War Against ISIL

[bush_cheney2004]

As to "all" I guess I should use the term "both". PKK are Kurds as are the others (just Kurds) being targeted by Turkey.

My point is we have no idea who the good guys are or who the bad guys are. Perhaps you can help; Of the Turks, PKK, regular Kurds, Iraqis, Assad troops, Iranian ground troops, Syrian rebels, ISIS, Iraqi rebels - who are the good guys and who are the bad guys. Canadian airplanes are dropping bombs over there. Who should we be dropping bombs on?

Nothing new here...Chretien's Canada did the same thing with NATO in 1999 (Kosovo War).

[Big Guy]

To WestCoastRunner - I apologize for my generalizations. I report only what is available on media (I try to find objective ones) and accurate details are very difficult to glean. Also, when an ally quickly becomes an enemy (and vice versa) the coverage becomes even more blurred.

My point has always been that when we go to war, we better be very sure why we are going and against whom. My fear is that somebody in Canada is going to find out that one of our planes (or our allies) has just killed some members of his/her family and decide to retaliate while they are here. As soon as you drop that first bomb you accept the consequences of that action. As you have probably noticed by now I see these wars in the Middle East as civil wars which will eventually result in a redistribution of power. We let the genie out of the bottle and are now trying to shove it back in - it's not working nor will it ever work. Theses folks have to figure out for themselves just how they want to be organized. Once the smoke clears, then we can give assistance where requested.

Before Canada decided to get involved, there was no danger of terrorism here, no need for any anti-terrorism legislation, a Canadian could walk anywhere in Europe and most of the Middle East with our flag on their shirts and viewed as a rational and dependable nation of peace loving individuals. To-day, a Canadian flag gives you the same immunity from distain as the American flag in most parts of the world.

Thank you for taking the time to read my posts and comment. I will try to be more detailed in my posts if that information is available.

[Alexiso]

Why isn't EU house a castle?
That is only one of the numerous stories showing how easily young Europeans are being recruited into ISIS ranks http://www.vox.com/2015/5/26/8659347/isis-european-recruit

Brits were right when they formulated it that a house must be made a castle for you to stay safe there. Ours is not the case unfortunately. And I can't get the motives of the EU pols sitting tight amid this mess.
The young man in this story was forced into primitive robbery to make ISIS coffers more full. But he was doing this dirty job in some far away Arabic country while many "ISIS fighters" have to do far more disgusting things in their home countries, just here in the EU territories.

I happened to learn yet another story of a young French surgeon, rather an idealistic man lusting for justice. He converted into Islam to be then enlisted into ISIS. No, they didn't send him to Syria or Iraq, They left him in France and entrusted him with exempting organs from the bodies of the kidnapped kids. He did this monstrous job for a year or two and then something went wrong upstairs with him. Lucky guy, he was taken into special psychiatric center before ISIS thugs could kill him and it was there that some awful details became actually known.

Unfortunately such stories remain mostly hidden from wide public. It's beyond my understanding. I am sure they could serve a good lesson for many young Europeans, potential ISIS recruits.

[Rue]

1-To WestCoastRunner - I apologize for my generalizations. .

2-Before Canada decided to get involved, there was no danger of terrorism here, no need for any anti-terrorism legislation, a Canadian could walk anywhere in Europe and most of the Middle East with our flag on their shirts and viewed as a rational and dependable nation of peace loving individuals.

3- To-day, a Canadian flag gives you the same immunity from distain as the American flag in most parts of the world.

.

Right. 2 and 3 above continue your stereotypes and simplistic generalizations. Your other continued responses on other threads like the one above continue to repeat simplistc subjective pronouncements of what Canada should do.

You come on this board with an anti-American, anti-Israel, anti-Harper, pro Iran bias and repeats subjective genralizations and opinions to that effect in between some threads trying to bring attention to yourself as a victim when your words are challenged.

Now let's isolate the latest jof your latest simplistic generalizations:

"Before Canada decided to get involved, there was no danger of terrorism here, no need for any anti-terrorism legislation, a Canadian could walk anywhere in Europe and most of the Middle East with our flag on their shirts and viewed as a rational and dependable nation of peace loving individuals."

Talk about words that fart in the wind. What nonsense. Right. Canada would be just fine if it hid from terrorism. Terrorism only impacts on those who fight back. What a cowardly assertion-hide from and ignore terrorism, and poof it won't harm you.

Pathetic.

You use the exact words of appeasement Americans did to argue they should not enter WW2. Unlike you they learned from Pearl Harbour that bad things do happen to good people who sit with their hands wedged up their butts.

The US understands the term Jews do-NEVER AGAIN. For the Americans, it was Peal Harbour that taught what those words mean. For Jews it was the holocaust.

For Harper, it is the realization Canada is based on a history of giving a damn when terrorists and facists run unchecked in the world.

Go on hide under your bed then. The threat of terrorism came to Canada long before we got involved directly in Libya, Aghanistan and now with ISIL.

For you to not understand that is something else. The very internet you rely on for your world views has spread terrorism to every corner of the planet.

Your fellow Canadian citizens are buying into it. What world do you live in where you are unaware of the recruiting of terrorists in Canada and why. Right they only recruit because we hate Muslims. If we only loved Muslims none of this would happen? Say it. Spit out that sentiment because surely that is what you are inferring.

Do you really think terrorists only attack Jews or Israelis and not Canadians so if you just hide, they won't come?

Wow.

Yah I know, you have Israeli friends and they agree with you on this.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

To Alexiso - Welcome to the thread. The recruitment continues to work - why? Do you have any suggestions?

[Rue]

Bug Guy asks questions on how ISIL recruits. Hey that reminds me of one of their favourite tactics, coming on political forums and engaging in dialogue that encourages people to find out what ISIL is and portrays it in a trendy manner.

Oh but hey let's talk about ISIL recruiting techniques keeping in mind since my answer will quote sources and be more than a sentence, it will be too long for some:

source:

http://www.bustle.com/articles/40535-how-does-isis-recruit-exactly-its-techniques-are-ruthless-terrifying-and-efficient

summary of above::

"ISIS’ official recruitment videos, which, like any army recruitment video, promises the reward of having a purpose and playing an important role in something larger than yourself — smartly edited with slow-motion action shots. They also aim to address any concern a potential recruit might have.

These videos, which have all had high production quality, sometimes employing multiple cameras...

ISIS employs experienced media and marketing people, who have helped to spread and control its message....

the media arm also produces an online English-language magazine called Dabiq that publishes propagandist articles and reports aimed to glorify the Islamic State...

....the most powerful media tool ISIS has mastered is social media. Its sophisticated social media strategies on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, and Middle Eastern networks like Dawn have appealed to a generation that live most of their lives online. ISIS has even developed a Twitter app that sends information to the online community and allows ISIS to tweet from users’ personal accounts, thereby gaining the ability to spread its message in exponential proportions.

The app, along with hashtag campaigns that help the group’s propaganda trend on Twitter, are similar to the PR campaigns of a corporate company. In other words, they’re incredibly savvy.

ISIS has even opened a marriage center in Syria where women can register to become the wife of a jihadist. The terror group even gifts couples honeymoons after getting married, but they can only vacation within the caliphate in Iraq and Syria."

cont. next post

[Big Guy]

No, Big Guy asked Alexiso's his/her opinion. Big Guy is no longer interested in Rue's opinions.

[On Guard for Thee]

No, Big Guy asked Alexiso's his/her opinion. Big Guy is no longer interested in Rue's opinions.

You're not alone.

[Rue]

A typical ISIL recruit does not exist. The notion they are only disenchanted Muslims reacting to imperialism and American intervention is a crock. The attempt to portray terrorists as frustrated young Muslims forced into action is a crock.

What we see emerging of who is being recruited is not the above.

ISIL is using the internet to recruit youth-young people seeking purpose and adventure and not necessarily Muslim.

i.e.,http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/26/foreign-fighters-isil-fbi/26202741/

....A recent string of terror-related cases in the U.S., including the the arrests of six Minnesota men accused earlier this month of attempting to join the Islamic State, highlights an unprecedented marketing effort being waged by ISIL, U.S. law enforcement officials and terror analysts said.

It's a campaign that is finding resonance from urban metros to the American heartland....

Michael Leiter, former director of the U.S. Counterterrorism Center, said ISIL's recruiting strategy — its personal outreach efforts, application of slick YouTube productions and other social media — represents an unmatched level of sophistication demonstrated by terror organizations in the aftermath of 9/11....

i.e., http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/report-paints-surprising-portrait-of-isil-recruits

...report from the Centre for National Security in New York paints a surprisingly diverse portrait of the growing number of U.S. residents becoming foreign fighters for ISIL or plotting domestic attacks in its name...

...Since March 2014, a total of 56 people have been arrested and charged in U.S. federal court with supporting ISIL, and another three were killed by law enforcement authorities:
•15 per cent of those arrested (either foreign fighters or domestic plotters) are female
•14 per cent have a previous felony conviction
•81 per cent are American citizens
•4 out of 59 are of Middle Eastern descent
•Among the foreign fighters, 61 per cent are under 21.
•And of 17 domestic plots included in the analysis, 15 were attempted since March 2015.

...the role of social media in recruiting and radicalizing youths into ISIL extremists. Forty-five of 56 cases — or 80 per cent — involved online communications sympathetic to ISIL or ISIL recruitment efforts through social media

....Lorne Dawson, a professor of sociology at the University of Waterloo, is compiling similar data on Canadian cases of ISIL supporters, and says many of the conclusions drawn in the U.S. apply to Canada too, with regards to the presence of women, the diversity of backgrounds, the over-representation of recent converts to Islam (30 per cent of cases in the U.S.) and their age.

“Among foreign fighters, they are getting younger and younger — from their early 20s to teenagedom and in Canada we have numerous incidents of 15, 14, even 13-year olds,” said Dawson, who is also an expert with the Canadian Network for Research on Terrorism, Security and Society.

The recruiting is going on through the internet, twitter, facebook, the social media where the young live their lives through computer screens.

Here is a look at what they do when they recruit children:

source: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/isil-recruiting-children

....When ISIL extremists overran Yazidi towns and villages in northern Iraq last year, they butchered older men. Many of the women and girls they captured were given to ISIL loyalists as sex slaves. But dozens of young Yazidi boys like Yahya had a different fate: the group sought to re-educate them. They forced them to convert to Islam from their ancient faith and then tried to turn them into jihadi extremist fighters....

...The children each received a doll and a sword. Then they were lined up, more than 120 of them, and given their next lesson by their Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant instructors: Behead the doll.

A 14-year-old who was among the line of abducted boys from Iraq’s Yazidi religious minority said that at first, he couldn’t cut it right – he chopped once, twice, three times.

“Then they taught me how to hold the sword, and they told me how to hit. They told me it was the head of the infidels,” the boy, renamed Yahya by his ISIL captors, recalled in an interview last week with The Associated Press in northern Iraq, where he fled after escaping the ISIL training camp.

or In Australia, source: http://www.islamtimes.org/en/doc/news/467006/en/doc/news/474197/

Islam Times - ISIL recruiters have stepped up attempts to entice vulnerable youths in Australia to join the ranks of the Takfiri terror group mainly operating in Iraq and Syria, a British daily reports.

The recruiters infiltrate youth welfare services in Australia under the guise of youth workers in Bankstown, a suburb of the city of Sydney, and attempt to recruit young Australians to fight alongside the ISIL, the Daily Telegraph reported on Monday.

The ISIL-linked elements arrange to meet youngsters away from their families and security officials.

“They offer them (the youth) things — friendship, shelter, food, drugs, money — something they couldn’t get elsewhere, while convincing them their family, friends and accredited youth groups do not care,” said Sarkis Achmar, a former youth worker in Bankstown.

To make an example, Achmar named Abdullah Elmir who acted as a youth worker to lure vulnerable teenagers into joining ISIL in Bankstown three years ago.

or

here's a wonderful recruit technique:

source: http://blog.godreports.com/2014/09/isis-videos-sexual-assaults-of-male-recruits-for-blackmail/

In a documentary broadcast August 27th on the Kurdish station STERK TV, captured “Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant” (ISIL) elements say the group has been raping men in a ceremony it describes as “marriage” and recording this to use as blackmail and force them to join.

ISIL uses rape, including gang rape, as a tactic of fear to intimidate populations it seeks to control, according to an August 28th report by the Firat News Agency, a Kurdish agency based in Amsterdam.

The STERK TV documentary records the confessions of more than 20 ISIL elements who were captured by Kurdish fighters in Syria and includes horrific footage of ISIL’s crimes, Firat said.

“The ISIL elements admitted that what they called ‘marriage’ was in fact rape. They said that every new member of the group was raped. The footage of the rape would be used as blackmail in the event of the new recruit refusing to participate in actions,” it said.

In the documentary, ISIL fighter Abdul Kareem Ibrahim Bazo said he had been blindfolded and raped.

“About a fortnight later they came and said I had to join. I did not want to. But they had the footage. They threatened to show it to my family,” Firat reported him as saying.

Ferhan Salim Unuf Safen, 20, described how he had been abducted and raped by “six or seven” ISIL elements and was ashamed to explain the things they had done to him. “I fainted. When I came round they told me: ‘you are now with ISIL’,” he said.

Ahmed Hussain also described on camera how he had been abducted, drugged, tortured and gang raped by ISIL elements. “They ‘married’ me 15 times. Then they washed my head and put cologne on me. They told me no one could join ISIL without being married,” Hussain said.

Eyewitness testimonies indicate that such ISIL actions are not isolated incidents, said Egyptian human rights attorney Wahib Majdi

and

source: http://editorials.voa.gov/content/isil-preys-on-children/2874314.html

ISIL, also known as Daesh, has kidnapped nearly 500 hundred children to be used as suicide bombers and child soldiers. And it has threatened families, forcing them to give up their boys to fight with Daesh.

In 2015 alone, Daesh has trained more than 400 hundred children in Syria, calling them "Cubs of the Caliphate."

Children receive intense military and religious training during which they are forced to perform brutal acts and brainwashed to eliminate empathy for ISIL’s victims.

Currently some 600 children younger than age 13 are patrolling the streets of Mosul, the second largest city of Iraq.

and:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-navarro/isil-reminds-us-who-joins-terrorism_b_6641738.html

What Hoffer found, and what has often been overlooked by many sociologists and certainly by the general public, is that mass movements and especially terrorist organizations attract what we now call the psychopathic personality - in essence the predator described in Dangerous Personalities: An FBI Profiler Shows You How To Identify and Protect Yourself From Harmful People*. These are individuals who are perfectly content in causing great harm, who are perhaps even sadistic; and who are not bothered by their horrific actions.

Hoffer's observation really should not come as a great shock; after all, the Nazis had psychopaths in droves. I would go further and argue that terrorist organizations attract and even need psychopaths. After all, someone has to carry out the mayhem; the beheadings; the mass shootings; the setting of humans on fire--without care, even as the victims plead for their lives. They need people who are callous, who can hurt others effortlessly because they have no conscience and who can kill with reptilian indifference. They need people who are immune to the pleas of a grieving mother or a crying child as they shoot, stab, or behead. The average person doesn't do such things. These toxic movements need and attract psychopaths in quantity.

...The sordid ISIL propaganda of rage, hatred, and well-produced theatrical brutality is attracting thousands - perhaps as many as thirty thousand. They are not all psychopaths, to be sure, but enough are. Their cruelty will rub off on others,

[Rue]

No, Big Guy asked Alexiso's his/her opinion. Big Guy is no longer interested in Rue's opinions.

Rue doesn't care what Big Guy is interested in.

Oh that reminds me here is an interesting analysis of ISIL, an analysis no doubt Big Guy will call Rue's and dismiss, lol:

source:http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119395/isiss-three-types-fighters

..not everyone who joins ISIS is the type to trade protein shakes and doobies for scimitars and explosive belts. Patrick Skinner, a former CIA case officer now with the Soufan Group, estimates a total roster of 10,000 to 15,000 ISIS fighters, of whom a small fraction may be foreigners. By now, a loose taxonomy of ISIS supporters has emerged, and in it, we see how the group’s rapid expansion also makes it vulnerable.

...

type 1

.... men without significant military training—like most jihadis from Western or upper-class backgrounds—their main purpose is to create grotesque propaganda and, perhaps, to perform the low-skill role of blowing themselves up

type 2

..the second group is more pious. Call them the True Believers. They are drawn to the caliph himself, Abu Bakr al Baghdadi...Among the Europeans who have flocked to Raqqa, Syria—the seat of the Islamic State—one sees not just blood-spattered young men but families.Many of these people have come to Syria out of an inalterable sense of authentic religious obligation. According to The Independent, ISIS boasts a Tunisian with a doctorate in telecommunications to run its phone grid. It would seem safe to assume that a man immersed in this bureaucratic task does not also have a penchant for producing gore-porn.

type 3

...the third and final group—perhaps the least appalling but likely the largest and most important. Call them the Sunni Pragmatists. These include Iraqi tribal sheikhs, whose allegiance to ISIS originates not in a cultish death wish but in a desire to win security and well-being, and who seem to be using the Psychopaths and the True Believers as convenient allies...From ISIS, the Pragmatists get a way to punish Baghdad for its long neglect of Sunni regions....

I would like to add a 4th type-I call them ARM CHAIR GROUPIES but please its only an analysis, I would not want to stereotype or generalize....

Arm chair groupies can be found anywhere but with ISIL or at any scene of conflict or confrontation. Such supporters are people who stay in their bed-rooms or basements. Their connection with the real world is limited to short visits to buy food. They have no network of friends or relatives. They feel isolated and without purpose and if they do work, its in a meangless job where they go unnoticed and feel unappreciated. They want people to notice and listen to them but in their jobs and private life this does not happen.

They resent anyone they perceive as having something they do not, i.e., wealth, intelligence, a good job, success, friends.

They see this as unfair because in their minds those that have what they do not, can't possibly be entitled to it.

In this type's psyche, is the belief their opinions can not be wrong and that if someone disagrees its not because there is a possible second opinion or different opinion but because those who disagree are wrong as there is only one right.

They speak in absolutes. In every issue or conflict they need to see a right and wrong, a good and bad guy. If they can not they soon demand others agree with them as they dictate who is good and bad. They work in two colours, black and white. There are no shades of grey between the black and white.

So the value system is very rigid and it demands absolute conformity and strength comes from how many agree and will support their beliefs not the content of the beliefs.

Very rarely are the values they expressed based on science or logic-they are based on feelings and in particular a feeling of the world being an evil out of control and unfair place in need of their control. In their minds, even the most irrational of acts happens for a reason. There is no chaos but a conspiracy by their enemies to have created that chaos.

This group supports any group that makes them feel they are part of a greater whole provided that group makes them feel superior.

So they are attracted to groups they think have the same enemy.

Thus we get Canadians who do not identify as Canadian. They see their citizenship, the right to vote, the right to OHIP, their right to drive, have a job, automatic rights, not privileges.

They demand all the services of socialism while ridiculing the very government that provides the social services they demand.

Their is a disconnect-they detest their government but are dependent on it and they resent that.

They identify with ISIL or Iran or Syria which they identify as themselves-a misunderstood minority-an entity that is not treated as an equal.

Their reality consists of those internet sites that support their views. Politics, ISIL, Iran all become self reflection of their own image that can not be questioned.

These 4th type are will be used by terrorists remotely and indirectlyto spread their message ont he social media but never directly precisely because they are first on the list of people ISIL want to kill-people perceived by ISIL as weak, spineless, traitors to their own countries.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Rue

[Big Guy]

The war of our coalition against ISIS continues. Our airplanes continue to batter those really bad folks who are being protected by the folks we say they are killing. There have been recent meetings of members of the coalition discussing how we can finish this war.

By the way - ISIL is now a stable community of Sunni extremists supported by the Sunnis who live there. They have no air force and are just a ragged bunch of extremist clowns who run around waving guns and shouting idiotic slogans.

BUT - They are winning. They have control of the territory and this wonderful air military that we are throwing at them is making an imprint. Yes - we are killing some of these crazies - and killing a whole bunch of non-crazies who, live there. These are innocent civilians, minding their own business as our bombs wipe them out.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/11779993/Hundreds-of-civilians-killed-by-coalition-air-strikes-against-Isil-in-Syria-and-Iraq.html

What a horrendous video we saw of ISIS lining up 20 innocent civilians and cutting their heads off. Meanwhile, we have killed over 450 innocent civilians by going after those savages who killed those 20 innocent civilians.

Another few months and the coalition will have killed more innocent than the Israeli's did in Gaza during their last expedition.

I mean the end does justify the means - does it not?

I wonder what the fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters and various other relatives of those 450 innocent civilians that we have taken out as "acceptable collateral action" think of us? They might get a little pissed and try to get revenge - don't you think?

Any body still think that our Canadian military jets are doing any good in the Middle East?

We are being played like a fine, fine fiddle!

[eyeball]

By the way - ISIL is now a stable community of Sunni extremists supported by the Sunnis who live there. They have no air force and are just a ragged bunch of extremist clowns who run around waving guns and shouting idiotic slogans.

BUT - They are winning. They have control of the territory and this wonderful air military that we are throwing at them is making an imprint. Yes - we are killing some of these crazies - and killing a whole bunch of non-crazies who, live there. These are innocent civilians, minding their own business as our bombs wipe them out.

Something seems a little contradictory here...aren't the innocent civilians the same Sunnis that support ISIS? It seems that what we're really engaged in over there is maintaining the sanctity of the borders that were established whether the Sunnis like it or not a hundred years ago or more.

The fastest way to nip ISIS in the bud is let the Sunnis have their damned country and it won't be long until innocent civilians chafe under ISIS' rule and overthrow it.

I guess a new country is the more terrifying prospect....which is probably why we should get rid of all of them.

Edited August 8, 2015 by eyeball

[drakula]

guys have you heard that Pentagon failed early training programm? About 54 fighters for New Syrian Forces prepared by US specialists near turkish border were killed. lol. None of them have fought IS. CBS News told about it

[Argus]

The war of our coalition against ISIS continues. Our airplanes continue to batter those really bad folks who are being protected by the folks we say they are killing. There have been recent meetings of members of the coalition discussing how we can finish this war.

By the way - ISIL is now a stable community of Sunni extremists supported by the Sunnis who live there.

Here is the kind of think people like Big Guy applaud, and demand we ignore. An organized, government slavery operation where recruits are allowed to buy and sell young girls for sexual slavery. Never mind, it's not Jews doing it so who cares, right?

QADIYA, Iraq — In the moments before he raped the 12-year-old girl, the Islamic State fighter took the time to explain that what he was about to do was not a sin. Because the preteen girl practiced a religion other than Islam, the Quran not only gave him the right to rape her — it condoned and encouraged it, he insisted. He bound her hands and gagged her. Then he knelt beside the bed and prostrated himself in prayer before getting on top of her. When it was over, he knelt to pray again, bookending the rape with acts of religious devotion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/14/world/middleeast/isis-enshrines-a-theology-of-rape.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=photo-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Edited August 13, 2015 by Argus

[Argus]

Something seems a little contradictory here...aren't the innocent civilians the same Sunnis that support ISIS? It seems that what we're really engaged in over there is maintaining the sanctity of the borders that were established whether the Sunnis like it or not a hundred years ago or more.

The fastest way to nip ISIS in the bud is let the Sunnis have their damned country and it won't be long until innocent civilians chafe under ISIS' rule and overthrow it.

I guess a new country is the more terrifying prospect....which is probably why we should get rid of all of them.

I gather the fact that the majority of the people in Iraq are not Sunnis is not particularly relevant to you?

[Big Guy]

Looks like ISIS is preparing to make a move on Baghdad and is starting to soften the Shia areas of the city. The USA better get that nuclear treaty with Iran passed - they are going to need those Iranian ground troops to not only stay but increase in number.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/scores-dead-truck-bomb-rips-baghdad-market-iraq-150813045718318.html

I am looking forward to the time in which Canadian involvement in this civil war becomes a campaign issue.

[bush_cheney2004]

....I am looking forward to the time in which Canadian involvement in this civil war becomes a campaign issue.

Better hurry up and make it a campaign issue....the election is in October. What is taking so long ? Which party will not support engaging ISIL ?

[Big Guy]

So some USA officials have declared that they have found examples of ISIS using chemical weapons in Iraq and Syria;

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/15/us-reportedly-sees-possible-pattern-in-isis-chemical-weapons-attacks/

Looks like somebody trying to lay the groundwork for the deployment of ground troops from the West. I recall the American administration drawing a "line in the sand" on the use of chemical weapons in the past, a line in the sand that Assad wiped out with his own chemical assault.

Maybe if the Americans do send ground troops in that they will find those "weapons of mass destruction" that Saddam was hiding and was the excuse to invade Iraq.

[Argus]

So some USA officials have declared that they have found examples of ISIS using chemical weapons in Iraq and Syria;

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/08/15/us-reportedly-sees-possible-pattern-in-isis-chemical-weapons-attacks/

Looks like somebody trying to lay the groundwork for the deployment of ground troops from the West.

It's interesting how you immediately jump to that conclusion, rather than suspecting that, hmm, a group which executes groups of prisoners by dunking their cage into a river, or setting them on fire, a group which engages in genocide and mass rape, might actually be evil enough to use chemical weapons if they could...

But then, you've never accepted that ISIS is anything but a group of heroic freedom fighters...

[bush_cheney2004]

No worries...Canada wouldn't send in "ground troops" by itself even if ISIL attacked Ottawa with chemical weapons.

[Rue]

Bush we have no ground capability at this time and certainly not during an election. Since Afghanistan continued cuts have all but made a conventional ground force impossible. We have limited ability to carry out air bombings, naval patrols, advisory functions, use of our clandestine special commandos, and perhaps a small unit of 500 or so soldiers but that is about it. To much budget cuts and that is by a government that wants involvement world wide in such matters.

The NDP and Liberals want us out of any role Harper has us in. Like some of the noted sofa terrorist experts, they believe if we just go back and cover our ears, eyes and mouths, ISIS magically will cease being a problem and so will Iran. Poof bad things only happen because we insist on travelling overseas with guns and bombs. Never mind the idiots who leave this country to go fight for ISIL or the connection to idiots in this country who want to plan terrorist attacks. No no no. That's just not true. Everything is fine if you just go back home and stay there.

The sad thing is Bush they are not learning history in school. They think their ideas of appeasement and digging a hole in the sand and isolationism are new and unique.

If and it looks probable unless things turn around, Harper is out, we will put in a government that is isiolationist and naïve as hell made up of daffodil eaters. Yum yum.

Our problem is Harper is emersed himself after so many years in office of corruption scandals he may not shake and people who would otherwise vote for his foreign policy may not giving the NDP their vote hoping to clean up the corruption.

The irony is the head of the NDP is a corrupt little bugger who was an Environment Minister in a corrupt provincial government and engaged in his own spending violations and lies.

Then again we have a hair dresser running for office A man with wonderful hair style seeking to send winter coats to Syria and believes he can just magically promise 2 billion in education spending to our native peoples because he thinks they are all stupid and can be paid off.

Ah politics. Actually we had a fairly decent candidate Marc Garneau a former astronaut but.the LIberals didn't find his hair fluffy enough.

Harper is not a bad person but years in office and the power it brings corrupted his network of power and he just can't get past a problem of trust right now.

Trudeau's ME advisor is a rabid anti-Semite running in Mississauga, Ontario trying to pander to the highest Palestinian population outside the ME in his riding to get voted in. They did not last time rejecting his extremism and assuming they were all extremist like him. Many of our Palestinian Canadians are peace loving, middle of the roaders and simply want peace with Israel and reject terrorism and anti Western b.s. and came here to get away from Muslim extremism. I have been involved with many. They resent being pandered to.

Does Harper pander to Ukrainians and Jews as some accuse him of because he is pro Israel and pro Ukraine independence from Russia, I do not think so. I think he genuine in his beliefs and wants a state for Palestinians, just no terrorism and does not practice the b.s. you see Big Guy would hve Canada engage in where we select terrorist financing anti American regimes as our allies and piss on Israel and the US.

I still believe a sober Republican will run against Clinton and win. I still believe Trump will flash out with a self destructive scandal but he symbolizes a strong force of American disgust with the last eight years of its President apologizing for being American.

Trump symbolizes the pride and ego missing in American politics. No one likes his idiocy but the pride and ego he blows out is a warning many Americans want their politicians regain their pride in kicking the world's terrorists' asses and being no.1.

I believe Americans will hold Clinton and Obama responsible for both ISIL and the fiasco appeasement of Iran and the monumental failures in Ukraine and Libya-this will play heavily in fall debates once leaders are known and sink Clinton. Biden won't run. It woul be hilarious if he did. It would mean Clinton lost much of her supposed IOU of support from Obama. Then again he is a lying sob.

Edited August 15, 2015 by Rue

[eyeball]

I gather the fact that the majority of the people in Iraq are not Sunnis is not particularly relevant to you?

No, why should it? Did you happen to notice this is a regional conflict?

[Big Guy]

The topic of terrorism has been discussed in this thread so I think the following belongs here. More and more people around the world are beginning to question the term "terrorist" that governments now tend to apply to so many groups that the term has lost its relevance.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/headtohead/2014/02/terrorists-freedom-fighters-2014212111746740708.html

Those specifically interested in the topic may find this 45 minute discussion interesting in that it revolves around the IRA.

[Argus]

The topic of terrorism has been discussed in this thread so I think the following belongs here. More and more people around the world are beginning to question the term "terrorist" that governments now tend to apply to so many groups that the term has lost its relevance.

So setting off suicide bombs in markets and mosques isn't terrorism now? Is there any possible act of violence and rape ISIS could commit which would cause you to reject your support of this group?

[Big Guy]

ISIS has just released pictures of their destruction of those 2,000 year old temple ruins of Palmyra. The usual people are outraged and will probably call for revenge, more bombings and more attacks. We even have a few of those easily manipulated people on this board.

The wiser folks ask themselves, why does ISIS send out those videotapes of beheadings, assassinations and bombings of sacred shrines? What good does it do them to get the West all excited, angry and more aggressive?

Maybe to send more bombers, therefore creating more collateral damage, more displaced people, more millions of displaced migrants flooding other countries, more chaos, more disruption in Europe, more instability in the West, more disgruntled people streaming to join ISIS?

We walked into the trap of Afghanistan following the "little girls going to school" empty rhetoric and perhaps we will escalate the faulty foreign policies that got us involved in the first place. Meanwhile, many of us have learned nothing. I see that some of the simpler minds here and elsewhere equate any questioning of the faulty Western policy in the Middle East with support for the enemy. That is not surprising. Simple minds seek simple solutions. Fortunately, those who take the time to consider and analyse understand what the enemy is doing and seek effective counter actions. I will leave the simpler minds to drive-by invectives and the silliness that comes with lack of understanding.

We are being played like a fine fiddle.