Michael Hardner Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28354856 http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/malaysian-plane-mh17-reportedly-shot-down-near-ukraine-russia-border-1.2709881 A Malaysian passenger airliner with 295 people on board was shot down near the border of Ukraine and Russian, according to a number of reports. The airliner was shot down at an altitude of 10 kilometres above eastern Ukraine, the Ukrainian bureau of the Russian-based news agency Interfax reported, citing an agency industry source. The obvious impact is on Russian-European relations, the first thing to come to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Still waiting confirmation this was a shoot down scenario. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Why would anyone fly through such obviously dangerous airspace? I mean, it's like deliberately flying into a hurricane or something. Edited July 17, 2014 by eyeball Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Shot down by a Russian rocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Shot down by a Russian rocket. Allegedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why would anyone fly through such obviously dangerous airspace? I mean, it's like deliberately flying into a hurricane or something. True, I wouldn't fly through the area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Malaysian Airlines again? Next week go buy some stock in Malaysian Airlines, that stock can only go up from this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 At least it wasn't a British Airways flight shot down. Then we'd be hearing some war drums thumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Why would anyone fly through such obviously dangerous airspace? I mean, it's like deliberately flying into a hurricane or something.I don't think any reasonable person could have anticipated that: 1) The rebels had rockets that could target a plane at 10000m 2) That they would be willing to use them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Would seem quite random if Russian's in Ukraine did this. The jet was at cruising altitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bush_cheney2004 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 It has happened before.....the U.S.S. Vincennes shot down an Iranian airliner in 1988....the Soviets famously and unapologetically shot down Korean Airlines Flight 007. Different circumstances here if that's what happened, but same result for an unarmed airliner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If it turns out to be Russians instead of the Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine expect the Russians cowardly back away and deny. Wouldn't be the first time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimG Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) If it turns out to be Russians instead of the Russian-backed rebels in Ukraine expect the Russians cowardly back away and deny. Wouldn't be the first time.It makes no difference who pulled the trigger - it was the Russians that gave the rebels missiles capable of downing an aircraft at 10000m. Why? It is not as if that tech was needed in the fight against Ukraine. Edited July 17, 2014 by TimG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On Guard for Thee Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 There have been a number of military ac shot down in this area recently so it was, or should have been, well known that the BUK system was in use. The FAA had already determined that US carriers were to avoid the area. And I suspect it will make a HUGE difference who pulled the trigger, especially if it turns out there were 23 Americans on board as has been reported. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argus Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) An hour before news of the crash, Igor Strelkov reportedly wrote on Vkontakte, a popular Russian social media website, “In the district of Torez an An-26 was just shot down. It crashed somewhere near the Progress mine. We warned them not to fly in our skies.” The message was sent about 30 minutes after the plane is believed to have gone down. Strelkov, 43, is a Russian citizen from Moscow who is now in command of the Donbass People’s Militia and has hero status among insurgency supporters. He was reportedly trained by Russia’s military intelligence unit and both Ukraine and the West have claimed he is an active Russian agent. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/17/malaysian-airlines-mh17-reported-crashed-just-after-rebel-leader-boasted-of-shooting-down-plane-we-warned-them-not-to-fly-in-our-skies/ Edited July 17, 2014 by Argus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) The Americans are also saying it was shot down. And apparently they've been shooting down several aircraft's in the last few days. Edited July 17, 2014 by Boges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 The Ukrainian air-space was shut for up to 6500m but not above that as it was thought that the rebels wouldn't have had missiles capable of reaching over that altitude. The propaganda-mill is currently on overdrive as to explain what has happened and why. Apparently it was an error but you don't get away with errors like this one by saying: oops,I'm sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guy Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 If it was shot down is had to be an accidental targeting. The only political motivation could be that one side shoots it down and makes it look like the other side did it. I do not think either side has the technology to do that. There is no advantage in taking credit for killing 300 people. If it was shot down, it was either some trigger happy rebel with a new toy or some garbled command from Kiev to Ukrainian troops. Either way, this does nothing to tone down the rhetoric or make either side look better. All over the world we are having "collateral damage" of innocent civilians and it is becoming more and more acceptable as a "price" to do business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rue Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) Why would anyone fly through such obviously dangerous airspace? I mean, it's like deliberately flying into a hurricane or something. Apparently and again I am just reading it on the sites like you, it was cheaper to fly over the Ukraine to save on gas from shorter distance. The International Aviation Organization said the flight path/rotue was safe. That said, preliminary reports say it was a ground to air missile that took it out. So the Russians seem to be intent on intimating it was a Ukraine armed forces missile. Its more likely some pro Russian rebel got their hands on a ground to air missile they captured from Ukrainian forces. In any event it happens at a time when Israel goes in on the ground in Gaza. The world is tense at the moment. There were Dutch and Americans on the flight as well as 1 Canadian and a Malaysian. Let's hope this does not trigger anything. Edited July 17, 2014 by Rue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-TSS- Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Apparently it was much more expensive and time-consuming for the airliner to use a safer but longer route to the destination. It is nice to know that these airliners have got their priorities straight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 Apparently it was much more expensive and time-consuming for the airliner to use a safer but longer route to the destination. It is nice to know that these airliners have got their priorities straight. There's nothing wrong with the flight path of this passenger jet. Stop blaming the victims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek 2.0 Posted July 17, 2014 Report Share Posted July 17, 2014 It makes no difference who pulled the trigger - it was the Russians that gave the rebels missiles capable of downing an aircraft at 10000m. Why? It is not as if that tech was needed in the fight against Ukraine. That is no way certain……..The Ukrainian military also operated the same system…..The rebels could have obtained them from them, stolen them from Ukrainian arsenal or liberated them from one of the various army units that surrendered or switched sides.......... As to need, the Ukrainians have an air force, and have been using it to bomb rebel positions……..The proliferation of SAMs is hardly news……their use by groups like the Mujahideen, or even the threat of their use by groups, like the PIRA, is a deterrent………Going from previous groups armed with MANPADS to more complex systems is only a natural progression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilber Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 Questionable routing considering what is going on in that country. Just shows what can happen when the kiddies get hold of hight tech weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonlight Graham Posted July 18, 2014 Report Share Posted July 18, 2014 How much does it change things as far as Canada is concerned that 1 Canadians was reportedly on the plane that was shot down? I think it should make our government quite PO'd, and it needs to react. But react how? Other countries with victims will be in a similar situation. This changes the game in terms of how other countries are involved in this conflict. Having an international flight shot down is an attack on international security (which includes us), and the security of Canadians traveling abroad. Any one of us could have been on that plane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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