On Guard for Thee Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 You know what, you won't believe anything you see, read or witness yourself. You people will pick apart the source no matter who it is...well, unless maybe it's from the Huffington Post. If you don't like the source, maybe you should do a little research. You people will buy into global warming without a shred of evidence, but you'll defend these people all day long regardless of how many terrorist attacks happen each week. There is a ton more than a shred of evidence re: GW. And what a lot of us want is to not have retaliatory terrorist attacks
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 ...what a lot of us want is to not have retaliatory terrorist attacks I'd settle for more accurate targeting of retaliatory terrorist attacks - i.e. stop hitting us lefties. I mean we're clearly not the enemies, even our own conservatives will tell you we're with the terrorists. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Having lived a few years as an (extreme by many people's measure) Christian fundamentalist, I can tell you that they feel the same. God's law supercedes man's where they conflict, and my group's interpretation of the Bible is the only legitimate one. I bet if you surveyed any religious group, you'd get the same results. And your current ideology supersedes law, equality and morality if you support Islam. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
kimmy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 I know a Muslim Canadian family who are all very well educated, with several doctors amongst them. They offer their time helping out the needy and travel to all parts of the world, in South America, Far East, everywhere, and they provide free medical help to the poor. From what they told me, it's their religious duty to do that. They don't drink but keep some in the house for guests. They support SSM. They don't wear hijab because they say there is nothing about head covering in the Koran. I'm a total heathen infidel and they genuinely love me without judging my life's choices. You're stereotyping, moderate Muslims do exist. Reread what I wrote. I am not claiming that moderate Muslims don't exist. I am pointing out that moderate by Middle Eastern standards vs moderate by Canadian standards are two different things. I'm aware that there are Canadian Muslims who hold liberal, diverse, pluralistic views. I am aware that there are even some Middle Eastern Muslims who hold liberal, diverse, pluralistic views. However, they are greatly in the minority and are often persecuted for their views. Turkey and Jordan appear to stand out as being more civilized than their neighbors, but overall these are very socially conservative countries. And when you bring in people en masse from socially conservative countries, you shouldn't be surprised when most of those people turn out to be socially conservative. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
Icebound Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 I am aware that there are even some Middle Eastern Muslims who hold liberal, diverse, pluralistic views. However, they are greatly in the minority and are often persecuted for their views. Turkey and Jordan appear to stand out as being more civilized than their neighbors, but overall these are very socially conservative countries. And when you bring in people en masse from socially conservative countries, you shouldn't be surprised when most of those people turn out to be socially conservative. -k Would that include Israel?
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Reread what I wrote. I am not claiming that moderate Muslims don't exist. I am pointing out that moderate by Middle Eastern standards vs moderate by Canadian standards are two different things. I'm aware that there are Canadian Muslims who hold liberal, diverse, pluralistic views. I am aware that there are even some Middle Eastern Muslims who hold liberal, diverse, pluralistic views. However, they are greatly in the minority and are often persecuted for their views. Turkey and Jordan appear to stand out as being more civilized than their neighbors, but overall these are very socially conservative countries. And when you bring in people en masse from socially conservative countries, you shouldn't be surprised when most of those people turn out to be socially conservative. -k I've been saying all along that its conservatism we most need to screen people for. I'd love to weed out as much as possible. Maybe even strip some our most obnoxious one's of their citizenship for good measure. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
kimmy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Would that include Israel? I wouldn't want to bring in a bunch of fundamentalist Hasidic Jews from Israel or even from Williamsburg New York. I wouldn't want to bring in a bunch of fundamentalist Deep South Baptists. If war broke out between Arkansas and Mississippi and we had tens of thousands of dumb-ass southern rednecks wanting refuge in Canada, I'd be worried about that too. Luckily I don't anticipate dumb-ass southern rednecks or Hasidic Jews swarming into Canada in significant numbers. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
drummindiver Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 I've been saying all along that its conservatism we most need to screen people for. I'd love to weed out as much as possible. Maybe even strip some our most obnoxious one's of their citizenship for good measure. So, you are clearly a bigot. Say that about Muslims and the shit would hit the fan,yet you feel free to say that with impunity. You have a conservative to thank for that freedom.
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) So, you are clearly a bigot. Say that about Muslims and the shit would hit the fan,yet you feel free to say that with impunity. I have no more trouble joking about hard-boiled Muslim conservatives than I do any other hard-boiled conservative. You have a conservative to thank for that freedom. Conservatism begs to be mocked but I'll bite - you have someone specific in mind I should be grateful to? Edited November 21, 2015 by eyeball A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
WestCanMan Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 As little as I know BUT I know this much that what you have posted above is NOT true (and I hesitate to use stronger word). Allah in Islam is same as God which is believed to also have sent other prophets like Christ and Moses, So those who don't believe in Allah are referred to as those who don't believe in God.If the Old Testament (bible) and Quran were invented today they wouldn't be allowed to be published in Canada because they are rife with orders to hate, fear and discriminate against other religions. You can beat a slave so bad that they can't get up for two days, but its only a sin if they die according to the bible The first commandment, "Thou... have false gods before me" is a blank cheque for priests to change from their peaceful rhetoric to "kill them all." If some hag in the states can interpret the bible to mean gays can't be married then it's easy enough to convince Catholics/Jews (same bible) to kill all _______'s". Allowing people to act according to their religious convictions is a recipe for discrimination at the very best. If mankind can't evolve past religion we are just going to keep reliving the same hideous crap til we finally destroy the planet. . If the Cultist Narrative Network/Cultist Broadcasting Corporation gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. Bug-juice is the new Kool-aid. Ex-Canadian since April 2025
Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Good point except; There isn't a big movement to slaughter people in the name of the old testament. Nobody is beheading people for being non-believers except radical muslims. Nobody is burying teenage girls up to their shoulders and stoning them to death except muslims. If a Christian refuses to bake a cake for a homo couple, good grief - all hell breaks loose and the left are calling out all christianity for being intolerant bigots. Islamists are slaughtering innocent people left and right and it's "oh yeah, its just a few bad eggs", "Islam is the religion of peace". lets not compare the Bible or even the Torah to the quran The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
marcus Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 When you read about terror attacks on an almost daily basis, your assertion rings hollow. And really, you don`t have to be a suicide bomber to be considered radical. Read Sharia law. I also read about drone attacks and carpet bombings that kill thousands of innocent people. Terrorism comes in all forms. You don't need a suicide vest to terrorize people. Some people condemn all terrorism and some don't. Those that don't, prefer to turn a blind eye to the inconvenient truth in order to feel like they have the upper hand in morality and to justify certain actions. Sharia law also comes in all forms and degrees. You don't see the same laws in Iran, as you would in Saudi Arabia. Brushing everything with one stroke ends up making your argument superficial and shallow. "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
marcus Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) There isn't a big movement to slaughter people in the name of the old testament. Nobody is beheading people for being non-believers except radical muslims. Innocent people, whether beheaded or disintegrated by drone missiles are ultimately killed by people who see no worth in their lives. You don't need a religion to do or support shitty things: 41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground I wonder how many of the survivors from the drone strikes end up wanting to kill. Edited November 21, 2015 by marcus "What do you think of Western civilization?" Gandhi was asked. "I think it would be a good idea," he said.
drummindiver Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 I also read about drone attacks and carpet bombings that kill thousands of innocent people. Terrorism comes in all forms. You don't need a suicide vest to terrorize people. Some people condemn all terrorism and some don't. Those that don't, prefer to turn a blind eye to the inconvenient truth in order to feel like they have the upper hand in morality and to justify certain actions. Sharia law also comes in all forms and degrees. You don't see the same laws in Iran, as you would in Saudi Arabia. Brushing everything with one stroke ends up making your argument superficial and shallow. Yes, you would see the same laws in Iran as in Saudi Arabia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_sharia_law_by_country And, instead of defending terrorism, why not say both drone strikes and terrorism are wrong, instead of the- but, drones.
Scotty Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 She said a moderate Muslim believes in punishing gays instead of killing them and I gave an example of devout Muslim family doing exactly the opposite. If you fail to see the relevance of my post, that's on you. The irrelevance lies in that she was clearly speaking in general terms and you are clearly speaking in the specific. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Scotty Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance Yes, you want to make it mean ONLY that but it doesn't. Bigotry suggests intolerance for others opinions and beliefs, and I see a lot of intolerance on here for other people's opinions and beliefs. It is an inverted moral calculus that tries to persuade the world to demonize one state that tries its civilized best to abide in a difficult time and place, and rides merrily by the examples and practices of dozens of states and leaderships that drop into brutality every day without a twinge of regret or a whisper of condemnation. - Rex Murphy
Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Innocent people, whether beheaded or disintegrated by drone missiles are ultimately killed by people who see no worth in their lives. You don't need a religion to do or support shitty things: 41 men targeted but 1,147 people killed: US drone strikes – the facts on the ground I wonder how many of the survivors from the drone strikes end up wanting to kill. No, you don't need religion to do shitty things, but that wasn't the comparison. The comparison that I was addressing was between the bible and the quran. The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Bryan Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) I'm not even sure how to respond to that. Think about it. None of the groups I mentioned are nationalities. None of them are races. They are organizations that you have to decide to join. All of them have the same basic foundation -- identify the enemy and force them out, terrorize them, and inflict force and violence against them. Their founding documents support this, and their founders led by example. In each case, only a small percentage at any given time actually carry out these acts. In each case, the groups have a large number of members who claim that they don't do that kind of stuff. So why is it that when someone is a member of one of those groups we give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not like those others and would never do those things, but the other we do not? Edited November 21, 2015 by Bryan
Michael Hardner Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 So why is it that when someone is a member of one of those groups we give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not like those others and would never do those things, but the others we do not? I'm following you but when you say "those groups" are you referring to the KKK and those in your quote here or other groups ? Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner
WestCoastRunner Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) In case there are Syrians lurking on this site, here are some heart warming ways Canadians are helping the refugees. I think it's important to highlight these to offset the bashing that is taking place on this forum. The following humanitarian acts are the Canadian way. A Canadian couple cancels their large wedding and instead hope to raised $27,000 to sponsor a family of 4.Vancouver property developer Ian Gillespie is refurbishing and furnishing a 12-unit property in the city's West End in order to provide temporary accommodations for Syrian refugees.Vancouver jewish temple raises $40,000 to sponsor a family.Enerjet, Canada’s youngest charter airline based in Calgary, has contacted federal immigration officials in hopes of using both of its Boeing 737, 148-seater planes to bring refugees here.Canada’s largest federation of labour unions and councils, the Canadian Labour Congress, initiated the Syrian Refugee Support Fund and has asked the Canadian Council for Refugees to manage it. The council represents refugee advocacy groups across the country. What are your communities doing to help? http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/vancouver-real-estste-developer-ian-gillespie-syrian-refugees-1.3327123 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34883292 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/refugee-crisis-temple-shalom-sponsors-syrian-refugee-family-1.3325410 http://travelindustrytoday.com/2015-11-19-enerjet-offers-to-help-transport-refugees::22808 http://www.rcinet.ca/en/2015/10/21/new-fund-will-help-syrian-refugees-in-canada/ Edited November 22, 2015 by WestCoastRunner fixed [QUOTE] format I love to see a young girl go out and grab the world by the lapels. Life's a bitch. You've got to go out and kick ass. - Maya Angelou
kimmy Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Good point except; There isn't a big movement to slaughter people in the name of the old testament. It might not be a "big" movement, but there are definitely US Christians calling for execution of gay people in accordance with "God's Law" as specified in the Old Testament. As I mentioned in the Republicans 2016 thread, some of these pastors held a big conference recently that was attended by Cruz, Huckabee, and Jindal. US Christians like Scott Lively were also involved in promoting the "Kill the Gays" law in Uganda, again in the name of Old Testament morality. I guess it's a matter of how you define "big", but these are pastors with congregations who go to hear them each week and pay tithes... lets not compare the Bible or even the Torah to the quran I think the biggest difference between the Bible and the Quran is that most followers of the former reject the more heinous aspects of that text, while many followers of the latter clearly don't. -k (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ Friendly forum facilitator! ┬──┬◡ﾉ(° -°ﾉ)
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Good point except; There isn't a big movement to slaughter people in the name of the old testament. Nobody is beheading people for being non-believers except radical muslims. Nobody is burying teenage girls up to their shoulders and stoning them to death except muslims. If a Christian refuses to bake a cake for a homo couple, good grief - all hell breaks loose and the left are calling out all christianity for being intolerant bigots. Islamists are slaughtering innocent people left and right and it's "oh yeah, its just a few bad eggs", "Islam is the religion of peace". lets not compare the Bible or even the Torah to the quran It's our actions that we need to compare to our words. So with that and what you said in mind...do you realize we have allies that do these awful things and even worse? We have had them as allies for decades and we actually provide them with weapons and material support. Your issue with those who slaughter innocent people in the name of something or other has a really hollow ring to it. A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
eyeball Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Yes, you want to make it mean ONLY that but it doesn't. Bigotry suggests intolerance for others opinions and beliefs, and I see a lot of intolerance on here for other people's opinions and beliefs.I think it's a good thing that the manner by which we conduct ourselves on the world's stage is becoming such a polarizing issue at home. I think our behaviour towards other people has been disgusting, why should I feel any differently towards anyone who wants to keep behaving that way? A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
Hal 9000 Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 It's our actions that we need to compare to our words. So with that and what you said in mind...do you realize we have allies that do these awful things and even worse? We have had them as allies for decades and we actually provide them with weapons and material support. Your issue with those who slaughter innocent people in the name of something or other has a really hollow ring to it. Which allies would that be? The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
On Guard for Thee Posted November 21, 2015 Report Posted November 21, 2015 Yes, you want to make it mean ONLY that but it doesn't. Bigotry suggests intolerance for others opinions and beliefs, and I see a lot of intolerance on here for other people's opinions and beliefs.I don't want to make it ONLY that, however it seems pretty clear that when the discussion is about Islamophobia, you are into that portion of the definition.
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