Trudeau's Committment to Syrian Refugees - 25,000 by Year End

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

You're not confused at all are you? I wonder what that could mean!

He wants to give work based benefits such as his ancestors got I assumed ? I don't know exactly.

Hal 9000 · November 21, 2015

He wants to give work based benefits such as his ancestors got I assumed ? I don't know exactly.

No, you didn't assume that.

He clearly pointed out the difference between the immigrants that built this country and the immigrants of today. It's you who are twisting a very logical point to fit your narrative. If you disagree - fair enough, make that argument, but don't pull the weak "by that logic" crap, because it's only you changing the goalposts.

Off topic, how do I report someone who is obviously trolling?

Michael Hardner · November 21, 2015

Off topic, how do I report someone who is obviously trolling?

There's a report link at the bottom of each post.

socialist · November 21, 2015

No, you didn't assume that.

He clearly pointed out the difference between the immigrants that built this country and the immigrants of today. It's you who are twisting a very logical point to fit your narrative. If you disagree - fair enough, make that argument, but don't pull the weak "by that logic" crap, because it's only you changing the goalposts.

Off topic, how do I report someone who is obviously trolling?

Yes, my point was obvious. Different eras, different concerns. I din't think what I said was that confusing. Oh well..... Mr. Hardner doesn't like me, and he's trying to bait me. I will continue to discuss the issues and give my opinions.

Edited November 21, 2015 by socialist

Hal 9000 · November 21, 2015

Yes, my point was obvious. Different eras, different concerns. I din't think what I said was that confusing. Oh well..... Mr. Hardner doesn't like me, and he's trying to bait me. I will continue to discuss the issues and give my opinions.

Unusual for a mod, but yes it's quite obvious.

dialamah · November 21, 2015

Yes, incentives based on hard work, like trying to attract Eastern European immigrants with free farmland that wasn't prepared to be farmed. They made it because they were forced to work hard clearing land. Nowadays, it's get in and social benefits will look after you, with no incentive to work. Big difference, Mike.

Except it isn't true. Immigrants to Canada have to either be sponsored or have jobs, or fit into a category which would mean they would very likely get jobs quickly, and that they have the resources to support themselves until they get that job. Sponsors are financially responsible for spouses for 3 years; for other family members, it's 10. Non-refugees are not allowed to come to Canada unless they can prove they will not be a burden on our social services. Obviously, things can and do go wrong, but overall, immigrant populations use welfare less than Canadian populations; they rely on family over the State. And, if a sponsored immigrant collects welfare, the Supreme Court has upheld the right of the government to collect from the original sponsor. So, contrary to rumor and myth, it's not a welfare-free-ride-for-immigrants situation in Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ctc-vac/getting-started.asp-- try various scenarios, see what would get you in. I tried to be an Immigrant from France, with no job offers, no sponsors, no family, good language skills and very little money. Guess what? I did not qualify.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sponsors-of-rogue-immigrants-must-repay-welfare-supreme-court-rules/article582826/

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2222361-10-myths-about-immigration/

socialist · November 21, 2015

Except it isn't true. Immigrants to Canada have to either be sponsored or have jobs, or fit into a category which would mean they would very likely get jobs quickly, and that they have the resources to support themselves until they get that job. Sponsors are financially responsible for spouses for 3 years; for other family members, it's 10. Non-refugees are not allowed to come to Canada unless they can prove they will not be a burden on our social services. Obviously, things can and do go wrong, but overall, immigrant populations use welfare less than Canadian populations; they rely on family over the State. And, if a sponsored immigrant collects welfare, the Supreme Court has upheld the right of the government to collect from the original sponsor. So, contrary to rumor and myth, it's not a welfare-free-ride-for-immigrants situation in Canada.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/ctc-vac/getting-started.asp-- try various scenarios, see what would get you in. I tried to be an Immigrant from France, with no job offers, no sponsors, no family, good language skills and very little money. Guess what? I did not qualify.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/sponsors-of-rogue-immigrants-must-repay-welfare-supreme-court-rules/article582826/

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2222361-10-myths-about-immigration/

I disagree with you. It is a free ride.

marcus · November 21, 2015

I already said that since they are no longer able to show any victories or conquests in the middle east they need to kill some easy targets in Europe so they can crow about it and recruit more cannon fodder for the fight.

If you think our role in the Middle East, including drone attacks that have killed thousands of innocent people are not a tool that is used by these terrorists to recruit people, then my comment still stands; Your views are very shallow and superficial.

dialamah · November 21, 2015

I disagree with you. It is a free ride.

Of course you do; facts should not be allowed to interfere with a good story.

socialist · November 21, 2015

Of course you do; facts should not be allowed to interfere with a good story.

Immigrants of the past came here for freedom and the right to work hard and make a better living while contributing to their new country. I am the descendant of Eastern European immigrants who got a piece of land on the prairies. They got a piece of shitty land and were able to turn it into farmable land. They worked damn hard, many hours a day, raised large families, and for the most part were self-sufficient without nanny government giving them oodles of social benefits.

I may now live in the city but I am not ignorant of the past.

dialamah · November 21, 2015

Immigrants of the past came here for freedom and the right to work hard and make a better living while contributing to their new country. I am the descendant of Eastern European immigrants who got a piece of land on the prairies. They got a piece of shitty land and were able to turn it into farmable land. They worked damn hard, many hours a day, raised large families, and for the most part were self-sufficient without nanny government giving them oodles of social benefits.

I may now live in the city but I am not ignorant of the past.

I'm a descendant of the ruling class from the late 1700s to early 1800s on my mother's side, and immigrants from the late 1800s on my father's side. I win, eh?

Anyway, according to the Government of Canada, early settlers got more than you think ...

Historical Development
In the early days of settlement in Canada, it was common practice for settlers to receive assistance, in the form of land grants, basic food requirements, clothing and working equipment, from both public and private sources, within Canada and abroad, in order to establish themselves in their new homeland. Care for the sick and the needy was essentially a local responsibility. During periods characterized by large flows of immigration, many people were held at immigration centres because of sickness and contagious disease. Initial legislation to provide welfare aid by the provincial governments was directed toward support for families left destitute due to illness, death or desertion. The British North America Act indicated that welfare was primarily the responsibility of provincial and local governments except for the indigenous and immigrant populations for whom the federal government assumed primary responsibility.

cannuck · November 21, 2015

BY GOSH, I think we're onto something here.

We need to BE respectful of the traditions that built Canada and do just as our forefathers did and provide a land grant to these refugee immigrants - from aboriginal lands - just as we did before.

Just think of the example that hard working, ambitious immigrant populations could set on reserves with 95% unemployment. We can also count on devout Sunnis not doing the booze and drug thing either.

Even fits with Federal responsibilities, so no new bureaucracy needed.

Talk about win - win !!

Edited November 21, 2015 by cannuck

eyeball · November 21, 2015

Speaking of aboriginals has anyone consulted them about the commitments towards refugees that Canada has made? I'm surprised our constitutional obligation to consult aboriginal people isn't a factor in this issue - I know I'd like to hear their perspective on it.

bush_cheney2004 · November 21, 2015

Speaking of aboriginals has anyone consulted them about the commitments towards refugees that Canada has made? I'm surprised our constitutional obligation to consult aboriginal people isn't a factor in this issue - I know I'd like to hear their perspective on it.

Somebody expressed an unofficial sentiment in previous threads years ago on MLW...something to the effect of "now you know how First Nations reacted when the first immigrants/refugees showed up on our shores".

On Guard for Thee · November 21, 2015

Speaking of aboriginals has anyone consulted them about the commitments towards refugees that Canada has made? I'm surprised our constitutional obligation to consult aboriginal people isn't a factor in this issue - I know I'd like to hear their perspective on it.

Here's one perspective.

http://aptn.ca/news/2015/09/17/mikmaw-professor-calling-on-indigenous-leaders-to-push-canada-to-accept-more-syrian-refugees/

dialamah · November 21, 2015

BY GOSH, I think we're onto something here.

We need to BE respectful of the traditions that built Canada and do just as our forefathers did and provide a land grant to these refugee immigrants - from aboriginal lands - just as we did before.

Just think of the example that hard working, ambitious immigrant populations could set on reserves with 95% unemployment. We can also count on devout Sunnis not doing the booze and drug thing either.

Even fits with Federal responsibilities, so no new bureaucracy needed.

Talk about win - win !!

I'm pretty sure this is tongue-in-cheek, but I agree, and actually, it doesn't even have to be Aboriginal land, Crown land will do as well - my parents got 10 acres free just for putting a habitable dwelling on the land within five years of possession as did most of our neighbors (all of white European descent), under the Homesteading act in the late 60s. Of course, my parents were on the hook for power, water, and sewer, so for the first few years we drank and used barely-filtered water from the nearby lake. brought to the house in a huge galvanized tin box dad welded together. No idea how 'safe' that lake is (or was) but dad made sure to get the water from beyond where the algae bloomed every year. And baths were in pretty short supply till we got the well in.

I wonder how many Canadians today would actually want to live that way for any amount of time? Or how many immigrants/refugees would, if the option were open to them? But the Homestead Act in BC was eliminated in 1970.

capricorn · November 23, 2015

Soldiers and military personnel at a Kingston, Ont. base are being asked to clear their barracks to make room for an early wave of Syrian refugees arriving in just over a week, CTV News has learned.

Multiple residences at CFB Kingston are being cleared for Nov. 30 to house the refugees, according to an internal memo obtained by CTV News.

--

And while the memo warns of the fast-approaching deadline, it does not indicate where military personnel will be resettled. However, it does say a place will be found for the personnel.

The notice comes just two days after Minister of Immigration and Refugees John McCallum reaffirmed the government’s plan to resettle 25,000 Syrian refugees by the end of 2015.

“We are determined to bring refugees here quickly, but we are also determined to do it right in terms of security and in terms of health,” he said.

“This is the right thing to do,” he added. “It is the Canadian way.”

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111

Is it also the Canadian way to boot our military personnel out of their residences with little notice to make way for refugees? So much for Trudeau's pledge that our troops would receive better treatment than under the Conservatives.

WestCoastRunner · November 23, 2015

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/troops-clearing-space-at-cfb-kingston-for-syrian-refugees-1.2670111

Is it also the Canadian way to boot our military personnel out of their residences with little notice to make way for refugees? So much for Trudeau's pledge that our troops would receive better treatment than under the Conservatives.

No, the Canadian way is to provide humanitarian aid to the refugees. They will eventually be spread out over Canada in the coming months. Don't worry, I'm sure our miliary personnel won't be left out on the cold winter streets of Canada.

capricorn · November 23, 2015

No, the Canadian way is to provide humanitarian aid to the refugees.

I never said I was opposed to accepting 25,000 refugees. Like many here, it's the process I object to.

Wilber · November 23, 2015

Don't worry, I'm sure our miliary personnel won't be left out on the cold winter streets of Canada.

Merry Christmas! Now get out, we need your place.

capricorn · November 23, 2015

Merry Christmas! Now get out, we need your place.

And the same soldiers that have been booted out of their place will be assigned to guard those very same premises now housing refugees.

poochy · November 23, 2015

It is Islamophobic to suggest not rushing the screening process over security concerns, but it isn't when you exclude a portion of the refugees for simply being unattached males, the vast majority of whom are obviously not terrorists, it's the very definition of profiling. But when it's being done by liberals it's suddenly not a problem.

poochy · November 23, 2015

Merry Christmas! Now get out, we need your place.

It's the Canadian way, treat your own people like garbage so you can appear to be the nice, useless country liberals think you should be.

notca · November 23, 2015

I'm a descendant of the ruling class from the late 1700s to early 1800s on my mother's side, and immigrants from the late 1800s on my father's side. I win, eh?

Anyway, according to the Government of Canada, early settlers got more than you think ...

Whoever is putting out this crap is full of it! Talk about rewriting history!

I don't know where all this 'government help' was when my ancestors came in the late 1700s. All of the immigrants who came here around that time went through hardships not even imagined by today' immigrants and they did so willingly ON THEIR OWN!

Where was government assistance when the Selkirk Settlers perished, every one of them?

No, this Government of Canada BS is just that - BS.

Smallc · November 23, 2015

I never said I was opposed to accepting 25,000 refugees. Like many here, it's the process I object to.

You don't even know the process yet, and won't until tomorrow.

Like many conservatives, you're disheartened by the win of PMJT. Conservatives in general have started their attacks on him far to early for most of them to be in any way credible.