CUPE tears up Carney’s return to work order.

[Shady]

More negotiating masterwork from Mark Carney, as CUPE tears up his return to work order after he trampled on their charter rights.

 

[Politics1990]

i love it   it was a slap in the face to unions to ORDER them back to work DAY 1  of the strike the pro corporation libs  deserve the backlash they about to get  

[August1991]

If you don't like working for Air Canada, quit.

======

I suspect that the union has few supporters except government travellers.

[CdnFox]

Carney really has badly handled this.  (i know, i know, i'll add it to the ever growing pile) 

You've got an obvious appearance of conflict of interest there and rather than address that he has her order them back to work. So of course they're pissed. 

And every other union is going to be watching this and carney won't be winning points. 

Now he's  in a bad spot, can't back down or he'll look weak and he can't force them to comply without looking like a bully. 

[August1991]

CdnFox,

I agree.

......

It is like the Ukrainian-Russian situation in 2014.

It could have been avoided.

[August1991]

Carney?

People like him lead ordinary people into the cataclysm of Summer 1914.

[Venandi]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

If you don't like working for Air Canada, quit.

======

I suspect that the union has few supporters except government travellers.

AC will advertise an FA job as being $30 an hour... which sounds pretty good until you realize that your pay only kicks in when the aircraft is in motion. In other words, there's a lot (and I mean a LOT) of unpaid work which probably drops the actual hourly rate bellow minimum wage (in many cases).  

There's the old joke about pilots too... if you can see a pilot, he's not getting paid.

A bit like a carpenter only being paid when he has a hammer in his hand or a welder when the torch is burning. 

Pairings are a function of seniority with the worst trips going junior and those would be multiple short hops with long station stops. At the extreme end of it I recall one in particular... it was a 14 hour crew day with about 3 hours of paid flying time....$6.42 per hour for a FA. 

I suppose you could stick to your guns and say: "hey, nobody made you take that job" why not quit. The reason is seniority rules your life and it's company specific. Leave the company you have seniority with and you're back to apprentice wages at your new one. Why? Because they can.

It makes for interesting lunch time discussions with some of the tradesmen I've worked with. Why is an experienced pilot working as a carpenter? But, when you frame it in terms of experienced Red Seal workers seeking employment elsewhere... they're usually surprised by the fact that within the industry, seniority is a trap . What it means in terms of "if you don't like it quit" is that in essence, you have to leave the industry... not just look for a new job 

I'm just scratching the surface here... this could be a whole thread with lots of tentacles...  it explains why some veteran (but unlucky) pilots found themselves better off driving dump trucks than airplanes during a serious pilot shortage.

In a round about way, that's why you should care... because it effects you too. In the early stages of the shortage, there wasn't a lack of experienced pilots, there was a lack of experienced pilots willing to work for apprentice wages.

 

 

Edited August 18, 2025 by Venandi

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, Shady said:

More negotiating masterwork from Mark Carney, as CUPE tears up his return to work order after he trampled on their charter rights.

 

And how is this anything to do with Mark Carney????

[ExFlyer]

3 hours ago, Venandi said:

AC will advertise an FA job as being $30 an hour... which sounds pretty good until you realize that your pay only kicks in when the aircraft is in motion. In other words, there's a lot (and I mean a LOT) of unpaid work which probably drops the actual hourly rate bellow minimum wage (in many cases).  

There's the old joke about pilots too... if you can see a pilot, he's not getting paid.

A bit like a carpenter only being paid when he has a hammer in his hand or a welder when the torch is burning. 

Pairings are a function of seniority with the worst trips going junior and those would be multiple short hops with long station stops. At the extreme end of it I recall one in particular... it was a 14 hour crew day with about 3 hours of paid flying time....$6.42 per hour for a FA. 

I suppose you could stick to your guns and say: "hey, nobody made you take that job" why not quit. The reason is seniority rules your life and it's company specific. Leave the company you have seniority with and you're back to apprentice wages at your new one. Why? Because they can.

It makes for interesting lunch time discussions with some of the tradesmen I've worked with. Why is an experienced pilot working as a carpenter? But, when you frame it in terms of experienced Red Seal workers seeking employment elsewhere... they're usually surprised by the fact that within the industry, seniority is a trap . What it means in terms of "if you don't like it quit" is that in essence, you have to leave the industry... not just look for a new job 

I'm just scratching the surface here... this could be a whole thread with lots of tentacles...  it explains why some veteran (but unlucky) pilots found themselves better off driving dump trucks than airplanes during a serious pilot shortage.

In a round about way, that's why you should care... because it effects you too. In the early stages of the shortage, there wasn't a lack of experienced pilots, there was a lack of experienced pilots willing to work for apprentice wages.

 

 

While I agree they should get paid from the time they show up for work ,like all other workers, I thunk a few facts need to be thrown into the mix for an 80 hour work month (by CAA regulation).

Present pay:

https://www.aircanada.com/media/air-canada-and-air-canada-rouge-flight-attendant-negotiations/

 

Air Canada offer:

https://www.aircanada.com/media/air-canada-provides-clarity-on-its-offer-to-cupe/

Edited August 18, 2025 by ExFlyer

[Venandi]

All of this is a matter of opinion I guess, mine is that it's unwise to mess with the current pay structure (and bidding process) that everyone is used to. 

AC has always counted on government intervention in any labour dispute... and they get it. They will also publish top tier pay rates and quote T-4s based on long haul (meaning high seniority) long duration flights; the union will do the exact opposite

By way of example, the hourly FA rates (they serve up as examples) are actually more than the hourly rate I ever received as a pilot with FO status and  relatively low seniority. There's a lot of propaganda to cut through... it makes my eyes glaze over and I've been out of that stream long enough that my opinion is of limited value anyway. 

That said:

I think - If AC were to eliminate the lowest 2 or 3 pay levels bringing new hires to a reasonable wage and do away with the pay freeze on mainline transfers from Rouge, the current offer might work. As a practical matter, I doubt the FAs really want to track short duration blocks of ground operating time (for pay purposes) and then fight with the company every month over the inevitable discrepancies. 

Industry wide there are enough issues with mobility, LMO's and TFWs (particularly in the helo world) to fill a book. If I were to use an experienced surgeon (or any tradesman) as analogous to an experienced airline pilot in terms of job mobility vs pay, the only people you would find driving trucks during a critical worker shortage would be the experienced pilots... and that's because it pays better than starting over again at the bottom in a city you can't afford to live in. Clearly it depends on your age, where you live, and you're willingness to go overseas... for me, there was no upside.  

 

  

 

 

Edited August 18, 2025 by Venandi

[CdnFox]

9 hours ago, August1991 said:

CdnFox,

I agree.

......

It is like the Ukrainian-Russian situation in 2014.

It could have been avoided.

That's a very oddly specific comparison but sure.   

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

And how is this anything to do with Mark Carney????

So your question is "what does the gov't making a mess of this have to do with mark carney".  

Well, i know you live in your mommie's basement and may not have heard but Mark is the head of the gov't.  This is 100 percent in his control. 

But i see by all your little passive aggressive down arrows that you're already suffering emotional crisis this morning so maybe you forgot   

[TreeBeard]

20 hours ago, Shady said:

More negotiating masterwork from Mark Carney

You think Carney is Air Canada’s negotiator?  Is there anything this man doesn’t do??

Edited August 18, 2025 by TreeBeard

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

So your question is "what does the gov't making a mess of this have to do with mark carney".  

Well, i know you live in your mommie's basement and may not have heard but Mark is the head of the gov't.  This is 100 percent in his control. 

But i see by all your little passive aggressive down arrows that you're already suffering emotional crisis this morning so maybe you forgot   

Typical zero on topic response from a LOSER LOL

An uniformed and unintelligent LOSER too

down arrows are all you (and some of your LOSER buddies) deserve LOL

Stay away...You do not want to start again.... 

Edited August 18, 2025 by ExFlyer

[Legato]

5 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You think Carney is Air Canada’s negotiator?  Is there anything this man doesn’t do??

Yes, it's a heck of a lot.

[Legato]

1 minute ago, Legato said:

Yes, it's a heck of a lot.

I see the flybaby is back with the bloodspots.

Did someone stick him with a fork? 

[Nationalist]

Air Canada...what a joke.

[herbie]

Is it the govt's fault or the fault of all these companies that feel they're vital to the economy refusing to negotiate in good faith when they know the govt will step in an impose settlements?

I think it's mainly the latter, with the govt against a rock wall in the current times.
And ditch the bullshit, a Tory govt would act no different. They'd be far worse.

[Aristides]

The IRB has ordered them back to work. If they refuse, the union can be subject to huge fines. 

They are probably due for a big raise. Workers gave up a lot of concessions when airlines were on the brink during things like the economic melt down and covid. As far as getting paid from the time they show up goes, that will be problematic. Being paid only when the aircraft is in motion is pretty much industry standard for FA's and pilots in North America and anything else would put the company at a disadvantage to their competitors. Apparently the company offered half pay for some of the time but we don't know what "some" means or what the union is demanding.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Typical zero on topic response from a LOSER LOL

It literally answered your question directly. What does the government have to do with mark carney? Mark carney runs the government.

The problem is your question was mind-meltingly stupid, but again your stupidity is not my fault and I take no responsibility

Quote

An uniformed and unintelligent LOSER too

Or was I wrong? Mark carney isn't the leader of the government?

I love that you're not afraid to double down on your stupid

 

Quote

down arrows are all you (and some of your LOSER buddies) deserve LOL

More like it's all you've got   Every single time you do something stupid and you can't even defend yourself, all you do is double down on the stupid and wind up looking stupider

 

Quote

Stay away...You do not want to start again.... 

Start what? Laughing every time you post a desperate cry for help begging me to pay attention to you because you have father issues? Why wouldn't i want free entertainment  

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You think Carney is Air Canada’s negotiator? 

Air Canada did not order the workers back to work.

You seem to be confused again.

[CdnFox]

52 minutes ago, herbie said:

Is it the govt's fault or the fault of all these companies that feel they're vital to the economy refusing to negotiate in good faith when they know the govt will step in an impose settlements?

I think it's mainly the latter, with the govt against a rock wall in the current times.
And ditch the bullshit, a Tory govt would act no different. They'd be far worse.

The company is there to get the best deal for the company possible. That's a given

The workers are there to get the best deal for the workers possible. That's a given

When either of those two is misguided

The government is supposed to step in when things get out of control and in an impartial fashion put conditions down to ensure that the public interest his address. That means the workers the employer and the public

The way they've handled this is poor. Even if they believe they are handling it impartially the appearance is certainly not that. And it's a little questionable as to whether their actions are constitutional.

They ignored the objects which is always terrible, they jumped in too quickly and they've tried to resolve it in a very ham-fisted manner. And now the situation is blowing up.

They are supposed to be the circuit breaker I feel that their job and they are the ones that have to wear it.

[LinkSoul60]

Carney has been negotiating for AC?  Typical nonsense....

I take no side in this impasse but seems to me no charter rights have been trampled given our Canadian labour code.  AC carry's far too many people and critical supplies that our economy and people depend on for it to be grounded.  They've been negotiating since March and are not close, say they're at an impasse, so need an arbitrator involved. If the flight attendants have the strong case they say they do then I'd trust the arbitrator would recognize that in the binding settlement.

[ExFlyer]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It literally answered your question directly. What does the government have to do with mark carney? Mark carney runs the government.

The problem is .

 

More like it's al.

 

Start what? .

.

Aaaand away we go....another round of 1diocy for confux....

You said "So your question is "what does the gov't making a mess of this have to do with mark carney".  "...no answer, just regurgitation of my question you fool LOL

Oh and...back on topic...the flight attendants have struck a deal with Air Canada mediated by a government appointed mediator like the government said to do last Friday LOL. F'n unions...screwed thousands of travellers and they could have avoided that.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2025 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

Aaaand away we go....another round of 1diocy for confux....

 

LOLOL did you think about that before you wrote it?  So this is you giving everyone another round of 1diocy   So you're an 1diot    "Again" apparently  

ROFMAO!! See this is what i was talking about   You being an !diot is comedy gold!  Loving it!

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, CdnFox said:

LOLOL did you think about that before you wrote it?  

You want it , you got it. Fair warning LOL

Only an 1diot would constantly retort to a nonsense post and well, you fit that bill perfectly.

You seem to think people are laughing at me...what do think people think of you that keeps on retorting and getting the same ole same ole back all the time???