Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 You disagree that suicide is selfish? When a person does this are they thinking about the parents that have to live with that for the rest of their lives, the children who won't grow up with a parent or the siblings and friends who have to get on with life? No, it's all about them and how they're feeling. It's selfish, perhaps the most selfish thing a person can do. I can't imagine that any of those you mention would be so selfish as to insist that their loved one continue when they want to stop. Now that would be selfish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I can't imagine that any of those you mention would be so selfish as to insist that their loved one continue when they want to stop. Now that would be selfish! So...suicide prevention is a selfish act - Ok! I never saw that angle before, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 So...suicide prevention is a selfish act - Ok! I never saw that angle before, thanks It seems to be. You want someone to suffer so you don't have to. What would you call it? What would D. H. Lawrence say about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonam Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 You disagree that suicide is selfish? When a person does this are they thinking about the parents that have to live with that for the rest of their lives, the children who won't grow up with a parent or the siblings and friends who have to get on with life? No, it's all about them and how they're feeling. It's selfish, perhaps the most selfish thing a person can do. In many cases people think the opposite. That due to their condition, problems, etc, they are placing an excessive burden on their family, and that they can make the lives of others easier/better by committing suicide. Whether that perception is correct or not is another matter, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Suicide is not selfish. For goodness sakes, why do people feel they have the right to call suicide victims 'cowardly'. Let me state that again. Suicide victims include the person who actually committed the act as well as the people they left behind. Sometimes people who commit suicide are mentally ill and sometimes they are physically ill. At the point of suicide, do you really think they are asking themselves 'Am I being a coward'?, 'What will happen to my family'? Of course not. They are well beyond that point of thinking rationally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 You disagree that suicide is selfish? When a person does this are they thinking about the parents that have to live with that for the rest of their lives, the children who won't grow up with a parent or the siblings and friends who have to get on with life? No, it's all about them and how they're feeling. It's selfish, perhaps the most selfish thing a person can do. It's not selfish. It's a person suffering tremendously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 In many cases people think the opposite. That due to their condition, problems, etc, they are placing an excessive burden on their family, and that they can make the lives of others easier/better by committing suicide. Whether that perception is correct or not is another matter, of course. I'm sure that's true is some cases. I know it's a popular sentiment for suicide notes and we hear it all the time on TV, but what it amounts to is simple self pity. "They'd be better off without me" is just like "i'm getting bullied", he/she left me for someone else, "I went bankrupt", "I'm different because I'm gay", "spouse cheated on me" etc.etc, it's still self pity and selfishness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 C'mon, we're not talking about ALS/Cancer/Aids or jumping on a grenade and you know it. So you are saying that people can commit suicide if the reason is valid according to your agenda? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) I'm sure that's true is some cases. I know it's a popular sentiment for suicide notes and we hear it all the time on TV, but what it amounts to is simple self pity. "They'd be better off without me" is just like "i'm getting bullied", he/she left me for someone else, "I went bankrupt", "I'm different because I'm gay", "spouse cheated on me" etc.etc, it's still self pity and selfishness. You need to research the topic of suicide. Broaden your mind. Nothing anyone can say here can educate you. Educate yourself. Edited August 27, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 So you are saying that people can commit suicide if the reason is valid according to your agenda? Well, I'm glad you asked because...yes! Taking your life a'la Sue Rodiguiz is way different that depression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Well, I'm glad you asked because...yes! Taking your life a'la Sue Rodiguiz is way different that depression. You don't think Sue was depressed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 look i by no means am i an expert......but I think before Suicide becomes an option alot of things have already passed, but those i watch go through this process, there has always been a series of events.....trouble at work, good soldiers coming in late, missing key appointments, their performance dropping, as these pressures grow, so do other problems, trouble at home is now a major factor, hard for wives and kids to adjust to all these changes as well, that friction just grows until the relationship breaks down, adding another stressor.....drinking and drugs and getting into trouble with the law.....leading to perhaps dismissal from the job, which leads to self doubt over ones worth.... i have never understood the pain, either, nor could i imagine how powerful it is....but i have talked to a few guys that say it comes to a point it is all they can think off....ending it all .....is it a cowardly act, i used to think so....but not any more....nor do i believe it is a brave act.....just a person that has lost hope, and has run out of options, and is not thinking clearly...it takes time to heal, lots of time, and lots of people to make a difference.....hard to convince someone they are worth the effort when they don't believe they are themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I'm sure that's true is some cases. I know it's a popular sentiment for suicide notes and we hear it all the time on TV, but what it amounts to is simple self pity. "They'd be better off without me" is just like "i'm getting bullied", he/she left me for someone else, "I went bankrupt", "I'm different because I'm gay", "spouse cheated on me" etc.etc, it's still self pity and selfishness. Honestly, what rubbish. Life is just an accident. No one asked for it. It's perfectly reasonable to want to end it if you don't like it. Soon, with any luck, one will be able to so with the help of a doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Suicide is not selfish. For goodness sakes, why do people feel they have the right to call suicide victims 'cowardly'. Let me state that again. Suicide victims include the person who actually committed the act as well as the people they left behind. Sometimes people who commit suicide are mentally ill and sometimes they are physically ill. At the point of suicide, do you really think they are asking themselves 'Am I being a coward'?, 'What will happen to my family'? Of course not. They are well beyond that point of thinking rationally. They're not thinking irrationally! Right. But, you said it yourself, they're not thinking about their family. They are looking at their own self pity - Illness, sure I can buy into that, but it still doesn't mean they're not selfish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 i have never understood the pain, either, nor could i imagine how powerful it is....but i have talked to a few guys that say it comes to a point it is all they can think off....ending it all .....is it a cowardly act, i used to think so....but not any more....nor do i believe it is a brave act.....just a person that has lost hope, and has run out of options, and is not thinking clearly...it takes time to heal, lots of time, and lots of people to make a difference.....hard to convince someone they are worth the effort when they don't believe they are themselves. Exactly. It is a complex scenario and no one should judge anyone that commits this act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) They're not thinking irrationally! Right. But, you said it yourself, they're not thinking about their family. They are looking at their own self pity - Illness, sure I can buy into that, but it still doesn't mean they're not selfish. In that state of mind, being selfish never enters their mind. Like I say, educate yourself. Edited August 27, 2015 by WestCoastRunner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 You don't think Sue was depressed? Having an incurable degenerative disease and wanting to die with dignity is not a mental illness. I watched...horrified as people jumped from the WTC - that's not the same either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 Having an incurable degenerative disease and wanting to die with dignity is not a mental illness. I watched...horrified as people jumped from the WTC - that's not the same either. As I said, many reasons exist for suicide. But according to you, certain situations give people a 'pass'. Except, mental illness doesn't give them a pass. This is the problem with society and mental illness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) But, you said it yourself, they're not thinking about their family. They are looking at their own self pity - Illness, sure I can buy into that, but it still doesn't mean they're not selfish. nice broad brush you're applying there! Any particular reason you feel the need to denigrate most everyone that chooses suicide? Why not be perfectly clear and state under what circumstances you accept suicide - if any! Edited August 27, 2015 by waldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 In that state of mind, being selfish never enters their mind. Like I say, educate yourself. I honestly know a lot about it. Just because I don't by the hype doesn't make me bad or wrong. People have mental illness, obviously. I'm not saying they don't, I'm not even saying that the act is unfogiveable. What I'm saying is that it's selfish, wether they know it or not makes no difference. You're agreeing with me that it's selfish, but then saying it doesn't enter their mind. It doesn't enter their mind because they're so self absorbed by their own self pity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal 9000 Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 nice broad brush you're applying there! Any particular reason you feel the need to denigrate most everyone that chooses suicide? Why not be perfectly clear and state under what circumstances you accept suicide - if any! I think I just did! Look up^^ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 They're not thinking irrationally! Right. But, you said it yourself, they're not thinking about their family. They are looking at their own self pity - Illness, sure I can buy into that, but it still doesn't mean they're not selfish. What if they don't have family? What if they are just by themselves and in a lot of pain, and things ain't getting or going to get, any better? I think it's petty actually to reckon you have the right to decide how they are morally responsible to conduct themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastRunner Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think I just did! Look up^^ And we should accept your 'reasons' for someone to commit suicide without being called 'cowardly'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I honestly know a lot about it. Just because I don't by the hype doesn't make me bad or wrong. People have mental illness, obviously. I'm not saying they don't, I'm not even saying that the act is unfogiveable. What I'm saying is that it's selfish, wether they know it or not makes no difference. You're agreeing with me that it's selfish, but then saying it doesn't enter their mind. It doesn't enter their mind because they're so self absorbed by their own self pity. Where the f*&^k do you think you have the right to decide what is going on in the mind of a suicidal person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted August 27, 2015 Report Share Posted August 27, 2015 I think I just did! Look up^^ I see you dropping many posts; I simply thought rather than try to interpret across all your many posts, I'd simply ask for a summation. Apparently, you're somewhat resistant to the idea of actually providing a clear understanding of your position. I'll ask again... obviously its your prerogative to ignore it once again: Why not be perfectly clear and state under what circumstances you accept suicide - if any... and why not qualify those you accept - if any... as in state why you accept them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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