DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) 17 minutes ago, dialamah said: I can and have. When I have, you have claimed these aren't "real Muslims" because they aren't following the violent texts you claim are the "real Islam". So, GFY. Ahmadis are apostates and persecuted by mainstream Islam as they claim Ghulam Ahmad is the successor to Muhammad as the faith's spiritual leader. As Islam claims there are NO prophets after Muhammad, it is impossible for Ahmadis to represent Islam itself. Edited October 2, 2017 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: True, but we weren't talking about terror attacks, were we? We were discussing how awful Islam is for women. If you want to talk about Christian terror attacks, look no farther than the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. Sure, they'll put it out there that he was some lone wolf, or disturbed or something - but he's a white guy from a Christian country, ergo he's a Christian and this is a Christian terror attack. See, I can use the same logic you do, DoP. Islam is the worst thing to ever happen to women as far as religions go. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
marcus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 3 hours ago, bcsapper said: From a previous post in this argument: The others would be the many who are not. I don't care about them, any more than I care about anyone else who isn't an arsehole. Other than generally wishing them well of course. I was talking about all of the rest, though. Not just Canadians. If an overwhelming majority, ike over 99.99% of Muslims in Canada have condemned the attacks by these lone wolves in Canada, then why do you keep saying it's Islam and Muslims who have a problem? You need to start acknowledging and accepting that you can't just paint a broad stroke. This has nothing to do with a religion. If it did, Canada would be in flames right now, with its 1 million+ Muslim population. The rest of the Muslim world is not represented by ISIS. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, marcus said: If an overwhelming majority, ike over 99.99% of Muslims in Canada have condemned the attacks by these lone wolves in Canada, then why do you keep saying it's Islam and Muslims who have a problem? You need to start acknowledging and accepting that you can't just paint a broad stroke. This has nothing to do with a religion. If it did, Canada would be in flames right now, with its 1 million+ Muslim population. The rest of the Muslim world is not represented by ISIS. Oskar Schindler was a good Nazi. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, dialamah said: If you want to talk about Christian terror attacks, look no farther than the Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas. Sure, they'll put it out there that he was some lone wolf, or disturbed or something - but he's a white guy from a Christian country, ergo he's a Christian and this is a Christian terror attack. The Bible states: Thou shalt not kill...period. Where does it say that in your Quran? Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Ahmadis are apostates and persecuted by mainstream Islam as they claim Ghulam Ahmad is the successor to Muhammad as the faith's spiritual leader. As Islam claims, there are NO prophets after Muhammad, it is impossible for Ahmadis to represent Islam itself. See? This is a group that uses the Koran to practice a specifically pacifist Islam and you deny them. Your claim that I can't produce an example of peaceful Islam is disproven again. So again, GFY. 1
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: Where does it say that in your Quran? You can pretend I wrote the Koran.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, dialamah said: See? This is a group that uses the Koran to practice a specifically pacifist Islam and you deny them. Your claim that I can't produce an example of peaceful Islam is disproven again. So again, GFY. As I pointed out, Mainstream Islam...not myself...claim they are infidels. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, dialamah said: You can pretend I wrote the Koran. So we can agree no such peaceful message exists. In fact, it's okay to murder for revenge or in order to prevent Fitnah. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said: As I pointed out, Mainstream Islam...not myself...claim they are infidels. Oh, I get it ... when Mainstream Muslims deny ISIS and it's violent ideology, that is to be ignored. When Mainstream Muslims deny Ahmadiyya's non-violent ideology that is to be accepted. Logic and consistency are not your strong points, are they? 1
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: So we can agree no such peaceful message exists. In fact, it's okay to murder for revenge or in order to prevent Fitnah. You can lie about what I post, too.
Argus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 13 hours ago, marcus said: What is in Islam is pretty much what is in Judaism and Christianity That's nonsense. Neither of the latter two religion spend a ton of time talking about what to do about unbelievers. The Koran spends more time on how to deal with unbelievers than it does on everything else combined. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Rue Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 21 hours ago, eyeball said: Here we are smack in the middle of the myth that the west is entirely faultless and blameless for any of the shit or hornets that have been stirred up. The terrorist who acted in Edmonton was not stirred up by Canadians, You engage in a rape myth that rapists need to be provoked to rape. Bullshit. This myth that terrorists only are set off by Westerners is bullshit. Its a deflection from admitting the terrorist was inspired by Muslim extremist ideology. Likewise and with due respect to Dialamah saying the Wst promotes violence even if that could be shown to be true does not suggest Islamic extremist views do't promote violence. I do not agree with Marcus, Dialamah, Eye, or anyone else's position if it can not acknowledge the direct connection between terrorism and Muslim extremism specially if they make a direct connection between violence and the West's ideologies but not Islam and terrorism. That is illogical. I also will state the attempt on this forum to suggest more Muslims have been shot dead than non Muslims because of hatred is precisely the kind of bullshit exploitation of Muslim deaths we d not need. We see that attempt to reduce the issue of terrorism to a point score of how many are killed a lot, particularly in anti Israel threads. Its a fallacy. Deaths are not a goal in soccer or points in some sports match. Any death that comes about because of terrorism is wrong. Any act of violence In the name of morality or political ideology is a huge failure of humankind. Its not justified in comparing death scores. Morality is not defined by volume of death. To protect innocent Muslims from being lumped in with terrorist ones I argue we have to speak openly about the Muslim connection not deny it. As for Dialamah while I am respectfully disagree on her denial of the Muslim connection to terrorism I assure her I agree that connection has to be discussed in a respectful manner so as not to smeer or stereotype innocent Muslims.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) 4 minutes ago, dialamah said: Oh, I get it ... when Mainstream Muslims deny ISIS and it's violent ideology, that is to be ignored. When Mainstream Muslims deny Ahmadiyya's non-violent ideology that is to be accepted. Ahmadis are a separate religion in the same way Sikhs differ from Hindus. They have a Prophet OTHER than the violent warlord, Muhammad. 3 minutes ago, dialamah said: You can lie about what I post, too. So what does verse 5:32 say to you? https://quran.com/5/32 Edited October 2, 2017 by DogOnPorch Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 Just now, Argus said: That's nonsense. Neither of the latter two religion spend a ton of time talking about what to do about unbelievers. The Koran spends more time on how to deal with unbelievers than it does on everything else combined. Really? Please, prove that. Btw the way, are the hate-crimes against the Jews as irrelevant and minor as the same hate crimes against the Muslims? You have still failed to answer that question.
Argus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, marcus said: Why do you only condemn violent people based on their religious background? Why don't you condemn all violence and all of the excuses they put forth? You keep avoiding the big elephant in the room, which is: Western/Anglo Saxon countries have committed more violence and have killed more innocent people than anyone else in the past century. Bleh. Western countries have been in power in the last century, so naturally they'd have the strength to do more damage. But for the past fifty years most of the damage has been caused by Marxist ideologies in the third world and Islam. But to the progressive mind, even if a White country defends itself from attack that's another example of western violence. Edited October 2, 2017 by Argus "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
marcus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Argus said: That's nonsense. Neither of the latter two religion spend a ton of time talking about what to do about unbelievers. The Koran spends more time on how to deal with unbelievers than it does on everything else combined. Considering that the old and new testament is part of Islam, then how could it be nonsense. Also, as a scholar on Islam, can you show everyone how the "Koran spends more time on how to deal with unbelievers than it does on everything else combined." "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
dialamah Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rue said: I do not agree with Marcus, Dialamah, Eye, or anyone else's position if it can not acknowledge the direct connection between terrorism and Muslim extremism specially I can easily acknowledge that there is Muslim extremism and that those people target innocent people Muslims and non-Muslims both. What I don't acknowledge is that it this extremism is representative of Muslims generally. 2
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, dialamah said: Really? Please, prove that. For example https://quran.com/109 Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Argus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, marcus said: Considering that the old and new testament is part of Islam, then how could it be nonsense. The central point of Islam is the Koran and the Hadiths. I doubt you could find many Muslims who know anything from the new or old Testaments. 2 minutes ago, marcus said: Also, as a scholar on Islam, can you show everyone how the "Koran spends more time on how to deal with unbelievers than it does on everything else combined." “About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.” –Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Goddess Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 1 minute ago, dialamah said: What I don't acknowledge is that it this extremism is representative of Muslims generally. I think he's talking about your denial that Muslim extremism has anything at all to do with the teachings of Islam. "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Argus Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, dialamah said: I can easily acknowledge that there is Muslim extremism and that those people target innocent people Muslims and non-Muslims both. What I don't acknowledge is that it this extremism is representative of Muslims generally. It is representative of the entire history of Islam, which has sought to convert all unbelievers by violence or kill them throughout its history. "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Rue Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, dialamah said: See? This is a group that uses the Koran to practice a specifically pacifist Islam and you deny them. Your claim that I can't produce an example of peaceful Islam is disproven again. So again, GFY. I have spelled their name wrong countless times but constantly refer to the Amadiyah,/Ahmadi a speaceful Muslims and I have been to their Mosque in Mississauga. I am sorry we get into tangents on this discussion. I respectfully disagree with you on some issues but I openly state again my beliefs are limited to extremist Muslims and if they sound like they attack all Muslims I would be wrong to do that. That is all I will keep saying to you a slong as I see the lines getting blurred. When Muslims act like terrorosst all it does is make me respect the peaceful ones who speak out aganst them. No terrorist will get me to hate all Muslims and the ones I despise I despire for being terrorist. Their use of Islam as their rationalization to me is not the issue, their actions are.
DogOnPorch Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, Argus said: The central point of Islam is the Koran and the Hadiths. I doubt you could find many Muslims who know anything from the new or old Testaments. “About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.” –Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy Verses like 3:56 mince no words... And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers. https://quran.com/3/56 It's the 'this world' part that technically allows Muslims the right to dish-out justice to the Unbeliever rather than leaving the punishment to Allah. Nothing cracks a turtle like Leon Uris.
Rue Posted October 2, 2017 Report Posted October 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, dialamah said: I can easily acknowledge that there is Muslim extremism and that those people target innocent people Muslims and non-Muslims both. What I don't acknowledge is that it this extremism is representative of Muslims generally. Then I thank you and support you and openly defend you.
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