This week in Islam

[Goddess]

19 hours ago, dialamah said:

I do not believe terrorism is supported by any sect of Islam, other than the terror groups themselves. 

What you believe doesn't matter.  It's the reality of what is happening that matters.

The woman who blew up the pizzeria in Jerusalem (Ahlam Tamimi), killing mostly women and children - she was REWARDED by the keepers of Islam's holiest sites with a trip on a private jet to Mecca, along with other convicted terrorists.

If your "belief" was correct - then there should have been outrage both for the fact that she was a terrorist and the reward she got from Islam for the bombing and killing.

But there was no outrage from Muslims for either of those things.  Not. One. Peep.  She was celebrated.  She was applauded.  She was rewarded.

This incident was a moment of truth test for Islam.  And it failed.  And so does your "belief".

[DogOnPorch]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Or maybe, don't wage war on children.

 

You Arab pals started the conflict after following one of Hitler's SS men's call to war.

The "Palestinian Cause"...a pipe dream of a Nazi on the run from the Allied hangman.

This is what you support when you support the PLO/PLA/Hamas.

[Marocc]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Ok, then how would Muslims describe the process of study and analysis of the Quran and hadiths that results in these different sects within Islam?  

Sunni and Shia.  They fight each other, both convinced they are correct.

Where is it about faith rather than fashion?

In Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan and UAE for instance.

Sunni and Shia didn't separate because of interpretation. They separated when Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) died because the Shias did not accept Abu Bakr as a caliph. They fight now for political reasons.

4 hours ago, scribblet said:

Well, sadly the Palestinians do kill their own children, especially when they are trying to bomb Israeli children and when building tunnels so they can get into Israel and kill more Jews including children. 

The Institute for Palestine Studies published a detailed report on Gaza’s Tunnel Phenomenon in the summer of 2012. It reported that tunnel construction in Gaza has resulted in a large number of child deaths.

“At least 160 children have been killed in the tunnels, according to Hamas officials”

They don't need to "go" to Israel. Israel comes to them.

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

Bingo.

It's not a "choice" then, is it.

Islam is a choice.

3 hours ago, DogOnPorch said:

The Arabs started the Arab-Israeli War.

Don't start wars then lose. Ask Germany as to why.

When did they start it?

[Marocc]

55 minutes ago, Goddess said:

What you believe doesn't matter.  It's the reality of what is happening that matters.

The woman who blew up the pizzeria in Jerusalem (Ahlam Tamimi), killing mostly women and children - she was REWARDED by the keepers of Islam's holiest sites with a trip on a private jet to Mecca, along with other convicted terrorists.

If your "belief" was correct - then there should have been outrage both for the fact that she was a terrorist and the reward she got from Islam for the bombing and killing.

But there was no outrage from Muslims for either of those things.  Not. One. Peep.  She was celebrated.  She was applauded.  She was rewarded.

This incident was a moment of truth test for Islam.  And it failed.  And so does your "belief".

This kind of BS asks for a few links.

[DogOnPorch]

7 minutes ago, Marocc said:

 

When did they start it?

Why...

You could ask this prick...or his nephew Yasser Arafat. But those pieces of shit are dead.

So I'd say that it was due to Islamic Jew-hatred as dictated in the Quran/Hadiths...as per usual.

When...

As soon as the Mufti came to power.

Edited July 8, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[dialamah]

51 minutes ago, Goddess said:

What you believe doesn't matter.  It's the reality of what is happening that matters.

The woman who blew up the pizzeria in Jerusalem (Ahlam Tamimi), killing mostly women and children - she was REWARDED by the keepers of Islam's holiest sites with a trip on a private jet to Mecca, along with other convicted terrorists.

If your "belief" was correct - then there should have been outrage both for the fact that she was a terrorist and the reward she got from Islam for the bombing and killing.

But there was no outrage from Muslims for either of those things.  Not. One. Peep.  She was celebrated.  She was applauded.  She was rewarded.

This incident was a moment of truth test for Islam.  And it failed.  And so does your "belief".

Hadn't heard of her before, so I looked her up.  She is at war with Isreal, which explains her target.  I condemn her actions of course.

I found nothing confirming your claim that she was flown to Mecca as a reward.  I saw nothing confirming your claim that not a single Muslim objected to either the attack or her release. I didn't look on Anti-Islamic sites, though, so that could be why.

In the meantime;

"An Israeli general has confirmed that when snipers stationed along Israel’s boundary with Gaza shoot at children, they are doing so deliberately, under clear and specific orders."

Shooting unarmed children under direct orders.  How does this not outrage Jews and Westerners alike?  But I can find no evidence of Jews condemning this, or even of the West condemning it.   

To use your logic with the crimes of Muslims, based on this incident alone, it's clear that Jews and Westerners everywhere support the deliberate killing of children. /s

  

[DogOnPorch]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

Hadn't heard of her before, so I looked her up.  She is at war with Isreal, which explains her target.  I condemn her actions of course.

I found nothing confirming your claim that she was flown to Mecca as a reward.  I saw nothing confirming your claim that not a single Muslim objected to either the attack or her release. I didn't look on Anti-Islamic sites, though, so that could be why.

In the meantime;

"An Israeli general has confirmed that when snipers stationed along Israel’s boundary with Gaza shoot at children, they are doing so deliberately, under clear and specific orders."

Shooting unarmed children under direct orders.  How does this not outrage Jews and Westerners alike?  But I can find no evidence of Jews condemning this, or even of the West condemning it.   

To use your logic with the crimes of Muslims, based on this incident alone, it's clear that Jews and Westerners everywhere support the deliberate killing of children. /s

  

 

Arabs started the war. Don't start wars and then LOSE. Bad mistake.

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, Marocc said:

1.  In Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan and UAE for instance.

2.  Sunni and Shia didn't separate because of interpretation. They separated when Muhammad (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) died because the Shias did not accept Abu Bakr as a caliph. They fight now for political reasons.

1.  Do those places offer a real choice to women to wear the hijab as part of their devotion to Islam or Allah?  Or do they wear modest dress because they have to as a result of laws or extreme social pressure?  

2.  So then do Sunni and Shia practice Islam identically, and are equally "correct"?

[Marocc]

5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Why...

You could ask this prick...or his nephew Yasser Arafat. But those pieces of shit are dead.

So I'd say that it was due to Islamic Jew-hatred as dictated in the Quran/Hadiths...as per usual.

When...

As soon as the Mufti came to power.

When was that? I'm asking you because you know so much and you know there's all kind of opinions around.

[dialamah]

3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Arabs started the war. Don't start wars and then LOSE. Bad mistake.

So you support the shooting of unarmed children.

 

[Marocc]

1 minute ago, dialamah said:

1.  Do those places offer a real choice to women to wear the hijab as part of their devotion to Islam or Allah?  Or do they wear modest dress because they have to as a result of laws or extreme social pressure?  

2.  So then do Sunni and Shia practice Islam identically, and are equally "correct"?

Depends who you ask. Not all of them have law for it.

No, they are different. No, the Shias are wrong on certain things.

[DogOnPorch]

3 minutes ago, Marocc said:

When was that? I'm asking you because you know so much and you know there's all kind of opinions around.

 

Haj Amin al-Husseini's first act upon getting the job of Grand Mufti was to stage the Nebi Musa Pogrom of 1920. He started the 1948 War which has never really stopped since.

 

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

So you support the shooting of unarmed children.

 

 

What are your Hamas friends doing hiding behind children again? Using them as shields? Typical...

Edited July 8, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[Goddess]

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I found nothing confirming your claim that she was flown to Mecca as a reward. 

She was part of this group of terrorists who were rewarded with the trip.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/11/15/saudi-king-offers-all-expenses-paid-trip-to-hajj-for-released-palestinian-terrorists

Quote

I saw nothing confirming your claim that not a single Muslim objected to either the attack or her release.

Quote

 

In an interview which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on 12 July 2012 (as translated by MEMRI), Tamimi described the reaction of other Palestinians immediately after the bombing:

Afterwards, when I took the bus, the Palestinians around Damascus Gate [in Jerusalem] were all smiling. You could sense that everybody was happy. When I got on the bus, nobody knew that it was me who had led [the suicide bomber to the target]... I was feeling quite strange, because I had left [the bomber] 'Izz Al-Din behind, but inside the bus, they were all congratulating one another. They didn't even know one another, yet they were exchanging greetings...While I was sitting on the bus, the driver turned on the radio. But first, let me tell you about the gradual rise in the number of casualties. While I was on the bus and everybody was congratulating one another...^[8]

After hearing an initial report that "three people were killed" in the bombing, Tamimi stated:

I admit that I was a bit disappointed, because I had hoped for a larger toll. Yet when they said "three dead," I said: 'Allah be praised'...Two minutes later, they said on the radio that the number had increased to five. I wanted to hide my smile, but I just couldn't. Allah be praised, it was great. As the number of dead kept increasing, the passengers were applauding.^[8]

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahlam_Tamimi

There is more evidence that Muslims applauded her than that they objected.

But feel free to sugar-coat, deny, minimize and excuse all of the above.  We all know you will.

To you - any website that tells these stories is ANTI-ISLAMIC - that's pretty telling about your pro-Islam agenda.  You just admitted that if it doesn't come from a PRO-ISLAMIC website, you will discount and deny anything Muslims do.

LOL......YOU expect to see this information on a PRO-ISLAMIC website????  You're even more of an idiot than you seem to be, if you think any pro-Islamic website is going to tell these stories.  Of course they're not going to tell these stories. 

Since words and actions matter so much to you (especially white people's words and actions) - what do you think this situation tells the Muslim world about Islam's stand on terrorism?  That it's wrong for Muslims to engage in terrorism and kill innocents?  Or that they will be rewarded for terrorism?

[QuebecOverCanada]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Or maybe, don't wage war on children.

Why do Palestinians hate their children so much (and their wives too), that they put them at the front lines, and even use them for committing terrorist acts and that Hamas has been condemned repeatedly for having child soldiers?

By the way, a 15-year-old shooting a mortar on a border town, is not a child. I'd shoot him without remorse and hesitation. I would not have a PTSD whatsoever.

[QuebecOverCanada]

7 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

Since words and actions matter so much to you (especially white people's words and actions) - what do you think this situation tells the Muslim world about Islam's stand on terrorism?  That it's wrong for Muslims to engage in terrorism and kill innocents?  Or that they will be rewarded for terrorism?

I have a better one. 

If one dares to leave islam in the vast majority Muslim countries, he gets killed for apostasy.  People who do the killings are regular citizens. Would an Islamic terrorist do it too  ?

[dialamah]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

She was part of this group of terrorists who were rewarded with the trip.

https://www.theblaze.com/news/2011/11/15/saudi-king-offers-all-expenses-paid-trip-to-hajj-for-released-palestinian-terrorists

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahlam_Tamimi

There is more evidence that Muslims applauded her than that they objected.

 

Yes, Palestinians applauded her.  I would expect nothing less, given the situation, but you said "no  Muslims" condemned her.  Now you've changed it to "more evidence that they applauded than objected".  

24 minutes ago, Goddess said:

But feel free to sugar-coat, deny, minimize and excuse all of the above.  We all know you will.

I did not deny, minimize, sugar-coat or excuse her actions. I even said I condemned it.  

I did not deny, excuse, sugar-coat or minimize how the Islamic world responded to her release.  I merely questioned your statement that "there was no outrage from Muslims for either of those things.  Not. One. Peep."  

38 minutes ago, Goddess said:

To you - any website that tells these stories is ANTI-ISLAMIC - that's pretty telling about your pro-Islam agenda.  You just admitted that if it doesn't come from a PRO-ISLAMIC website, you will discount and deny anything Muslims do.

Not at all.   I reject "pro-Islam" sites as readily as anti-Islam sites for actual "news", though they can be useful regarding opinions and to start researching click-bait stories.   Even a slightly left-bias source like Vice News, I corroborate before accepting a story as accurate.  

43 minutes ago, Goddess said:

what do you think this situation tells the Muslim world about Islam's stand on terrorism?  That it's wrong for Muslims to engage in terrorism and kill innocents?  Or that they will be rewarded for terrorism?

The link did not work for me, so can't say.

[Goddess]

16 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Yes, Palestinians applauded her.  I would expect nothing less, given the situation, but you said "no  Muslims" condemned her.  Now you've changed it to "more evidence that they applauded than objected". 

Yes, exactly - Palestinians.  You said you did not believe any Muslim sect endorses terrorism except for actual terrorist groups.  You've also read the Pew research that shows a disturbing number of Muslims living in the West who agree or partially agree with terrorism - so your belief that only terrorists endorse terrorism is based on your own delusions.  There are Muslims who endorse terrorism in every sect of Islam, possibly the Ahmadiyya would be the exception, and they are hated by the rest of Islam.

Quote

I merely questioned your statement that "there was no outrage from Muslims for either of those things.  Not. One. Peep."  

And I showed you that she was applauded and celebrated and rewarded by her fellow Muslims.  If she was not, then feel free to prove otherwise.  But there is no outrage about her release or her reward coming from Muslims in general.  In general, she is a hero to Muslims.

Quote

The link did not work for me, so can't say.

There was no link.  I asked you - because you are so rabid about censoring what is discussed about Islam and Muslim behaviour - what message you think this situation sent to the Muslim world.  You know, since words and actions are so important to you and you believe white people are all lemmings who follow any kind of hate speech with no thought......what is the message given here to Muslims?  Do you think they will infer that terrorism is wrong to engage in or that it is okay with Islam to engage in terrorism?

Or are words and actions suddenly NOT so important when it comes to Muslims?

Edited July 8, 2019 by Goddess

[Marocc]

Can anyone guess what makes a 20-year-old smile the more the more children she's killed?

May 1st 2019

"New legislation proposed by Rep. Betty McCollum, a Minnesota Democrat, would ban Israel from using any of the billions of dollars in military assistance it receives from the United States every year to pay for the detention, interrogation, or torture of Palestinian children living under Israeli military occupation in the West Bank.

Israel’s military typically arrests and prosecutes 500 to 700 Palestinian children between the ages of 12 and 17 each year, subjecting them to coercive interrogation, physical violence, and trials in military courts that lack basic guarantees of due process.

“Israel’s system of military juvenile detention is state-sponsored child abuse designed to intimidate and terrorize Palestinian children and their families,” McCollum said in a statement on Wednesday. “It must be condemned, but it is equally outrageous that U.S. tax dollars in the form of military aid to Israel are permitted to sustain what is clearly a gross human rights violation against children.”

The bill notes that Human Rights Watch reported in 2018 that Israel’s security forces detained Palestinian children “often using unnecessary force, questioned them without a family member present, and made them sign confessions in Hebrew, which most did not understand.” Such detentions, the same group discovered in 2015, “included the use of chokeholds, beatings, and coercive interrogation on children between the ages of 11 and 15 years.”

As the text of McCollum’s bill explains, these abuses are well-known to the United States government. The findings section of the bill notes that the State Department’s 2013 human rights report pointed to evidence “that Israeli security services continued to abuse, and in some cases torture minors, frequently arrested on suspicion of stone-throwing, in order to coerce confessions. The torture tactics used included threats, intimidation, long-term handcuffing, beatings, and solitary confinement.”

Researchers working for another NGO, Defense for Children International Palestine, collected affidavits from 739 Palestinian children who were detained in the West Bank between 2013 and 2018. DCIP found that 73 percent of the children had endured physical violence, 86 percent were blindfolded, 96 percent were interrogated without having a parent or family member present, 20 percent were subjected to stress positions by interrogators, and 49 percent were detained from their homes in the middle of the night. More than 120 of the children had been held in isolation for interrogation purposes for an average of 13 days before any charges were filed."

https://theintercept.com/2019/05/01/betty-mccollum-israel-palestine-children-bill/

https://youtu.be/np3WRfGUIx0

Edited July 8, 2019 by Marocc

[Marocc]

19 minutes ago, Goddess said:

Yes, exactly - Palestinians.  You said you did not believe any Muslim sect endorses terrorism except for actual terrorist groups. 

I suspect if you were born to live like they do you'd be "pro terrorism" pretty soon too.

Not that I endorse such acts as bombings, especially when it's not even in the conflict zone - I don't. But most of the things these people do - like throwing those terrifying stones - is pretty understandable.

They don't have the means to live a good life or build a good society. Israel can control even their access to water. Not to mention destroying their homes and shooting their family members.

Those blinded by Israel’s hard-core propaganda think the deaths of Palestinians are special cases, but they're not. What Israelis are committing and have been committing for years with the west looking on, is a massacre.

[dialamah]

58 minutes ago, Goddess said:

There was no link.  I asked you - because you are so rabid about censoring what is discussed about Islam and Muslim behaviour - 

Sorry, thought there was supposed to be a link.

Anyway, you take a single decades-old event and try to use it to claim Muslims generally support terrorism, and celebrate the killing of innocent women and children.  In the meantime you dismiss things like this:  70 Muslim Clerics from 3 Islamic countries condemn terrorism.

And notice I have twice condemned Tamimi for her killing of children.  You are silent on Isreal's killing of children.  Should I now conclude you applaud such killings?

[Marocc]

5 hours ago, dialamah said:

Here's an article purporting to explain the history of covering for Muslim women.  Basically it says that Muhammed borrowed it from a custom followed by Byzantine Christians and instituted it for only his wives only, after poor behavior by some of his followers.  Do you think this is a reasonably accurate explanation of the origins of the hijab?

Here is another article, saying that the command for women to cover is explicit in the Quran.  Would you agree this is accurate?  This is also an interesting article in that it lays out requirements for male modesty as well, yet it is women's attire that is under scrutiny in some Islamic countries.  

A third article, about the controversy of a thesis by Sheikh Mustapha Mohamed Rashed of Al Azhar University that disputed the claim of hijab being mandatory.  Do you think this thesis reflects the teaching of Islam and the Quran?

No it's not accurate. However, Christians, Jews and Muslims all worship the same God so naturally there are certain identical commandment found. The old testament also tells women to cover their hair (or shave it off - preferably cover) Before Islam the women in Arabia were already wearing scarves on top of their heads, but they weren't tied around them.

Yes, it's accurate. Men's awrah is from the navel down to the knees so it's pretty easy to cover. However, in many places in the Middle East for one it is often a definite social expectation a man covers his body appropriately. Long sleeves are encouraged and a lot of men even wear "Islamic" clothing like thobe and izar.

Due largely to biology the most important part of a woman's hijab is covering and the most important part of a man's hijab is "lowering their gaze".

That is false.

[scribblet]

Palestinians are paid to kill Jews  via the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews

https://www.dailysignal.com/2014/08/21/paycheck-terrorism-5300-suicide-attack/

did the U.N. condemn the use of children as human shields - my guess is not.   https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-demands-un-condemn-hamass-use-of-children-civilians-as-human-shields/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-demands-un-condemn-hamass-use-of-children-civilians-as-human-shields/

[eyeball]

19 hours ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks,

Please avoid thread drift.

[Goddess]

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

Sorry, thought there was supposed to be a link.

Anyway, you take a single decades-old event and try to use it to claim Muslims generally support terrorism, and celebrate the killing of innocent women and children.  In the meantime you dismiss things like this:  70 Muslim Clerics from 3 Islamic countries condemn terrorism.

And notice I have twice condemned Tamimi for her killing of children. 

No, Try to pay attention and quit moving the goalposts.  I took this incident and the Pew research to debunk your claim that there are no sects in Islam that endorse terrorism except for actual terrorist organizations.

70 clerics from 3 Islamic nations, that's wonderful.  

Quote

You are silent on Isreal's killing of children.  Should I now conclude you applaud such killings?

You can conclude whatever your pro-Islam, deluded brain wants to conclude.

This thread is about Islam, not the Palestine situation. Only you - with your "white people hating, Islam is fabulous, don't anyone dare say anything bad about my favourite people and religion""  brain would conclude that I applaud killing children, when I'm staying on topic, while you and the other Muslim detract from the conversation by bringing up Israel when there's about 100 threads on Israel/Palestine.

You're quite the looney.

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

  20 hours ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks,

Please avoid thread drift.

 

[Marocc]

1 minute ago, Goddess said:

 to debunk your claim that there are no sects in Islam that endorse terrorism except for actual terrorist organizations.

There is no sect that endorses terrorism.