War Against ISIL

[Rue]

Traps, little girls going to school, simple minds, seeking simple solutions. Fine fiddles. Buzz words. Buzz buzz buzz.

The irony is Big Guy who condescends those who disagree with him as simplistic demonstrates in his own works it sure as hell does not takes a complex mind to call others simple when all he can do is repeat the same mantra post after post and thinks the way to analyze the world is to limit it to his insights gained from Al Jazeera articles.

Its laughable to see someone quote Al Jazeera and thinks he's in the position to pose as complex in his analysis compared to those he disagrees with.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Rue

[Rue]

Argus a s you of course are well aware the first thing an apologist for terrorists does to justify their denial of what terrorism is, is to deny the word terror has any meaning.

Big Guy's entire thesis is one actually calls it that is to deny terrorism and pass it off as harmless attention getting behavior that should be ignored and it will go away.

In his fantasy world if you ignore terror, it poof vanishes.

No one who has seen or experienced terrorism would talk or could afford to talk like Big Guy and therein lies the irony.

He can't possibly fathom the point you made.

Isn't it ironic Bug Guy refers to a fiddle. He plays one no different than the legend of Nero fiddling as his world came crashing in around him.

Edited August 25, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

Thank you for breaking your "missive" into two parts. I have read them in context with your other opinions about Big Guy ( or Bug Guy whatever you prefer).

Big Guy is anti-Semitic, terrorist apologist, Palestinian lover, Israeli hater, Putin lover, Russian apologist, buzz word buzzer, Holocaust denier, terrorist denier, unfathomable, condescending bigot, mantra repeater, has bad breath and makes you laugh when he refers to Al Jazeera.

I have to update intermittently to save you some posting time.

In the future, in between your more colorful evaluations of Big Guy, please make at least a small reference to the facts of what he posted. It may make reading your submissions more interesting and increase your fan base.

Thank you for your unique replies.

[Argus]

In the future, in between your more colorful evaluations of Big Guy, please make at least a small reference to the facts of what he posted.

Post a fact some time and that might happen.

[eyeball]

Big Guy is anti-Semitic, terrorist apologist, Palestinian lover, Israeli hater, Putin lover, Russian apologist, buzz word buzzer, Holocaust denier, terrorist denier, unfathomable, condescending bigot, mantra repeater, has bad breath and makes you laugh when he refers to Al Jazeera.

Welcome to the club. Grab yourself a fiddle.

Got popcorn?

[Rue]

Big Guy you use buzz words and so tmy words serve as spray from a can of Raid used to contain your words. Or for those capable of understanding the sub text I am about to counter your Koranic decrees with some Talmudic tit for tat.

First off, I did not engage in a missive, but in fact a rebuttal to your missive. In fact you stated the missive lecturing on who is wise and who is simple dependent on whether they agree with your subjective opinion as to terrorism.

Do get your facts straight.

Your missive presumes to tell others they must agree with you or be proclaimed simple minded which I believe is a couched reference to the word infidel.

Now I appreciate this method of missive may originate from an engrained cognitive process passed on by Islamic fundamentalist cultural practices you admire and so choose to engage in.

The point is you are not a Mullah and none of us are infidel because we disagree with your doctrine as to terrorism.

I think it would be wise if we refrain from issuing fatwas on this board or blanket condemnations saying those who disagree with our doctrine are infidel or as you couch that, "simple minded".

This is a debating board not a house of worship.

Salaam

Edited August 26, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

Big Guy you ...

It appears that any recognition of your posts encourages your responses and more thread drift. It is an error that I will try not to repeat.

Now back to the thread - It appears that ISIS is slowly beginning to consolidate ISIL.:

http://www.ft.com/ig/sites/2014/isis-map/

Whatever strategy the West is using against ISIS is not working. Iran ground troops are the only bright light there that has shown any success against that Sunni extremist movement. It looks like Iran continues to be the key to success or failure.

[bush_cheney2004]

.... Iran ground troops are the only bright light there that has shown any success against that Sunni extremist movement. It looks like Iran continues to be the key to success or failure.

Patently false of course, as Kurdish forces have made significant gains against ISIL...

Since 2012, the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) has carved out an autonomous zone in northern Syria. Its militia, the YPG, has shown strong battlefield capabilities and launched the most successful campaigns against ISIL that the war has seen, coordinating its actions with US-led air strikes.

http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/syrian-kurds-fear-territorial-gains-are-at-risk-after-turkish-action

[Big Guy]

There are Canadians here and elsewhere who are rationalizing our participation in that debacle in the Middle East. Obviously our planes participate in "just a few" missions and certainly are not causing any civilians casualties. Well guess what:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadian-armed-forces-accused-of-killing-civilians-in-iraq-air-strike/article26138351/

We cannot sit back and blame others. We have blood on our hands. Millions of civilians are fleeing their country because they are being bombed. Millions of these previous citizens of Iraq, Syria, Libya etc are now refugees taking their families and trying to save them by getting out of the bombing zones. We hear about 75 refugees found cooking in the back of a truck, a few hundred drowning when their attempt at escape goes wrong, a few dozen found dead in closed crates found on ships - not our problem - is it?

If our bombs are part of that barrage of destruction that is forcing these innocent people into dangerous situations where they are dying - then it is our problem!

The bright lights on this board continue to rationalize immigration policies when we have assisted in creating chaos "over there".

And guess what - it is not gonna stay "over there". Some of the relatives of those who we have wiped out in the Middle East may decide to have revenge against us folks here. Do you blame them? Would you not do the same?

And when they come knocking on our door because we have destroyed their homes and they need a place to live we continue to spout policy, stats and other reasons to keep them out.

Getting involved in foreign wars has consequences. Consequences that those elite and safe politicians in Ottawa ignore.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.

[Big Guy]

It has been years now since a group called ISIS has established control over parts of the former Iraq and Syria and declared it the new state of ISIL ( the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant). Since no other country (except perhaps Iran) is willing to involve ground troops then it appears that ISIL is a reality that may soon have Baghdad as its capital - if the Shia are unable to stop the Sunni onslaught;

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/09/isil-suicide-bombings-strike-baghdad-150917110824995.html

Perhaps it is time to plan for a permanent new country. If the people are allowed to make their own decisions, Northern parts of Iraq would become a Kurdish state. The North Central part can stay as Iraq - a Shia state. Southern Syria can stay a Shia Syria controlled by Assad and Southern Iraq and Northern Syria become ISIL - a Sunni state.

The West has tried to draw lines on a map to create countries and found out it does not work. The people will eventually group as to religion and culture. Maybe it is time for them to make decisions of how they are to be organized.

[Derek 2.0]

Perhaps it is time to plan for a permanent new country. If the people are allowed to make their own decisions, Northern parts of Iraq would become a Kurdish state. The North Central part can stay as Iraq - a Shia state. Southern Syria can stay a Shia Syria controlled by Assad and Southern Iraq and Northern Syria become ISIL - a Sunni state.

The West has tried to draw lines on a map to create countries and found out it does not work. The people will eventually group as to religion and culture. Maybe it is time for them to make decisions of how they are to be organized.

I think you’ve confused your geography. Southern Iraq has been a Shia stronghold for centuries, and ISIL doesn’t currently have a presence there. Likewise your suggestion of a Shia controlled Southern Syria, when the Alawites (an off-shoot of Shia Islam, of which is followed by Assad) are namely geographically located in Northwestern Syria, as they’ve been for centuries…..

[Big Guy]

I base my opinion from what I can read and verify.

Those who still think the USA approach to the war against ISIS makes any sense, try:

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/09/16/general-only-4-or-5-us-trained-syrian-fighters-operating-against-isis

One of those wonderful solutions that the USA had for the fight was to send American trainers in to train and support the local Assad opposition. It was expected that this $multi-million initiative would result in between 5 and 6 thousand trained Syrian anti-Assad fighters. It has resulted in 4 - not four thousand fighters but four guys.

Yes sir, all we have to do is keep bombing anything that moves and we got this thing won!

[Rue]

Right and big Guy verifies how? Why of course by agreeing with what he reads. Lol. ....yes sir all he has to do is figure out where the Kurds live...the USA...its interesting how Big Guy uses that word-he doesn't say Obama administration, just USA but of course when he discusses Syria he makes sure to clarify anti Assad fighters. Heaven forbid he would use he word Syria or Syrians. Wouldn't be right,

Zip over his head.

Edited September 18, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

I watched CNN yesterday, They had coverage of an American general in full regalia testifying at a Congressional committee looking into US dealings with Syria. The general stated that they had tried a program (cost $500,000,000) yes five hundred million dollars training Syria rebels (those "good" guys against Assad) to fight that dictator. The result has been 5 graduates. Yes, 5 fighters at a cost of one hundred $million each.

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/09/17/isis-rebels-pentagon-starr-tsr-dnt.cnn/video/playlists/the-fight-against-isis/

Looks like their goal of 5,000 fighters will fall short.

Does anybody there know what they are doing?

[Topaz]

Ever wonder why NATO can't take out ISIS? I wonder and went searching for info and I did find this article, which may or may not be true, but it does kind of lead to what could be going on over there. Three countries are apparently behind ISIS. The US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. True? Read the following and it your views. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isis-islamic-terrorists-are-supported-by-the-us-israel-and-saudi-arabia/5396171

[Michael Hardner]

True?

False !

Front Cover stories on Jade Helm 15 could be your first clue. There's an old expression that says 'consider the source'.

[dre]

Ever wonder why NATO can't take out ISIS? I wonder and went searching for info and I did find this article, which may or may not be true, but it does kind of lead to what could be going on over there. Three countries are apparently behind ISIS. The US, Israel and Saudi Arabia. True? Read the following and it your views. http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-isis-islamic-terrorists-are-supported-by-the-us-israel-and-saudi-arabia/5396171

I think NATO wants no part of this because most people understand that ISIL is a symptom of a much harder problem to deal with, and then wiping them out would accomplish exactly nothing.

[WIP]

False !

Front Cover stories on Jade Helm 15 could be your first clue. There's an old expression that says 'consider the source'.

Maybe you can explain then, how ISIS is able to set up a rogue state that earns hard currency from oil exports that go through Turkey? I'm going on the presumption that who ISIS attacks/and doesn't attack, speaks volumes about the likelihood of clandestine support. If the US and all of the neighbouring states were really fighting ISIS, would they be able to govern a large portion of Iraq and Syria from their capital - Raqqa? With all of the aerial surveillance and drones available, someone's letting it happen.

[Alik Bahshi]

America should not have got involved in the Arab disassembly. Let the Arabs themselves decide their own affairs.

[Rue]

Sniff sniff. Ah yes..the smell of conspiracy. The war on ISIL is a false flag, so are the civil wars in Iraq, Bahrain, Yemen, the attacks on Kurds, the Iranian financing of terrorist movements, Hamas,Hezbollah, Al Quaeda. Its all a false flag. Little fat bald white men in Washington with some sinister Jews in Jerusalem are to blame. As for Hilary Clinton, she is a Mossad operative, so is Putin. Its as plain as can be.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Rue

[Michael Hardner]

Maybe you can explain then, how ISIS is able to set up a rogue state that earns hard currency from oil exports that go through Turkey?

I can't explain that but feel free to do so.

I will dismiss crackpot sources because I value my time. And any site that seriously reports Jade15 is a crackpot source in my view. My facebook feed has people saying the US government has set this up but it defies reason.

If the US and all of the neighbouring states were really fighting ISIS, would they be able to govern a large portion of Iraq and Syria from their capital - Raqqa? With all of the aerial surveillance and drones available, someone's letting it happen.

LIHOP I think is the term, or "let it happen on purpose". No. The US government controls the most powerful military in history but they can't do anything they like, especially without the political will to send troops into a ground war.

If the will was there for a mass invasion and colonization of the region, you can bet it could happen.

[dre]

I can't explain that but feel free to do so.

Its easy to explain... Nobody has even tried to defeat them, and nobody wants to try. Most of the military action so far has been centered around stopping them from spreading further.

All parties involved know that to really put an end to ISIL, is going to be extremely expensive. These people are not going to march out onto the battle braveheart style... they will melt back into the sunni cities and communities they control, and you would have to follow them in there and replace all the elements of civil administration by force with another administration, all the while fighting an ugly and prolonged urban insurgency. And even if you started to beat the insurgency, ISIL and its sypathizers would simply melt into the population and wait for you to leave just like this exact same group did in Iraq.

And even if you COULD kill every single member of ISIL it would accomplish nothing, because they are the political manifestation of a mainstream sunni desire to not be ruled by either Shia or foreigners.

What needs to happen is partition... The 20+ million sunnis in Iraq and Syria want no part of the Assad government or the Shia Iranian proxy that is the central government of Iraq. So you stop ISIL from taking any more terrority and allow them to have their backward little extremist theocracy, and you hope that eventually they become the type of Sunni extremist state that Saudi Arabia has with a well defined leadership that you can reason with, bribe, etc.

[eyeball]

So you stop ISIL from taking any more terrority and allow them to have their backward little extremist theocracy, and you hope that eventually they become the type of Sunni extremist state that Saudi Arabia has with a well defined leadership that you can reason with, bribe, etc.

Is that supposed to be the carrot on the stick? Oh joy.

Edited September 25, 2015 by eyeball

[dre]

Is that supposed to be the carrot on the stick? Oh joy.

I never said it was great... just that its the best outcome thats even remotely likely.

[eyeball]

It's an outcome that will just lead us in circles.