Islamophobia in Canada

[dialamah]

Just now, Goddess said:

I think he's talking about your denial that Muslim extremism has anything at all to do with the teachings of Islam.

I deny DoP's constant contention that Islam only teaches violence.   Clearly, people take from their books of worship what they want:  most Muslims are not violent, but they can certainly find support for violence in the Koran if that suits them.   

I have said the same thing over and over and over over the past two years, but hey - I understand.  Not joining the hate brigade around here means that I must therefore be some kind of idiot who thinks there are no bad Muslims in the world.   

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

I deny DoP's constant contention that Islam only teaches violence.   Clearly, people take from their books of worship what they want:  most Muslims are not violent, but they can certainly find support for violence in the Koran if that suits them.   

I have said the same thing over and over and over over the past two years, but hey - I understand.  Not joining the hate brigade around here means that I must therefore be some kind of idiot who thinks there are no bad Muslims in the world.   

 

 

Prove me wrong...show me the money...errrr...verse. Where is this peaceful bit of the Quran I'm missing?

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, Rue said:

Then I thank you and support you and openly defend you.

 

Generally, Germans during WW2 were good people...loved their kids...walked their dogs.

[Rue]

4 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I deny DoP's constant contention that Islam only teaches violence.   Clearly, people take from their books of worship what they want:  most Muslims are not violent, but they can certainly find support for violence in the Koran if that suits them.   

I have said the same thing over and over and over over the past two years, but hey - I understand.  Not joining the hate brigade around here means that I must therefore be some kind of idiot who thinks there are no bad Muslims in the world.   

 

No not an idiot an important contruibutor to moderating discussions. 

 

[Argus]

29 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Ahmadis are apostates and persecuted by mainstream Islam as they claim Ghulam Ahmad is the successor to Muhammad as the faith's spiritual leader. As Islam claims there are NO prophets after Muhammad, it is impossible for Ahmadis to represent Islam itself. 

Nevertheless, they're an extremely misogynistic bunch, where women are most definitely second class citizens. They have THAT in common with the rest of the world's Muslims.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Argus said:

Nevertheless, they're an extremely misogynistic bunch, where women are most definitely second class citizens. They have THAT in common with the rest of the world's Muslims.

Yes...but dialamah's claim is like using Sikhism to represent Hinduism.

[marcus]

11 minutes ago, Argus said:

“About sixty-one percent of the contents of the Koran are found to speak ill of the unbelievers or call for their violent conquest; at best only 2.6 percent of the verses of the Koran are noted to show goodwill toward humanity. About seventy-five percent of Muhammad’s biography (Sira) consists of jihad waged on unbelievers.”

–Dr. Moorthy Muthuswamy

I mean. If some guy with a Dr. in front of his name, despite a link to attribute to his quote or any confirmation whether the information is true.... I HAVE TO TAKE YOUR OR THE DR.'s WORD FOR IT.

Thank you Scholar of Islam.

What does the bible say about non-believers?

ATHEISTS ARGUE BIBLE CALLS FOR KILLING OF NON-BELIEVERS, MIRRORS PRACTICES OF QUR’AN, SPARKS CONTROVERSY

Quote

 

Psalm 14:1–3 “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good. The Lord looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”

Matthew 10:34–37 “Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.”

Luke 14:26 “If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.”

Psalm 137:9 “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.”

John 15:6 “If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.”
2 Chronicles 15:13 “That whosoever would not seek the Lord God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.”
Deuteronomy 13:12–16 “If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the Lord thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.”

Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/freethoughtnow/does-the-bible-call-for-the-death-of-nonbelievers/#FktIoxhggv40hbtc.99

 

 

Edited October 2, 2017 by marcus

[Argus]

13 hours ago, marcus said:

Your way of thinking is shallow and superficial. 

How does a culture form? How does it advance? What sets it back? 

Well if you're a Muslim country what appears to set you back is uhm, Islam. The Muslim world was far advanced from the barbarous West, after all, once upon a time. Then they began to adopt the idea that all study other than Islam is a waste of time. All their scholars study the Koran and Hadiths. Their scientific progress ended while the West kept moving forward, leaving the Muslim world a backwater. Even in wealthy Islamic countries today there are no top rated universities. In places like Saudi Arabia, where they are incredibly rich, their own citizens aren't even capable of building roads, much less skyscrapers, and their oil industry is run and managed by westerners because Saudis don't know how. Instead, they study the Koran.

[DogOnPorch]

A for peaceful Islam...it should be simple matter of quoting the Quran...not doing acrobatics about minority sects.

[dialamah]

6 minutes ago, Argus said:

It is representative of the entire history of Islam, which has sought to convert all unbelievers by violence or kill them throughout its history.

Uh,  no.  You are wrong.   There are many examples, now and throughout history, when non-Muslims lived peacefully and well within Muslim-controlled areas;

Quote

This article will show that, for centuries, perhaps a millennium, during which Islam dominated the area, conflict between Jews, Christians and Muslims was the exception, not the norm. The norm was peace, harmony, coexistence and cooperation among those of the three religions. 

You may claim that they were not always treated equally, but that is a hell of a lot different than forced to convert through violence or killed.

 

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, Argus said:

Well if you're a Muslim country what appears to set you back is uhm, Islam. The Muslim world was far advanced from the barbarous West, after all, once upon a time. Then they began to adopt the idea that all study other than Islam is a waste of time. All their scholars study the Koran and Hadiths. Their scientific progress ended while the West kept moving forward, leaving the Muslim world a backwater. Even in wealthy Islamic countries today there are no top rated universities. In places like Saudi Arabia, where they are incredibly rich, their own citizens aren't even capable of building roads, much less skyscrapers, and their oil industry is run and managed by westerners because Saudis don't know how. Instead, they study the Koran.

 

Loot and Booty from the successful conquest of much of the classical world resulted in Islam's Golden Age...lots of good stuff in that pile.

Edited October 2, 2017 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Uh,  no.  You are wrong.   There are many examples, now and throughout history, when non-Muslims lived peacefully and well within Muslim-controlled areas;

You may claim that they were not always treated equally, but that is a hell of a lot different than forced to convert through violence or killed.

 

That's because Dhimmis pay the Jizya to acquire semi-legal protection under Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Generally, Germans during WW2 were good people...loved their kids...walked their dogs.

I caught part of a discussion in which a Muslim woman tried to use this excuse, saying most Muslims didn't support violence against others. The response from a somewhat agitated woman on the panel whose name I forget was, to paraphrase "Most Germans didn't support the slaughter and wars their country engaged in but they didn't oppose it either. Most Russians didn't support the bloody pogroms and starvation and wars, but they didn't oppose it either. Most Chinese weren't involved in or supporting the cultural revolution, but that hardly mattered since their acquiescence enabled these things to happen. Saying you don't actively support something is irrelevant when your participation and lack of opposition in your group or nation enable that group or nation's power and violence.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

A for peaceful Islam...it should be simple matter of quoting the Quran...not doing acrobatics about minority sects.

How about you stop doing the acrobatics about only letting violent Koranic verses define Islam, while denying Koranic verses promoting peace are invalid.  Maybe then we can have a "reasonable" discussion about the way in which a TINY MINORITY of Muslims use the Koran to promote war and terrorism in the Middle East and around the world.

 

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

How about you stop doing the acrobatics about only letting violent Koranic verses define Islam, while denying Koranic verses promoting peace are invalid.  Maybe then we can have a "reasonable" discussion about the way in which a TINY MINORITY of Muslims use the Koran to promote war and terrorism in the Middle East and around the world.

 

Show me the peaceful ones, then. Set me straight re: Islam is Peace.

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

That's because Dhimmis pay the Jizya to acquire semi-legal protection under Islam.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_Umar

Old news, doesn't happen any more.   And it's still a far cry from Argus' contention that Islam invariably forced conversion by the sword or killed unbelievers.

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

How about you stop doing the acrobatics about only letting violent Koranic verses define Islam, while denying Koranic verses promoting peace are invalid.  Maybe then we can have a "reasonable" discussion about the way in which a TINY MINORITY of Muslims use the Koran to promote war and terrorism in the Middle East and around the world.

 

Keep in mind...defender...that I'm aware of abrogation...very aware.

Choose your verses wisely.

[Argus]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Uh,  no.  You are wrong.   There are many examples, now and throughout history, when non-Muslims lived peacefully and well within Muslim-controlled areas;

Throughout the entire history of Islam, the belief that Islam is 'the house of peace' and EVERYWHERE ELSE is 'the house of war' has prevailed. Muslim nations and warlords have considered all non-Muslim nations to be fair game for attack, conquest and murder without restraint. The only thing which has stopped them has been that their own growing backwardness compared to others has robbed them of the military ability to conquer anyone else for the last couple of centuries. It has not, however, changed their attitudes. If the Muslim countries of the world had the military ability to do so they would most certainly be attacking their non-Muslim neighbors today.

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

You may claim that they were not always treated equally, but that is a hell of a lot different than forced to convert through violence or killed.

They wee never treated equally, nor are they treated equally today in the Muslim world. 

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, Rue said:

This myth that terrorists only are set off by Westerners is bullshit. Its a deflection from admitting the terrorist was inspired by Muslim extremist ideology.

I can easily acknowledge that people who snap in this fashion are inspired by their extreme religious beliefs it's just that I also acknowledge that the extremeness of these beliefs were stirred up and inflated by decades of extreme western interference in the Muslim world.  The ongoing effort of racist assholes who seemingly celebrate that interference and insist on maintaining the fear and loathing and hatred of Muslims are every bit as extremist. 

You are perfect enemies for each other.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

Old news, doesn't happen any more.   And it's still a far cry from Argus' contention that Islam invariably forced conversion by the sword or killed unbelievers.

 

The Pact of Umar is part of mainstream Islamic jurisprudence. It's WHY Zionists were allowed to buy and live inside the Ottoman Empire. As for it not being enforced today: how many new churches are built in your Egypt every year?

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Show me the peaceful ones, then. Set me straight re: Islam is Peace.

There are approximately 1 Million peaceful Muslims in Canada.  There are close to 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims around the world.

Unless of course one is going to claim that if they aren't out killing apostates and unbelievers, they aren't 'real Muslims'.   I know the gullible fall for this line of 'reasoning', but I guess I can't fix stupid.

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, dialamah said:

There are approximately 1 Million peaceful Muslims in Canada.  There are close to 1.6 billion peaceful Muslims around the world.

Unless of course one is going to claim that if they aren't out killing apostates and unbelievers, they aren't 'real Muslims'.   I know the gullible fall for this line of 'reasoning', but I guess I can't fix stupid.

Show me the verses in the Quran, please. Keep in mind I'm up on abrogation. 

Or is that impossible for you to do?

[Argus]

15 minutes ago, marcus said:

I mean. If some guy with a Dr. in front of his name, despite a link to attribute to his quote or any confirmation whether the information is true.... I HAVE TO TAKE YOUR OR THE DR.'s WORD FOR IT.

Thank you Scholar of Islam.

What does the bible say about non-believers?

You don't have a clue what the bible says about non-believers or how to interpret it because you are an atheist. But that's okay, all you have to do is look around you and see how a largely Christian West has treated non-believers like you, or who belong to other religions who have been permitted to come here, settle here, and thrive here in large numbers. as they are accepted and treated as equals. The Muslim world well... not so much.

By the way as for 'atheists say' the bible tells people to hate non-believers.... you realize that atheism is punishable by death in many Muslim countries, don't you? If not by death than certainly imprisonment. The following countries impose the death penalty on atheists. Guess what religion they all are.

Afghanistan, Iran, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Yemen.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Argus

[dialamah]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

Keep in mind...defender...that I'm aware of abrogation...very aware.

Choose your verses wisely.

Oh, abrogation.   Too funny.   I know you fancy yourself some expert Islamic scholar but real experts disagree on the details of abrogation.   In any case, if nearly 1.6 billion Muslims believe that their Koran tells them to live peaceful lives, why would abrogation matter?

Unless of course, you continue to assert that only violent Muslims are 'real Muslims.'

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Argus said:

You don't have a clue what the bible says about non-believers or how to interpret it because you are an atheist. But that's okay, all you have to do is look around you and see how a largely Christian West has treated non-believers like you, or who belong to other religions who have been permitted to come here, settle here, and thrive here in large numbers. as they are accepted and treated as equals. The Muslim world well... not so much.

 

The Bible says to love thy enemies...etc.