Big Guy Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 In another thread, there had been a reference to a suicide. One of the posters referred to the act of suicide to be cowardly. I do know that many people feel it is an act of bravery and yet others write it off as the result of a deadly disease called depression. http://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/help/bb/info/suicide Approximately 3,500 suicides take place in Canada annually, slightly below deaths due to cancers of the colon and breast. Suicide is the seventh-most common cause of death among Canadian males, and tenth-highest among both sexes combined. It appears to be the least talked about cause of death in the world. Is suicide an act of bravery or one of cowardice? Quote Note - For those expecting a response from Big Guy: I generally do not read or respond to posts longer then 300 words nor to parsed comments.
-1=e^ipi Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Neither. More like an act of depression and mental illness. Quote
msj Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 How about suicide just is. Without all the moral justification or judgement. 1 in 5 of us will likely suffer mental illness in our lives which may lead to suicide attempt(s) so who am I to call this one justifiable and that one cowardice. Quote If a believer demands that I, as a non-believer, observe his taboos in the public domain, he is not asking for my respect but for my submission. And that is incompatible with a secular democracy. Flemming Rose (Dutch journalist) My biggest takeaway from economics is that the past wasn't as good as you remember, the present isn't as bad as you think, and the future will be better than you anticipate. Morgan Housel http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2016/01/14/things-im-pretty-sure-about.aspx
ReeferMadness Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I have to say that I find the title and tone of this thread tasteless and offensive. I've never thought of the people I've known who've committed suicide or attempted suicide as heroes or cowards. I've just remembered them for who they were in life. Suicide is like anything else. People do it for all different reasons. Trying to generalize is ridiculous. Quote Unlimited economic growth has the marvelous quality of stilling discontent while preserving privilege, a fact that has not gone unnoticed among liberal economists. - Noam Chomsky It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it. - Upton Sinclair
Guest Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 How about suicide just is. Without all the moral justification or judgement. 1 in 5 of us will likely suffer mental illness in our lives which may lead to suicide attempt(s) so who am I to call this one justifiable and that one cowardice. I have to say that I find the title and tone of this thread tasteless and offensive. I've never thought of the people I've known who've committed suicide or attempted suicide as heroes or cowards. I've just remembered them for who they were in life. Suicide is like anything else. People do it for all different reasons. Trying to generalize is ridiculous. These comments are pretty much my view too. Quote
Moonlight Graham Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 (edited) Neither brave nor cowardly. An act of desperation to relieve unbearable emotional pain. I agree with others, let's not judge. Edited August 26, 2015 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
PIK Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I would say coward because it takes courage to fight. Now I am just answering the question. Depression is a evil thing. Quote Toronto, like a roach motel in the middle of a pretty living room.
eyeball Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Neither is the correct answer. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Boges Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I don't always agree that suicide is an act of cowardice. But it's never a heroic act unless you're blowing up yourself on an Asteroid so Ben Afleck and the rest of the crew can escape. Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I would have never expected anyone to try making a joke regarding such a subject, but getting back to it: I doubt any of us can know for sure the desperation or pain,either mental or physical, or both, that an individual must have gone through to arrive at such an extreme decision. Therefore trying to pass judgement holus bolus is faulty and discriminatory. Quote
eyeball Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 An act of self-sacrifice to save others is so different from an act of suicide especially in the context of the OP that it really doesn't belong in the discussion. If you jump on a grenade your intent isn't to kill yourself as much as it is to save your buddies. There's a world of difference, Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
-1=e^ipi Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I doubt any of us can know for sure the desperation or pain,either mental or physical, or both, that an individual must have gone through to arrive at such an extreme decision. I do. Quote
Boges Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 I do. Yeah if someone has never felt that their life just not worth living at some point then I'd argue they live a very privileged life. Quote
Topaz Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 As its been said, there are many reasons for one committing suicide....the person who is dying of an incurable disease and doesn't want their loves to suffer while watching them slip away physically to nothing, then there the person who is sick mentally, like many of our troops coming back from war, some do it because they can't deal with going back to hell they have to live with while over there, very understanding by the way. Quote
socialist Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 We have so much more material wealth these days but in the end most people are feeling less. Quote Thankful to have become a free thinker.
-1=e^ipi Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 Men have 3.5 times as many suicides per capita as women. LGBTQIA+ people have much higher suicide rates than the vast majority of the population. This strongly suggests to me that gender roles are the primary cause of the majority of suicides in Canada and elsewhere. Quote
Army Guy Posted August 26, 2015 Report Posted August 26, 2015 As its been said, there are many reasons for one committing suicide....the person who is dying of an incurable disease and doesn't want their loves to suffer while watching them slip away physically to nothing, then there the person who is sick mentally, like many of our troops coming back from war, some do it because they can't deal with going back to hell they have to live with while over there, very understanding by the way. In regards to the troops, i think your on the wrong track, going back was not the problem, many of those soldiers that have PTSD have completed multiple tours.....going back although not easy for anyone, was the easy part, after all soldiers have an image to portray as both mental , physically tough as steel....anything less than that, well would question your abilities as a soldier...and for a soldier this is the real beast of burden.....to live up to the recruiting posters.....not to let your comrades down ever.... Regardless of how much training a soldier gets , we still do not properly prepare our soldiers for the sights, smells, noises, and feel of war....we do not train our soldiers on the evil man is capable of....I do know that anyone that has been in a combat zone will come home changed, changes in personalities, moods, habits, different outlook on life, whats important whats not.... everyone handles the experience differently.....but everyone comes back different and will have to contend with all or a few of the above.....coming back to love ones is a special moment, however they are the first to notice the change, they either adjust to the changes, or reject them out right which cause a new external source of grief that a soldier needs to cope with. mental illness requires more than one person to combat....it takes the whole village....loaners normally don't make it.... Lets not forget, these guys were in a combat zone for 6 months or more, living breathing the craft of being a soldier doing so to survive.....then they are plucked out of combat , put on a plane if they are lucky they have some decompression time with their comrades.... normally 3 or 4 days, where we receive some lectures on how to act what to do when back in the real world....., they spend the rest of time getting drunk beyond your wildest imagination, recalling good times and bad times, laughing and crying.........then as if by some miracle your cured go to go..... pushed back on a plane and thrown back into society....where you are expected to be civilized once again....these are all added pressures that all add up, to an over load.....until they can not cope with the simple things in life..... For most we quickly adapt back to normal life, we learn to live with our dreams, accept responsibility for our actions we did , but this for me anyways can take awhile.....for some they can't cope.....they don't come back to normal....they will however put up a wall, hide their pain, live up to those recruiting posters as a tough guy.....until one day they can't live with the pain any more, and decide to leave us..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Suicide is not only cowardice, it's selfish. "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H Lawrence. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Suicide is not only cowardice, it's selfish. "I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself." D.H Lawrence. Bollocks is it. Having that attitude towards it is selfsh. I actually saw a small bird on its way to Switzerland to visit Dignitas, but it died of exhaustion during the flight. It was a penguin. Quote
waldo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 I would have never expected anyone to try making a joke regarding such a subject, but getting back to it: I doubt any of us can know for sure the desperation or pain,either mental or physical, or both, that an individual must have gone through to arrive at such an extreme decision. Therefore trying to pass judgement holus bolus is faulty and discriminatory. other than you (and one member subsequent to you), no one had the insight to recognize physical impairment/pain as a driver... which also typically carries an element of associated mental depression given the debilitating physical impacts. I will challenge anyone here that so callously throws around the cowardice/selfish labeling to observe the rapid body degeneration typically associated with, for example, ALS... just one of many, many diseases that inflict such horrendous suffering on the individual affected and related family/friends. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Bollocks is it. Having that attitude towards it is selfsh. I actually saw a small bird on its way to Switzerland to visit Dignitas, but it died of exhaustion during the flight. It was a penguin. You disagree that suicide is selfish? When a person does this are they thinking about the parents that have to live with that for the rest of their lives, the children who won't grow up with a parent or the siblings and friends who have to get on with life? No, it's all about them and how they're feeling. It's selfish, perhaps the most selfish thing a person can do. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 other than you (and one member subsequent to you), no one had the insight to recognize physical impairment/pain as a driver... which also typically carries an element of associated mental depression given the debilitating physical impacts. I will challenge anyone here that so callously throws around the cowardice/selfish labeling to observe the rapid body degeneration typically associated with, for example, ALS... just one of many, many diseases that inflict such horrendous suffering on the individual affected and related family/friends. C'mon, we're not talking about ALS/Cancer/Aids or jumping on a grenade and you know it. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
waldo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 C'mon, we're not talking about ALS/Cancer/Aids or jumping on a grenade and you know it. perhaps you should re-read the OP! Quote
On Guard for Thee Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Waldo was mentioning the idea of callousness. Well it seems to have arrived in spades. Quote
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Posted August 27, 2015 Callous, No! I feel for the victims of suicide - the family and loved ones. Quote The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn't so. - Ronald Reagan I have said that the Western world is just as violent as the Islamic world - Dialamah Europe seems to excel at fooling people to immigrate there from the ME only to chew them up and spit them back. - Eyeball Unfortunately our policies have contributed to retarding and limiting their (Muslim's) society's natural progression towards the same enlightened state we take for granted. - Eyeball
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