Islamophobia in Canada

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Answer the question:  why do you accept the violent ideology over the peaceful one, when both are rejected by mainstream Islam?

 

I'm not a Muslim. It's Muslims who do not accept your minority sect as real Muslims. You can pretend that they do...it's all part of you defending a medieval patriarchy.

This I accept.

[OftenWrong]

6 hours ago, Rue said:

I don't see the potential for depravity in homo sapiens limited to only one sub type defined by  specific religious or political views.

I think we all can stink or smell sweet. depending on the circumstances.

Certainly the Nuremberg trials proved that.

Ok, but this is our El Guapo.

[Omni]

2 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

I'm not a Muslim. It's Muslims who do not accept your minority sect as real Muslims. You can pretend that they do...it's all part of you defending a medieval patriarchy.

This I accept.

You're not a muslim? I suspect you have a love hate relationship with the religion, especially since you spend so much time and effort to attempt to understand it, and  then so much time here and who knows where else droning on about it.

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, Omni said:

You're not a muslim? I suspect you have a love hate relationship with the religion, especially since you spend so much time and effort to attempt to understand it, and  then so much time here and who knows where else droning on about it.

 

Translation: you'd prefer to mutilate vaginas in peace w/o the Infidel chatterboxes dissing your beloved Islam. 

 

[Omni]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Translation: you'd prefer to mutilate vaginas in peace w/o the Infidel chatterboxes dissing your beloved Islam. 

 

Get a real hobby. You'll feel much better.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

Get a real hobby. You'll feel much better.

 

Translation: Damn...he doesn't shut-up like when I strike my wives.

[Omni]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Translation: Damn...he doesn't shut-up like when I strike my wives.

I have to wonder if you ever actually traveled further than, to say, your local grocery store. I suspect you read a bit, but you don't  seem have anything done anything beyond that. 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

I have to wonder if you ever actually traveled further than, to say, your local grocery store. I suspect you read a bit, but you don't  seem have anything done anything beyond that. 

 

Translation: I have nothing to counter your facts re: Islam...so I'll attack you.

[Omni]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Translation: I have nothing to counter your facts re: Islam...so I'll attack you.

That's not a translation, that's your typical attempt at obfuscation, which does translate into the type of ignorance I referred to. 

I accept your surrender.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Omni said:

That's not a translation, that's your typical attempt at obfuscation, which does translate into the type of ignorance I referred to. 

I accept your surrender.

 

Translation: I've still got nuthin'...but I need the final word.

[Omni]

Just now, DogOnPorch said:

 

Translation: I've still got nuthin'...but I need the final word.

Classic "DOP" 

 

[marcus]

1 minute ago, Omni said:

I have to wonder if you ever actually traveled further than, to say, your local grocery store. I suspect you read a bit, but you don't  seem have anything done anything beyond that. 

Why bother responding to him?

He blames female genital mutilation on Islam, even though it's not a Muslim (or Christian) practice. It's a practice that dates back to before Christianity and Islam took over Central Africa.

His posts are full of ideas and comments he has picked up from conspiracy theory sites and anti-Muslim sites. The type of sites that someone like the Quebec mosque shooter read. His comments that paints all Muslims as being the same is exactly what extremists spew out. I just hope that he doesn't one day snap and get a hold of a gun.

He's not here to listen or debate. He's here to propagate his extremist views. My recommendation is to not waste time on him.

[dialamah]

22 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Translation: I have nothing to counter your facts re: Islam...so I'll attack you.

Says the guy who resorts to calling people liars when he can't come up with any kind of rational response.

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, marcus said:

Why bother responding to him?

He blames female genital mutilation on Islam, even though it's not a Muslim (or Christian) practice. It's a practice that dates back to before Christianity and Islam took over Central Africa.

His posts are full of ideas and comments he has picked up from conspiracy theory sites and anti-Muslim sites. The type of sites that someone like the Quebec mosque shooter read. His comments that paints all Muslims as being the same is exactly what extremists spew out. I just hope that he doesn't one day snap and get a hold of a gun.

He's not here to listen or debate. He's here to propagate his extremist views. My recommendation is to not waste time on him.

http://muslimsincalgary.ca/female-circumcision-in-islam/

Think of the health benefits!

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Says the guy who resorts to calling people liars when he can't come up with any kind of rational response.

 

You do lie in order to protect Islam though as I've demonstrated.

[Omni]

2 minutes ago, marcus said:

Why bother responding to him?

He blames female genital mutilation on Islam, even though it's not a Muslim (or Christian) practice. It's a practice that dates back to before Christianity and Islam took over Central Africa.

His posts are full of ideas and comments he has picked up from conspiracy theory sites and anti-Muslim sites. The type of sites that someone like the Quebec mosque shooter read. His comments that paints all Muslims as being the same is exactly what extremists spew out. I just hope that he doesn't one day snap and get a hold of a gun.

He's not here to listen or debate. He's here to propagate his extremist views. My recommendation is to not waste time on him.

I pretty much agree. Nothing much changes with this poster. One shouldn't waste time bating I guess.

[DogOnPorch]

40 minutes ago, Omni said:

I pretty much agree. Nothing much changes with this poster. One shouldn't waste time bating I guess.

Two more kill markings on the side of my aircraft.

Champagne on the carrier deck...

You in a life raft. 

[Omni]

19 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Two more kill markings on the side of my aircraft.

Champagne on the carrier deck...

You in a life raft. 

At least I have a life raft as you sink below the surface. But you have the rite to reach out to whatever religious contraption you choose on the way down.

[DogOnPorch]

8 hours ago, Omni said:

At least I have a life raft as you sink below the surface. But you have the rite to reach out to whatever religious contraption you choose on the way down.

 

Shhhh....dead pilots don't talk.

Meanwhile....it has been decided that our mosque shooter doesn't need a preliminary hearing and will go straight to trail.

Heck...why bother with that? Let's get to the sentencing!

[DogOnPorch]

Quote

 

How Misogynists and Feminists are feeding upon each other to denigrate an Islamic practice that brings untold benefits to women

Female Circumcision is an Islamic tradition, and involve only the removal of the clitoral prepuce and no more.

All the early scholars of Islam were agreed that all that is needed to be removed in the circumcision of the female was the prepuce of the clitoris, the fold of skin covering the clitoris. This is the female equivalent of the foreskin in males which is taken off during circumcision.

The inspiration for writing on this touchy topic arose at a recent week-long workshop held by an international Muslim women’s rights organization in Kandy (in Sri Lanka) which I had the fortune of attending thanks to its local organizers.

 

Read more....

http://muslimsincalgary.ca/female-circumcision-in-islam/

Funny....these guys think it's an 'Islamic Tradition'.

 

[Goddess]

11 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

http://muslimsincalgary.ca/female-circumcision-in-islam/

Think of the health benefits!

This is a freaky site, but apparently one of the top sites to answer questions on Islam in all languages. Details the "health benefits" of FGM.  From a Muslim doctor :

https://islamqa.info/en/45528
 

Quote

 

Circumcision reduces excessive sexual desire. 

 

 

 

Quote

It takes away excessive libido from women

Quote

 

The female gynaecologist Sitt al-Banaat Khaalid says in an article entitled Khitaan al-Banaat Ru’yah Sihhiyyah (Female circumcision from a health point of view): 

For us in the Muslim world female circumcision is, above all else, obedience to Islam, which means acting in accordance with the fitrah and following the Sunnah which encourages it. We all know the dimensions of Islam, and that everything in it must be good in all aspects, including health aspects. If the benefits are not apparent now, they will become known in the future, as has happened with regard to male circumcision – the world now knows its benefits and it has become widespread among all nations despite the opposition of some groups. 

 

Quote

In the case of women, it serves a useful purpose which is to reduce desire. This is seeking perfection, not removing something harmful. 

Quote

With regard to the wisdom behind the circumcision of women, it is to regulate their desire so it will be moderate. 

 

It's really about controlling women's sexuality.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Goddess

[dialamah]

16 hours ago, Argus said:

I guess that's just what makes us different. Your primary concern is a woman having her headscarf being tugged off and mine is a woman getting her head cut off.

Difference in priorities, I guess.

What a remarkably stupid thing for you to say.   

[DogOnPorch]

18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

What a remarkably stupid thing for you to say.   

 

True though.

[DogOnPorch]

43 minutes ago, Goddess said:

This is a freaky site, but apparently one of the top sites to answer questions on Islam in all languages. Details the "health benefits" of FGM.  From a Muslim doctor :

https://islamqa.info/en/45528
 

 

It's really about controlling women's sexuality.

 

 

I know...straight from the horse's mouth...but you and I are...you know...Islamophobes.

[Rue]

21 hours ago, dialamah said:

Agreed.  My attempted parallel fails.

 

i don't think there is much freedom of thought allowed in any religion, honestly.  I don't know how devout a Jew you are, but can you really say you have 'freedom of thought' around the basic tenets of Judaism?   

I don't see mainstream Islam as being violent; to me, it's fundamentalist, paternalistic and patriarchal and too intolerant towards anyone not a Muslim and not male - but for most Muslims, that intolerance does not translate into violence.   

I talk about Egypt because my sister lives there so I think it's easier to get a sense of what is true for at least Egyptian Muslims.   There is ongoing debate on the Muslim brotherhood, on the status of women, on homosexuality.   She told me the other day that there are some companies in Egypt that will not hire women with a headscarf because it's seen as too religious and too old-fashioned, and of course other places that won't hire a woman unless she wears a headscarf.   She says that most women wear a headscarf in public, and that the number of women who wear the full niqab/burka and the number of women who wear nothing on their heads seem to be about the same.   Of four other women in her immediate family - all born and raised in Egypt - one dresses similarly to my sister (conservatively Western), two wear a headscarf in public, but it's rather casual while the last one is very particular about ensuring she shows very little skin, though she does not wear the niqab.   Each husband allows his wife to wear what she prefers.   My sister also talks about a woman she works with, the only one she knows who wears a niqab - and that woman's 11-year-old daughter, who does not even wear a headscarf, though she would be of an age to were her parents determined that she should.   She talks about a Muslim man she knows who denies there is any homosexuality in Egypt - it just doesn't exist as far as he's concerned, and her husband - who admits it exists, but doesn't like it.   I also remember when her husband, imagining I might want to make Egypt my permanent home and knowing I was not Muslim, introduced me to his unmarried Christian friend.   

This diversity of thought and behavior I see among Muslims, from my sister's family to other Muslims I know and have talked to is what I believe to be the accurate representation of Muslims everywhere.  This is why I get so frustrated with statements like "Muslims hate gays/apostates/non-believers and kill them" or "Muslims are inherently violent" or "Muslims can't/won't change their ignorant, backward ways".    I am not unaware of the problems of Islam, or of the generally authoritarian regimes in these countries - but I am also aware of the ways in which the people in the region are attempting to change Islam and change their culture, through laws, education and social activism.   They aren't stupid, they aren't barbarians; they are human.   And 50 years ago, we weren't a lot different in our social attitudes and even in some of our laws.  

Sorry I needed to take time to respond. Unlike some you take thought in what you say to me so I take time to read and think it through. In regards to your first sentence I tend to agree with you. Its a criticism that can hold as to any organized group imposed thought or value system.  In regards to your second question I appreciate it and it yes is tough to answer and I understand why you ask it. Point taken. On the one hand Judaism provides a code of argument the Talmud. We as Jews are not supposed to take anything literally in the Bible. Everything is subject to constant debat eand change as to meaning. Judaism is meant to change constantly in its values and beleifs-its suppose to constantly be questioned and adapt to new contexts and scenarios and never stay fixed or entrenched.  That said, in practical reality Rabbiahs like Priests, Mullahs and other Clergy or Theological scholars usually dominate the debate on the meaning of the Talmud, Bible or Rabbinical essays. Good point in that all religions probably have this issue.  You are right I am not religious conventionally and that is precisely because I don't like anyone telling me what I MUST believe

Now in regards to your opinion about mainstream Islam not being violent, I think you show integrity coming on this forum and taking a lot of personal attacks for saying that. I have to respect you for that. I also  listen carefully to your views. Can I say this. I will concede a great deal of my exposure to Islam has come from the media or terrorism or travelling  which does focus on violent Islamic expressions of terrorism of course.

Mainstream Muslims? Well just how many do I deal with? Not that many today  and the ones I do interact with no are not violent. My neighbour who is  Muslim  though said things about Jews no doubt quoting what he was told in his Mosque and he had no idea how offensive they were. No idea. None. I challenged him and said the fact I was not Muslim did not mean I am not equal to him or not a true believer as he lectured me.. Then again he said the same thing about Christians. Now I have had Jehova's witnesses and  . Mormons come to my door and say if I didn't accept Jesus as my savour I am going to hell. They did not hink that offensive either. Are such thoughts violent? On a physical level no. On a spiritual level for me, yes.

That said when I lived in Israel I got along with all the Muslims I knew. But I really didn't see them as "Muslim". I saw them as "Arabs" and in that group of "Arabs" I also saw Christians and Jews not just Muslims and also I saw Beduins whose beliefs are not the same as others and to tell you the truth most Palestinians I knew were like Israelis or Arab Israelis or Palestinians-none of us were religious.

Then again I was 16, 17, 18 at that time. Today I am 61 and the Middle East has changed and the extremist Islamic religious terror cells are a fact now everywhere. In the time I was there the PLO was not religious. Many of the Palestinian terror groups were in fact atheist and communist. Hamas when I was there was not a terrorist organization and Hezbollah was a Shiite extremist religious group yes but only in Lebanon in the Shiite area.

The war with Israel and the hostility against Israel I experienced  was based on a Pan-Arab national identity that defined Muslims and  wscreated by Nasser no different than how Zionists defined Jews. It was a political-cultural group identity not a religious one as it is today/

You know from a Zionist perspective only, our belief in being free by creating a state to protect ourselves from extinction has not brought freedom-it has brought a group psychosis of denial from mainstream Arab countries most using Islam and the concept and belief of khafir and dhmmitude to  reject our right to be a free people and equal to Muslims so I don't see much freedom in being free. I see us Jews in Israel surrounded by hostile forces in the name of Islam wanting to wipe us out.

On a religious level I never met a Rabbiah  or any clergy I didn't think was full of himself and his teachings. I say that about all clergy. I mean I am respectful to all clergy equally about the history and culture of their religions. The only time I get my nose out of joint is the moment someone tells me what I MUST believe.

The violence I saw, the terrorism I saw, could come from Arabs who  look no different than Israelis.

My perspective from what I saw first hand  was that the so called Palestinian national movement of terrorists were nothing more than drug lords and pimps using the cover of being terrorist nationalists to sell their drugs and young boys and girls to the Europeans and on to New York City from Marseilles, France.

Everyone knew Arafat was gay and everyone knew they sold Arab boys and girls to the sex trade along with heroin and hash.

My perspective was on corrupt people like Arafat  using terrorism to cover crimes.

Hell I dug ditches in the West Bank for sewage along side Israeli and Palestinian volunteers. Shit looks the same. So do people when we saw them after they were blown up and left on the streets. When you see that as a young man-when you see blown up bodies, you don't see Arabs or Israelis, Jews or Muslims, you just see bran matter, intestines, organ pieces, feet, arms.teeth.  There are always flies and a smell and maggots. All you think of  is cleaning up the ground because the smell and flies in the sun and heat are horrible.

No one walks away from that going that was a Muslim body. That was a Jewish body. At least not in the moment. Everyone Palestinian or Israeli walks away with the same reaction that you just won't turn your back to anyone and sitting in a café or bus or even going to a movie theatre is always a matter of being vigilante. You can't see a physical difference in people so you suspect them all. That's the reality.

It becomes a blur of who you see. It could be anyone who blows you up or shoots you or knifes you.h because both were equally as violent.

So I am not sure what to say. I feel the same way about extremist Jews as I do extremist Muslims or extremist Christians. My apprehension can get triggered by tappearance, i.e., beards, clothes, smell, sound.

My apprehension is there. I genuinely don't like any human until one on one I get to know them and can trust them

I think people like Trudeau come from sheltered environments and do not get terrorism and are exposing this country to extremists coming in and yes Muslim ones.

That said it does not mean I hate Muslims and want them all arrested. Terrorist Muslims want all of us to hate mainstream Muslims so we alienate mainstream Muslims from mainstream non Muslims to make it easier to recruit them.

I just wish we could be blunt and challenge Muslim extremism but balance it with a sense of understanding  we have to avoid hating all Muslims  which is what Muslim terrorists want.

You are challenging some stereotypes which needs to be done.

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rue