America under President Trump

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

Absolutely juvenile in response.  I'll move on.

 

I accept your surrender.

My comment: you can have free universal health care or the best health care...not both

...stands.

[GostHacked]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

I accept your surrender.

My comment: you can have free universal health care or the best health care...not both

...stands.

False choices we can have both.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, GostHacked said:

False choices we can have both.

 

Impossible according to the law of averages. One or the other.

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

I accept your surrender.

My comment: you can have free universal health care or the best health care...not both

...stands.

Somalia strategy! I thought that was a S-hole country. 

[DogOnPorch]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Somalia strategy! I thought that was a S-hole country. 

 

You're free to call Somalia what you like.

It doesn't change a thing re: my position. You can give everybody the same health care...thus the law of averages...or exclusive health care. Not BOTH...

It's impossible.

However, Lefties think 2+2=5...so anything is possible in your world.

Anyways...my challenge to you is the same: complain to Trump that he's a big blue meanie...pardon...orange meanie...and should let you into the USA for free health care...presumably with the doctors of your choice. Let us know the results.

I predict you'll be summarily rejected.

[-TSS-]

If and when Trump gets re-elected it is not even because people would be satisfied with him but because the alternative is far worse. Two too old men one of whom is a creep, two women one of whom thinks she is an indian.

Elections are always won on the centre-ground while keeping hold of your core-supporters on either side of the political spectrum. 

[GostHacked]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-china-tariffs-1.5233295

Quote

U.S. and Chinese negotiators ended two days of talks in Shanghai on Wednesday with little sign of progress, although both countries described the negotiations as constructive. Another round of meetings between the negotiators has been scheduled for September.

The U.S. and China have been locked in a trade war marked by tit-for-tat tariffs since last year. The tensions have disrupted global supply chains and roiled financial markets.

USA raised tariffs, then China did, then the USA did, then China did  then the USA did ......   this is the definition of a trade war.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/trump-china-tariffs-1.5233295

USA raised tariffs, then China did, then the USA did, then China did  then the USA did ......   this is the definition of a trade war.

Wippee. Considering the alternatives between these two, trade war sounds pretty darn good to me.

[GostHacked]

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Wippee. Considering the alternatives between these two, trade war sounds pretty darn good to me.

That means the cheap products from China that you are used to are going to cost a lot more.  Trade wars can and have let to actual war.

[OftenWrong]

11 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

That means the cheap products from China that you are used to are going to cost a lot more.

Good, I hate that shit. So does everyone else I know. Not only is it the cheapest of crap that can be made, it's made by some poor, uneducated sad sack. Production cost, 10 cents, because they don't need to dispose of the waste in a responsible manner. Neither do they need safety standards for their employees.

So now, you go on and tell me why I should want to buy that crap, and keep them in business. Go on...

Quote

Trade wars can and have let to actual war.

Very doubtful and there is no indication of hostility or threats. No need to lose sleep over it.
Per your own post,

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

both countries described the negotiations as constructive. Another round of meetings between the negotiators has been scheduled for September.

To me that sounds like they had a good meeting and now just need to go home for a while, and talk it over with the big boss. They'll be right back.

[DogOnPorch]

16 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Trade wars can and have let to actual war.

 

Such as? What are the examples?

[GostHacked]

25 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Good, I hate that shit.

Maybe take a look at your electronic devices and see where they were made.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

Such as? What are the examples?

Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act causes the Great Depression, Wiemar Germany, which was being propped up by Wall Street, collapses into financial catastrophe as a direct result, the National Socialists rise to power in the backlash, Hitler is at first a bulwark against Communism, and Mussolini in North Africa, but when Hitler flips to Mussolini's side, Germany is suddenly astride the route through Suez to India, Indochina and the Far East, Britain and France then take the first opportunity to declare war on Germany to try to defend their Empires, presto, World War Two.

[Dougie93]

See, the hysterical liberal media party likes to assert that Trump is the great aberration, that this brand of GOP has never existed before, but like most things the liberal media party asserts, that is not actually true, this is the GOP as it was in the 1920's and 30's, Warren G. Harding, Calvin Coolidge, Herbert Hoover; we've been here before.

The 1920s version of MAGA was called Return to Normalcy.  Woodrow Wilson was Obama,  Warren Harding was Trump.

In the 1920's it was the Industrial Age displacing agrarian America, now it is the Information Age displacing industrial America, but the reaction is the same.

Edited August 2, 2019 by Dougie93

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Maybe take a look at your electronic devices and see where they were made.

Apparently Chinese technology comes with spyware already written right into the BIOS. That's why Trump has banned use of technology by Huawei within the US. I'm fine with Canada doing likewise, if our government has the guts. But we don't.

Chinese technology? To the devil with you I say!

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Apparently Chinese technology comes with spyware already written right into the BIOS. That's why Trump has banned use of technology by Huawei within the US. I'm fine with Canada doing likewise, if our government has the guts. But we don't.

It's not an issue of guts, the Liberal Party of Canada, which includes the NDP, Green and Cuckservative wings of the Liberal Party of Canada, are bought and paid for cronies of the Chinese Communist Party elites, which is why the Americans had Meng Wanzhou arrested without running it past Ottawa, as for all intents and purposes, Canada has become a rogue state fifth column within the Five Eyes perimeter.   The British are also not as trusted as they were, because they are being bought off by the Chinese too.

[eyeball]

6 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Good, I hate that shit. So does everyone else I know. Not only is it the cheapest of crap that can be made, it's made by some poor, uneducated sad sack. Production cost, 10 cents, because they don't need to dispose of the waste in a responsible manner. Neither do they need safety standards for their employees.

So now, you go on and tell me why I should want to buy that crap, and keep them in business. Go on...

So they have a reason to buy and burn our Tar Sands oil - the worst oil in the world for CO2 emissions.  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you in favour of selling as much TS oil to China as we can possibly dig up?

[OftenWrong]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you in favour of selling as much TS oil to China as we can possibly dig up?

If I were to correct you every time you're wrong, I'd be a rather busy fellow.

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

If I were to correct you every time you're wrong, I'd be a rather busy fellow.

Big if. In the meantime I still stand to be corrected.

[OftenWrong]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In the meantime I still stand to be corrected.

Unrequited expectations are a terrible thing, aren't they.

[eyeball]

6 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Unrequited expectations are a terrible thing, aren't they.

I suppose in the meantime you have your answer.  Maybe it wasn't what you expected.

[GostHacked]

11 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Apparently Chinese technology comes with spyware already written right into the BIOS. That's why Trump has banned use of technology by Huawei within the US. I'm fine with Canada doing likewise, if our government has the guts. But we don't.

Chinese technology? To the devil with you I say!

My LG and AOC and DELL computer monitors,  made in China.

My mouse and keyboard,  made in China.

My KRK studio speakers,  made in China.

My Mackie mixer, my Denon DJ deck, my Akai midi keyboards and devices , my Launchpad, my Korg boxes , ALL made in China.

My web cams,  again, made in China.

Seriously take a look at your electronics, all of them, and see where they were made. You are going to find the majority if it comes from China.

Go into an electronics store and check the labels. You are going to be in for a shock. Get ready to pay a lot more for that stuff, or simply not buy it at all because one cannot afford it.  But that's a result of the USA outsourcing their manufacturing to nations like China.

Apple designed in the USA, made in China.

Presonus,  designed and engineered in the USA,  made in China.

Trump is not solving anything by initiating trade wars with other nations without having a solution to bring manufacturing back to the USA and produce products that are as inexpensive as the Chinese products.  He has no plan here.

[OftenWrong]

13 hours ago, GostHacked said:

Trump is not solving anything by initiating trade wars with other nations without having a solution to bring manufacturing back to the USA and produce products that are as inexpensive as the Chinese products.  He has no plan here.

Fear not, mighty console warrior. You will still be able to buy your precious Chinese computers and smartphones that will soon be smarter than you. Donald Trump is just shaking things up a little. The road to a better deal will be long and hard, this late in the game. That's why it takes a real man to step forward and finally say, enough. 

[Zeitgeist]

On 8/2/2019 at 4:10 AM, Dougie93 said:

Hawley-Smoot Tariff Act causes the Great Depression, Wiemar Germany, which was being propped up by Wall Street, collapses into financial catastrophe as a direct result, the National Socialists rise to power in the backlash, Hitler is at first a bulwark against Communism, and Mussolini in North Africa, but when Hitler flips to Mussolini's side, Germany is suddenly astride the route through Suez to India, Indochina and the Far East, Britain and France then take the first opportunity to declare war on Germany to try to defend their Empires, presto, World War Two.

You forgot the small detail of Germany invading Poland (after Sudetenland, Alsace-Loraine, and building massive armaments outside the paramaters of the Treaty of Versailles).  

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

Fear not, mighty console warrior. You will still be able to buy your precious Chinese computers and smartphones that will soon be smarter than you. Donald Trump is just shaking things up a little. The road to a better deal will be long and hard, this late in the game. That's why it takes a real man to step forward and finally say, enough. 

But tariffs aren’t the way to do it.  They just throw a tax on consumer goods.  The better way is to heighten the rules on trade.  That was the original purpose of the WTO.  You want to trade, meet these minimum standards on wages, environment, human rights, etc.   Choose lower standards and pay a penalty or get shut out of trade with the markets that buy goods.  Instead of strengthening the rules and their enforcement, Trump has used the blunt instrument of tariffs, which will only be de escalated under what conditions, that China and others import more stuff at higher prices that China already produces more cheaply?  Strange way to re-engineer behaviour.  If Chinese goods become too expensive for Americans because of the tariffs, then the production just shifts to another low cost jurisdiction.  It becomes an expensive game of Whack a Mole that doesn’t change behaviour.  Countries that can’t impose enough counter-tariffs to get the US to reduce tariffs don’t have a playbook to fix the problem. It leads to aggression and resentment.  

Edited August 3, 2019 by Zeitgeist