause Germany to fail and the race concept that was a part of the Nazi ideas.

But why should the Palestinians, who were not a people of any kind then, care about Jews moving in, except that they didn't like Jews to begin with, of course. The Jews are infidels, and the Koran provides any number of guides and requirements for being intolerant towards infidels in general, and Jews in particular. Thus their anti-Jewish activities did not start with Zionism, but greatly pre-dated it.

Nationalism tends to take an us vs. them view we have seen it in Spain and Italy.

And how is Arab nationalism any different? Or Muslim chauvinism, for that matter? The middle east is considered theirs by Muslims (dar al-Islam). No nation can be ruled by other than Muslims there. That philosophy lies behind their instant attack on Israel when it was created, and their continuing refusal to make peace.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Argus

[DogOnPorch]

Thus their anti-Jewish activities did not start with Zionism, but greatly pre-dated it.

Yes indeed...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1834_looting_of_Safed

Let's go back a wee bit further so Zionism isn't even a twinkle in a Jew's eye.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1517_Safed_attacks

Because they were Jews.

[herples]

So that's the game you play.

I put it at around 500,000-750,000 Jews, Roma, Serbs, etc died due to the decision to not allow Axis Minor countries to deport their Jewish populations to Turkey.

Well you can put any figure you want it doesn't change the fact that people solely responsible for the extermination of the Jews were the Nazis, a German group.

[DogOnPorch]

And...a Jew didn't need to be in zee ol' Holy Land to get the torch. For example...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1066_Granada_massacre

[DogOnPorch]

Well you can put any figure you want it doesn't change the fact that people solely responsible for the extermination of the Jews were the Nazis, a German group.

Nazis came from all backgrounds. From Norway to the Middle East.

[herples]

Already cited to a similar poster.

http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/Session-016-03.html

n the autumn of 1937, Adolf Eichmann and Herbert Hagen, previously Sturmbannfuehrer in Paris, who at that time worked in the Jewish Department of the SD, arranged a journey to Palestine and Egypt. This trip was intended to include, incidentally, securing of general information on Zionist questions, and also a visit to the Grand Mufti, and Dr. Reichert was to have acted as intermediary in arranging it. But the visit did not materialize since the British authorities restricted the stay of Eichmann and Hagen to 48 hours, despite their tourist visas. In Cairo the two of them then had discussions with Arab nationalists - amongst them a journalist from Jerusalem who belonged to the circle of the Grand Mufti.

After the Mufti al-Husseini arrived in Germany, he paid a visit to Himmler. A short while thereafter the Grand Mufti visited the director of the Jewish Department at the Gestapo Bureau IV, Obersturmbannfuehrer Adolf Eichmann, in his office in Berlin, 116 Kurfuerstenstrasse. I no longer remember the exact date of the visit. Possibly it was the end of 1941 or the beginning of 1942.

[DogOnPorch]

Yes...I already know you want to exonerate the Nazi and turn him into George Washington. Not gonna fly.

[herples]

Nazis came from all backgrounds. From Norway to the Middle East.

But why should the Palestinians, who were not a people of any kind then, care about Jews moving in, except that they didn't like Jews to begin with, of course. The Jews are infidels, and the Koran provides any number of guides and requirements for being intolerant towards infidels in general, and Jews in particular. Thus their anti-Jewish activities did not start with Zionism, but greatly pre-dated it.

And how is Arab nationalism any different? Or Muslim chauvinism, for that matter? The middle east is considered theirs by Muslims (dar al-Islam). No nation can be ruled by other than Muslims there. That philosophy lies behind their instant attack on Israel when it was created, and their continuing refusal to make peace.

The dislike of Jews started when the British carved a piece of land out for the Jewish people. Considering Jews were living in middle east countries before certainly it wasn't as prevalent or as strong as it is today. Same in Europe.

[DogOnPorch]

The dislike of Jews started when the British carved a piece of land out for the Jewish people. Considering Jews were living in middle east countries before certainly it wasn't as prevalent or as strong as it is today. Same in Europe.

Already proven wrong...see: Safed Pogroms.

[herples]

Yes...I already know you want to exonerate the Nazi and turn him into George Washington. Not gonna fly.

You have made similar strawman arguments similar to this one in this thread to me and it does nothing to help whatever position it is you are trying to defend.

[herples]

Already proven wrong...see: Safed Pogroms.

The view that the riot's impact on the Jews of Safed was severe is contested

from the first paragraph of the article you posted.