Islamophobia in Canada

[Jariax]

As I said, I'm not venturing into the Israeli/Palestinian 'debate' as I don't want to take on five hundred Israeli apologists all armed with the same talking points. 

[PIK]

Just now, Jariax said:

As I said, I'm not venturing into the Israeli/Palestinian 'debate' as I don't want to take on five hundred Israeli apologists all armed with the same talking points. 

That is because everyone that did lost. How much damage did arafat do to his own people. A deal was there and he said no.

[Argus]

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

It's nice that you differentiate between Muslims and their governments. It would be nice if you differentiated between individual governments, instead of lumping all Muslim governments/regimes into one pile. 

He did. He asked you to name the ones - there are 57 - which are kind and treat other nations well and don't discriminate or take advantage or brutalize or abuse.

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

Generally, theocracies are not a good form of government, whether they are Muslim, Christian, Jewish or other.

True, but only a few Muslim states are run by theocracies. What's the excuse for the rest?

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

In terms of fairness, I'm referring to a few specific things. 

1) The overthrow of the democratically elected government in Iran. 

People mention this endlessly. I guess because it's the only democratic government on earth ever overthrown with the help of a foreign power... oh wait...

Lots of governments do their best to stir up trouble in other countries, their best limited by a variety of factors. South and Central America had lots of experience with this, yet we don't see that being constantly blamed for their present day behaviour - perhaps because they are mostly far and away more democratic now than any Muslim states.

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

2) Seizing Arab land and turning it into Israel, and the additional land parcels Israel has taken since. 

It was land owned by the former Ottoman Empire which disintigrated and was being managed by the victors in a war - just as has happened throughout history. The 'additional land parcels' Israel has taken since are likewise the spoils of war. A time honored tradition hardly unique to this region.

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

3) The ongoing treatment of Palestine, mainly in terms of trade restrictions.

They're not a country, therefore they don't get to decide trade.

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

4) The "theft" of Arab oil, by the UK and US.  

LOL. You realize the Arabs had no clue there was oil, or what it was good for, right? It was developed by the West, and they were paid for it - underpaid, perhaps, but paid and agreed to the payments. They still have no ability to maintain their oil facilities, btw. They are all managed by westerners. How is this different from all over the third world, where mines were developed, resources extracted, and the locals paid whatever bare minimum people could get away with?

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

5) The support of tyrannical regimes (Saudi Arabia) by the West, to suppress their own people. 

All major powers support friendly regimes all over the world. Witness the Chinese and Russians. The alternative to the Saudi regime, from all I have read, is one which is far more rigidly authoritarian. The only strong movements against the Saudi government come from groups which think they are far, far too liberal.

23 hours ago, Jariax said:

I'm not going to turn this into an Israel debate, but my point is that even though some Muslim nations have been treated unfairly at times, it does not justify the disproportionate planned violence that is perpetrated by extremist Muslims. 

Muslim nations have not been treated any worse than any other nation out there, given their power and abilities to deal with other governments. It's a big, bold, mean, cruel world. If you say you're an independent nation run by yourself should everyone be nice to you because... well, because you're special or something? What and where has that EVER happened? When in history have kindly nations refused to take advantage of other nations which were willing to grant them things at low cost? You want to look at how Islamic warlords invaded India and slaughtered literally hundreds of millions of people? What the Spanish did to the Azteks? What the Europeans did to the NA indians? What the Japanese did to Korea or China? What's fair got to do with anything?

[drummindiver]

4 hours ago, hot enough said:

Provide me with the name of one that isn't on current outs with the USA that hasn't been established or protected or financed by the US government. 

Obfuscation and avoidance.

Please answer the actual question.

[Army Guy]

4 hours ago, hot enough said:

Provide me with the name of one that isn't on current outs with the USA that hasn't been established or protected or financed by the US government. 

I'd have to go with Saudi Arabia, do we only need one , i think there is more.... 

[Hudson Jones]

On 10/23/2017 at 5:43 PM, Jariax said:

I'm not saying that the West has treated Muslim countries fairly. Nor do I expect peace in countries that don't allow any mechanism for change. But, the fact is, when we see groups claiming credit for violent attacks around the world, 9/10 times it's Muslims. Other individuals do massive violent attacks (Vegas), but it's not an organized attack by a group, meant to facilitate change. 

At the same time, when you see violent attacks by planes, drones, helicopters and other weapons, where more innocent people have been killed, the usual culprits is the West. Just because collateral damage has been normalized in the West, it doesn't mean that it's okay or not part of the equation. 

Have you ever thought that perhaps, the brother, sister, cousin, friend of the person who was killed or maimed is not looking for vengeance and this is the only way they're able to fulfill this.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Hudson Jones

[Argus]

1 hour ago, Hudson Jones said:

At the same time, when you see violent attacks by planes, drones, helicopters and other weapons, where more innocent people have been killed, the usual culprits is the West. Just because collateral damage has been normalized in the West, it doesn't mean that it's okay or not part of the equation. 

Have you ever thought that perhaps, the brother, sister, cousin, friend of the person who was killed or maimed is not looking for vengeance and this is the only way they're able to fulfill this.

Utter drivel. Time and time again we've seen that the motivation for the terrorism is virtually never personal. It's ideological and religious. The guys who tried to derail a train in Ontario weren't doing so because of some damage done to a relative, any more than the guy who killed Nathan Cirillo, any more than the Somali in Edmonton, any more than the guys who stabbed innocent people on a bridge in London or exploded bombs in Spain or drove a bus into Christmas shoppers in Germany. When the "toronto 9" got together to plan terrorist attacks, including perhaps blowing up the CN tower, most were Canadian born. None of their motivation was revenge for relatives harmed. They were gripped by an ideology of hatred for those who were not Muslims and refused to bow to Islam.

You, on the other hand, are driven by a simple hatred for the West born out of ignorance.

Edited October 26, 2017 by Argus

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Argus said:

When the "toronto 9" got together to plan terrorist attacks, including perhaps blowing up the CN tower, most were Canadian born. None of their motivation was revenge for relatives harmed. They were gripped by an ideology of hatred for those who were not Muslims and refused to bow to Islam.

 

They were gripped by a motivation of revenge for Islam harmed by those who are gripped by an ideology of greed, power, fear and loathing against Muslims who refuse to bow to us.

We started this conflict don't forget.

[GostHacked]

19 hours ago, Rue said:

Might I suggest your issues might be caused by  a congenital conditions and not by the US government.

It's the inconsistency in how the US applies 'regime change' in certain Muslim nations, but then cozies up to one of the largest exporter of terrorism on the planet (Saudi Arabia).

[GostHacked]

16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'd have to go with Saudi Arabia, do we only need one , i think there is more.... 

Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass, while Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and others got pummeled into the ground? Who signed off on this?

[Michael Hardner]

27 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass, while Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and others got pummeled into the ground? Who signed off on this?

Maybe because they are a relatively stable oil-producing ally in the middle east?

[GostHacked]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Maybe because they are a relatively stable oil-producing ally in the middle east?

So that gives them a free pass on exporting terrorism? While others do not. Iraq was a relatively stable oil producing nation. Look what happened to them based on many false allegations.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

So that gives them a free pass on exporting terrorism?

As I said before, the leadership is allied with America.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, GostHacked said:

It's the inconsistency in how the US applies 'regime change' in certain Muslim nations, but then cozies up to one of the largest exporter of terrorism on the planet (Saudi Arabia).

Yes, the dissonance is like tinnitus.  The only cure is total deafness.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, GostHacked said:

So that gives them a free pass on exporting terrorism? While others do not. Iraq was a relatively stable oil producing nation. Look what happened to them based on many false allegations.

And Iran before that.

[eyeball]

Islamophobia is a result of trying to avoid facing and accounting for these sorts of inconsistencies.

Now we're like hopeless drunks who need to experience the pain of hitting rock bottom before we'll ever change our behaviour.

[Jariax]

On 10/26/2017 at 3:15 PM, PIK said:

That is because everyone that did lost. How much damage did arafat do to his own people. A deal was there and he said no.

What an absurd argument. It would be like saying that all the rocket fire and dead Israelis are the result of Israel not accepting the offers made by the Palestinians. 

[Jariax]

On 10/27/2017 at 10:24 AM, GostHacked said:

Why does Saudi Arabia get a pass, while Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya and others got pummeled into the ground? Who signed off on this?

Saudi Arabia gets its pass, because it's multi-generational dictatorship is smart enough to line the pockets of the ruling elites around the world, thus allowing them to hunt down and kill dissenters (aka terrorists), have an appalling human rights record when it comes to women and gays, and forego the pretense of democracy. 

And it's a fair point that it's not just the US. Europe, Canada and others are just as complicit. 

[GostHacked]

On 10/27/2017 at 2:08 PM, Michael Hardner said:

As I said before, the leadership is allied with America.

So no problem then? One terrorist nation is ok over another terrorist nation? I thought the US was there to FIGHT terrorism, not help export it.

[GostHacked]

On 10/27/2017 at 2:20 PM, eyeball said:

Yes, the dissonance is like tinnitus.  The only cure is total deafness.

Yeah then we have apologists for Saudi Arabia, because they are an 'ally'.  Shows the hypocrisy of many posters here.

One terrorist is better than another, One rapist is better than another, one murderer is better than the other.  Both committing the same crimes, but one gets a free pass. Does not look good on our leadership in government.

[GostHacked]

21 hours ago, Jariax said:

Saudi Arabia gets its pass, because it's multi-generational dictatorship is smart enough to line the pockets of the ruling elites around the world, thus allowing them to hunt down and kill dissenters (aka terrorists), have an appalling human rights record when it comes to women and gays, and forego the pretense of democracy. 

And it's a fair point that it's not just the US. Europe, Canada and others are just as complicit. 

There it is. People in power are easily bought off by large amounts of money and perks. Disgusting humans all over the place.

[Michael Hardner]

49 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

So no problem then? One terrorist nation is ok over another terrorist nation? I thought the US was there to FIGHT terrorism, not help export it.

It's unclear to me whether you're asking what the USA's rationale is versus how I feel about it.  

If you are trying to point out that countries bullshit each other, their own people, and us, then I will wearily agree with you on that obvious point.

[PIK]

On 10/29/2017 at 12:57 PM, GostHacked said:

So no problem then? One terrorist nation is ok over another terrorist nation? I thought the US was there to FIGHT terrorism, not help export it.

And if someone else was the world's power like russia ,we would all be better off? People don't realize how good we have had living beside america. People have become pampered.

[Rue]

On 11/18/2015 at 7:25 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

drummindiver, unfortunately I can't debate with you when it comes to any religion as I know nothing about them except what I have been told by Muslims

Then before you express opinions about Islam go learn. For someone who knows nothing about their religion you have a lot of preconceived opinions. As well for someone who speaks to Muslims about their religion, how is it you have never managed to find one Muslim who can explain what a kafir is or what the passages of the Koran say about Jews or why Shiite and Sunni Muslims are at war and why both sects attack and hate non Muslims and Muslims such as the Amidyah?

I don't believe for a second you have a clue what a  Muslim is or spoke to any. I think you fabricated that statement to justify your fantasy about Islam.

Next you will tell me you speak to Christians and not one told you about how the religion has been misused not one.

I come from a reality where I actually lived with and deal with Muslims every day. Some are peaceful like Amidyah and Ismaili or progressive Muslims. Don't for a second pull that shtick you are not aware of violent Muslims. I am not here to sheeyat on all Muslims as terrorists thank you but I find your denials and self serving ignorance a joke. Don't pose as being that dumb. You aint. I read your posts. The one thing you are NOT is naive. Come on man get a bit more real with your response.

Edited October 31, 2017 by Rue

[blackbird]

On 10/19/2017 at 12:22 PM, taxme said:

There is nothing that is done by our politically correct politicians that show any common sense or logic or that is sensible anymore. They just enjoy f'n things up, and than start wasting taxpayer's tax dollars trying to pretend that they are going to try and fix up the mess that they already created. We are being led by the ring thru our noses by a bunch of fools who have no clue as to how to run a country. If they did know what they were doing than Canada and Canadians would not be in the mess that we are in today. Most laws past does not have to mean that they were good laws. Some laws programs and agendas created make no sense at all. They just blow tax dollars. 

Here is a website you might like that I came across.  Some good articles on there and food for thought.  One is Dalhousie University is "Swimming in a Sea of White Supremacy".

http://www.eurocanadian.ca/

Edited October 31, 2017 by blackbird