This week in Islam

[Michael Hardner]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

So you've been saying forever.  BTW what's your solution for doing that again?

Dehumanize them.  Demand they reform their religion, but deny any efforts to do so and claim they're incapable.

Discount violence and abuse against them.

That's what is happening here.

[GostHacked]

On 7/5/2019 at 1:02 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Oh, I've read your religions guidebook on hate...aka The Quran. 

Jews are cursed to be as apes and pigs.

Say, "Shall I inform you of [what is] worse than that as penalty from Allah ? [It is that of] those whom Allah has cursed and with whom He became angry and made of them apes and pigs and slaves of Taghut. Those are worse in position and further astray from the sound way."

https://quran.com/5/60/

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/israel-s-education-minister-says-intermarriage-is-like-a-second-holocaust-1.7486330

Quote

Israel's education minister has likened intermarriage among diaspora Jews, and particularly North American Jews, to the Holocaust in a recent cabinet meeting. A spokesman for Education Minister Rafi Peretz confirmed Tuesday that Peretz said that "assimilation is like a second Holocaust."
 
Peretz, of the Union of Right-Wing Parties, made the statement, first reported by Barak Ravid of Israel's Channel 13 News, during a session on the state of world Jewry, where ministers discussed the global threat of anti-Semitism and other issues concerning diaspora Jews.

 

[GostHacked]

On 7/5/2019 at 6:44 PM, DogOnPorch said:

 

Often right in front of other critters who ARE terrified at what they just saw.

Kind of like how it's done in modern animal farming.

[GostHacked]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

So you've been saying forever.  BTW what's your solution for doing that again?

Woah there pal, He'll call you a Nazi for making the simplest of proposals. That's exactly what DoP tried on me a few times.

[eyeball]

26 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

Woah there pal, He'll call you a Nazi for making the simplest of proposals. That's exactly what DoP tried on me a few times.

I'm not proposing anything.

[GostHacked]

17 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I'm not proposing anything.

Ok then you should be safe from his attacks then.

[DogOnPorch]

13 hours ago, Marocc said:

 

No, Jihad isn't going to the gym. Maybe from here it doesn't take you too many decades to learn what it is.

 

Unlike the bullshit artists who try to make Jihad a peaceful act, the Quran & Hadiths don't beat around the bush. Jihad is fighting in the cause of Allah for which there is great reward. Both Earthly...war booty...and divine...orgy heaven. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

https://quran.com/8/39

41. Abdullah bin Masud: I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." I did not ask Allah's Apostle anymore and if I had asked him more, he would have told me more.

42. Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately.

43. 'Aisha: (That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."

44. Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

More...

https://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=52&translator=1

[Marocc]

35 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Unlike the bullshit artists who try to make Jihad a peaceful act, the Quran & Hadiths don't beat around the bush. Jihad is fighting in the cause of Allah for which there is great reward. Both Earthly...war booty...and divine...orgy heaven. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah . And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.

https://quran.com/8/39

41. Abdullah bin Masud: I asked Allah's Apostle, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the best deed?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is next in goodness?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I further asked, what is next in goodness?" He replied, "To participate in Jihad in Allah's Cause." I did not ask Allah's Apostle anymore and if I had asked him more, he would have told me more.

42. Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle said, "There is no Hijra (i.e. migration) (from Mecca to Medina) after the Conquest (of Mecca), but Jihad and good intention remain; and if you are called (by the Muslim ruler) for fighting, go forth immediately.

43. 'Aisha: (That she said), "O Allah's Apostle! We consider Jihad as the best deed. Should we not fight in Allah's Cause?" He said, "The best Jihad (for women) is Hajj-Mabrur (i.e. Hajj which is done according to the Prophet's tradition and is accepted by Allah)."

44. Abu Huraira: A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."

More...

https://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=52&translator=1

I thought you wouldn't have spent more than five minutes reading the over 200,000 hadiths. Which shows in you quoting the least likely to be misunderstood and the least insinuating of violence. You could have done so much better.

I'll help you with the word jihad.

"The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving. The arabic word for war is: "al-harb". In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s),

"jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam. If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement.

Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted. Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment. In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important. The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars say this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam. Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests."

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9

Edited July 10, 2019 by Marocc

[DogOnPorch]

Just now, Marocc said:

I thought you wouldn't have spent more than five minutes reading the over 200,000 hadiths. Which shows in you quoting the least likely to be misunderstood and the least insinuating of violence. You could have done so much better.

I'll help you with he word jihad.

"The Arabic word "jihad" is often translated as "holy war," but in a purely linguistic sense, the word " jihad" means struggling or striving. The arabic word for war is: "al-harb". In a religious sense, as described by the Quran and teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (s),

"jihad" has many meanings. It can refer to internal as well as external efforts to be a good Muslims or believer, as well as working to inform people about the faith of Islam. If military jihad is required to protect the faith against others, it can be performed using anything from legal, diplomatic and economic to political means. If there is no peaceful alternative, Islam also allows the use of force, but there are strict rules of engagement.

Innocents - such as women, children, or invalids - must never be harmed, and any peaceful overtures from the enemy must be accepted. Military action is therefore only one means of jihad, and is very rare. To highlight this point, the Prophet Mohammed told his followers returning from a military campaign: "This day we have returned from the minor jihad to the major jihad," which he said meant returning from armed battle to the peaceful battle for self-control and betterment. In case military action appears necessary, not everyone can declare jihad. The religious military campaign has to be declared by a proper authority, advised by scholars, who say the religion and people are under threat and violence is imperative to defend them. The concept of "just war" is very important. The concept of jihad has been hijacked by many political and religious groups over the ages in a bid to justify various forms of violence. In most cases, Islamic splinter groups invoked jihad to fight against the established Islamic order. Scholars say this misuse of jihad contradicts Islam. Examples of sanctioned military jihad include the Muslims' defensive battles against the Crusaders in medieval times, and before that some responses by Muslims against Byzantine and Persian attacks during the period of the early Islamic conquests."

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.org/understanding-islam/legal-rulings/5-jihad-a-misunderstood-concept-from-islam.html?start=9

 

Don't need you to understand Islam...thanks though.

[Marocc]

1 minute ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Don't need you to understand Islam...thanks though.

I know you don't need me to understand, but I do. So does the Islamic supreme Council....

[Marocc]

http://www.quranicstudies.com/jihad/the-meaning-of-jihad/

"Jihad is simply the process of “exerting the best efforts,” involving some form of “struggle” and “resistance,” to achieve a particular goal. In other words, jihad is the struggle against, or resistance to, something for the sake of a goal. The meaning of the word is independent of the nature of the invested efforts or the sought goal. 

Contrary to common belief, the word “jihad” does not necessarily imply any violent effort, let alone “war” and such instances of extreme violence. It is a general term that can mean violent as well as peaceful actions, depending on the context in which it is used, as we shall indeed see later. Similarly, “jihad” as a generic word can be used even when the sought goals are not Islamic, i.e. in non-religious contexts. 

The Qur’an uses the verb of “jihad” in its generic meaning of “exerting the best efforts against something” in the following two verses:      

"And We have enjoined on man goodness to parents, but if they jahadaka (do jihad against you) to make you associate [a god] with Me, of which you have no knowledge [being a god], do not obey them. To Me is your return [O people!], so I shall inform you of your past deeds" (29.8). 

"And We have enjoined on man to be good to his parents; his mother bears him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years; and that [you must] be grateful to Me and to both your parents. To Me is the eventual coming" (31.14).

"And if they jahadaka (do jihad against you) to make you associate [a god] with Me, of which you have no knowledge [being a god], do not obey them, but keep company with them in this world kindly; and follow the way of he who turns to Me. Then to Me is your [O people!] return, then I shall inform you of your past deeds" (31.15)."

[DogOnPorch]

2 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I know you don't need me to understand, but I do. So does the Islamic supreme Council....

 

Fuck 'the Islamic Supreme Council'...frankly. A useless organization. Just like CAIR and the ICNA...lipstick on a pig.

Why does every Muslim advocacy group sound like it's a branch of the Third Reich? Not good at picking names...that's for sure.

 

 

[Marocc]

2 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

Fuck 'the Islamic Supreme Council'...frankly. A useless organization. Just like CAIR and the ICNA...lipstick on a pig.

Why does every Muslim advocacy group sound like it's a branch of the Third Reich? Not good at picking names...that's for sure.

 

 

But I can find so many more sources for you if the name of this doesn't please you.

[dialamah]

10 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

Don't need you to understand Islam...thanks though.

Clearly your "understanding" of Islam is shallow and one-sided - you only "understand" that which allows you to view Islam as a "death cult".  Anything else you dismiss.  That isn't understanding, that's demonizing and islamaphobic.

[DogOnPorch]

36 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Clearly your "understanding" of Islam is shallow and one-sided - you only "understand" that which allows you to view Islam as a "death cult".  Anything else you dismiss.  That isn't understanding, that's demonizing and islamaphobic.

 

Any faith that rewards dying in the name of Allah/God/Jupiter/Gilgamesh is a death cult to me. That it isn't to you shows how far you're willing to serve Islam. And believe me...you serve.

Edited July 10, 2019 by DogOnPorch

[DogOnPorch]

38 minutes ago, Marocc said:

But I can find so many more sources for you if the name of this doesn't please you.

 

You're no teacher and I'm not your student. Your religion is disgusting...my take...from boinking little girls to torturing animals...not my idea of 'godly'.

[Marocc]

12 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're no teacher and I'm not your student. Your religion is disgusting...my take...from boinking little girls to torturing animals...not my idea of 'godly'.

I'm sure you are your idea of godly.

[DogOnPorch]

11 minutes ago, Marocc said:

I'm sure you are your idea of godly.

 

I accept your surrender.

[jacee]

1 hour ago, DogOnPorch said:

 

You're no teacher and I'm not your student. Your religion is disgusting...my take...from boinking little girls to torturing animals...not my idea of 'godly'.

Religion itself is disgusting, imo.

Catholic, United and Anglican 'church people', raping, torturing and killing Indigenous kids, killing the babies born of rape, burning their remains in school furnaces or cementing them into foundations, or selling them alive into sexual slavery. 

And that's just Canada. 

Religion is the true evil in the world. 

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, jacee said:

Religion itself is disgusting, imo.

Catholic, United and Anglican 'church people', raping, torturing and killing Indigenous kids, killing the babies born of rape, burning their remains in school furnaces or cementing them into foundations, or selling them alive into sexual slavery. 

And that's just Canada. 

Religion is the true evil in the world. 

Really, that's just people.  And only some people.  They use religion to provide themselves with power and cover, and so they can think of their victims as not deserving of respect or kindness.

Edited July 10, 2019 by dialamah

[Argus]

4 hours ago, dialamah said:

Clearly your "understanding" of Islam is shallow and one-sided - you only "understand" that which allows you to view Islam as a "death cult". 

What would you have us understand which would make us feel less critical of Islam?
What good thing about Islam do you think would offset that it calls for the death of anyone who leaves, who blasphemes, who commits adultery, who is gay, etc. etc? These are not edgy, extremist beliefs. They are echoed by virtually all clerics in the Muslim world.

Islam is a systemically bigoted religion, which can be proven by looking at how the 50 Muslim states operate. As I've said before, none treat women equally, and none treat unbelievers equally to Muslims. You'd think at least one or two would! I mean, there's 50 of them! But nope.

And you want us to respect that?

 

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, Argus said:

What would you have us understand which would make us feel less critical of Islam?
What good thing about Islam do you think would offset that it calls for the death of anyone who leaves, who blasphemes, who commits adultery, who is gay, etc. etc? These are not edgy, extremist beliefs. They are echoed by virtually all clerics in the Muslim world.

Islam is a systemically bigoted religion, which can be proven by looking at how the 50 Muslim states operate. As I've said before, none treat women equally, and none treat unbelievers equally to Muslims. You'd think at least one or two would! I mean, there's 50 of them! But nope.

But there was a few clerics scattered through 3 of those 50 Muslim states who agreed that terrorism was bad, so.....problem solved.  Why do you keep harping on it? 

Having thought about "interpretation" as discussed here, I wonder why Maroacc would assert that there is no  interpretations in Islam, when there clearly is.  I think the lack of any authoritative source of doctrinal interpretation, instead of inviting democratic and egalitarian interpretations and behaviours, has just given extremists the power of  interpretation and the influence to promote their views.

It could be that there are "unofficial" hierarchies within Islam - Saudi Arabia clearly leads the rest of the Muslim world in determining what is "islamic doctrine" and its done a very poor job of it.  I find it difficult to believe that the majority of Muslims are rejecting what the Saudis are dishing out to them, under the weight of its influence and money.  If they were rejecting Saudi interpretations of Islam, they would not be bowing to its influence and taking its money anywhere in the West (or in the world, if it's true that the vast majority of Muslims reject the violent interpretations).  I don't see this happening.  It's a tough sell to say that the majority of Muslims reject the violent Saudi interpretations - while at the same time, they are enjoying its political influence and accepting its money.

[dialamah]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

But there was a few clerics scattered through 3 of those 50 Muslim states who agreed that terrorism was bad, so.....problem solved

I don't think there is a better response than this one, from MH:

"Dehumanize them.  Demand they reform their religion, but deny any efforts to do so and claim they're incapable.

Discount violence and abuse against them.

That's what is happening here."

The example I gave of 70 clerics who issued fatwas against terrorism is just one example of Islamic leaders denouncoing terrorism.  Never mind the number of "just Muslims" who do, including our recent newcomer.  But of course DoP says they're "lying" cause God forbid any individual or group of Muslims should condemn violence!  What would happen to his "Muslims are evil" narrative then?

And of course you play the same game: dismiss those who preach non-violence as irrelevant.

2 hours ago, Argus said:

by looking at how the 50 Muslim states operate.

Many of those states operate near identically to non-Muslim States.  If it's all Islam, how do you explain the "other" states who imprison, torture and murder their own subjects and treat women like second class citizens.

[Goddess]

33 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't think there is a better response than this one, from MH:

"Dehumanize them.  Demand they reform their religion, but deny any efforts to do so and claim they're incapable.

Discount violence and abuse against them.

That's what is happening here."

The example I gave of 70 clerics who issued fatwas against terrorism is just one example of Islamic leaders denouncoing terrorism.  Never mind the number of "just Muslims" who do, including our recent newcomer.  But of course DoP says they're "lying" cause God forbid any individual or group of Muslims should condemn violence!  What would happen to his "Muslims are evil" narrative then?

And of course you play the same game: dismiss those who preach non-violence as irrelevant.

Many of those states operate near identically to non-Muslim States.  If it's all Islam, how do you explain the "other" states who imprison, torture and murder their own subjects and treat women like second class citizens.

Another post where you re-write what is said, giving it your own special warped slant and quibbling about words, all while ignoring and refusing to address the actual point made in the posts.

I'm not responding to your insults and warped re-wordings anymore.  Go cry to Charles again, while you consistently insult and name-call others.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Goddess

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Dehumanize them.  Demand they reform their religion, but deny any efforts to do so and claim they're incapable.

Discount violence and abuse against them.

That's what is happening here.

 

 

37 minutes ago, dialamah said:

I don't think there is a better response than this one, from MH:

"Dehumanize them.  Demand they reform their religion, but deny any efforts to do so and claim they're incapable.

Discount violence and abuse against them.

That's what is happening here."

 

That's just a cop out to avoid the truth.  You both probably think the death penalty for blasphemy (among other things) is just as inhuman as I do, but for some reason it should not be pointed out.