Why is Canada such a mess in so many ways?

[August1991]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

I have a Canadian acquaintance who works in China.  He reports:

====

It is a fact that many of our liberal of left-leaning politicians believe that freedom must include the freedom to be homeless, be druggies, prostitutes, drugs in schools, support sexual orientation/gender change ideology,  LGBTQ+2s rights (whatever that is), take drugs on streets or anywhere, and freedom to live in a country with a failing health care system.

I have thought about this.

When Mao took power in 1949, his regime simply killed most heroin addicts.

I was in Singapore under Lee.

Dunno.

 

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well, it sure sounds like you've embraced China's basic dictatorship.

You appear to be suggesting we should do whatever it is China is doing to fix our problems.

Did you know China's prosecutors enjoy a 99% success rate in convictions?

 

 

Never said that.  Why do you not want to have a decent country with law and order?   

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

ou would definitely need to scrap or amend our Charter of Rights and Freedoms to the point it was almost the opposite of what it is.

So what you mean is we can't stop all the crime and disorder in society?

Doesn't sound too rational.

Do you seriously think arresting and immediately releasing dangerous offenders is a Charter Right?   No rational person would think like that.  

Many of the problems we have with crime and bad behavior is because they have mental problems and nothing is done about it.  How about creating mental institutions and committing people who are determined to be a danger to society.  The liberal ideology that they should not be in mental institutions has proven a disaster.

Carney mentioned tightening up the bail laws, but he didn't say anything about all the mentally disturbed people that are everywhere.

Edited Monday at 07:57 AM by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

How can it be the fault of people who have zero governing power the last 10 years.

Granted the CPC could improve the ideas they bring forward so that enough people will vote for them in order to win, but the buck stops with the Liberals.

They could help instead of always complain.  like a great person once said, you are either part of the solution or part of the pavement....and the conservatives have been part of the pavement for the past 10 years. or, if you can, show us one solution?? LOL

[Venandi]

18 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

LOSERS...every one of them

 

16 hours ago, herbie said:

Hypocritical ingrates.

 

16 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Hit ya where it hurts EH?   LOL

I think the question posed has much to do with the fact that you (we and us collectively) can no longer have a civil conversation with people across the hall. And consider that this is all in the absence of ethnic grudges that go back generations, imagine how that strengthens resolve and causes people to cling to animosities... we're actually seeing the first ripples of that now BTW.

The level of polarization and downright meanness (for lack of a better word) is something I used to dress up and travel long distances to experience. Some of us (foolishly as it turns out) thought the effort of doing so would somehow keep it "over there."

I now think conservatives will bide their time until it's their turn to "hit ya where it hurts," they're actually going to enjoy doing that and they'll do it with the same level of glee clearly on display in the quotes above. And perversely, everything that you don't like about Trump is coming your way and will actually be magnified as a direct result.

At its heart it's a bit like trying to keep the peace by mediating "tit for tat" tribal cattle stealing in Africa. The circumstances are obviously different but the human nature aspect remains constant. I've cone to see adverse circumstances as less important than the cooperation and kindness it takes to overcome them.

If you don't believe that take a moment and imagine trying to wallpaper a large room with Roboduh.    

 

Edited Monday at 03:01 PM by Venandi

[ExFlyer]

1 minute ago, Venandi said:

 

 

I think the question posed has much to do with the fact that you can no longer have a civil conversation with people across the hall. And consider that it's in the absence of ethnic grudges that go back generations, imagine how that strengthens resolve and causes people to cling to animosities... we're actually seeing the first ripples of that now BTW.

The level of polarization and downright meanness (for lack of a better word) is something I used to dress up and travel long distances to experience. Some of us (foolishly as it turns out) thought the effort of doing so would somehow keep it "over there."

I now think conservatives will bide their time until it's their turn to "hit ya where it hurts," they're actually going to enjoy doing that and they'll do it with the same level of glee clearly on display in the quotes above. And perversely, everything that you don't like about Trump is coming your way and will actually be magnified as a direct result.

At its heart it's a bit like trying to keep the peace by mediating "tit for tat" tribal cattle stealing in Africa. The circumstances are obviously different but the human nature aspect remains constant. I've cone to see adverse circumstances as less important than the cooperation and kindness it takes to overcome them.  

 

Polarization has been rampant on this forum for years.

Conservatives have displayed Trumpism for years.

The glee is from them having lost the election and yet, they still carry on...so much like Trump supporters when he lost the election.

I do not believe the Liberal government will be like Trump at all. I truly believe they will fight to be Canadian and stay Canadian. I also do not understand why some here will not wait to find out what the plan will be or is. Expecting instant results is not even logical, let alone achievable. Dealing with a bully is not a one off circus. It is going to take time. 

Anyway, I was not so sure about he conservatives so, for the first time ever, I voted Liberal.

As for calling them LOSERS, well, the long time animosity towards some of the posters just had to be demonstrated. The fact they continue to retort and not accept the result just makes me have all the more fun with them :)

 

[Legato]

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Polarization has been rampant on this forum for years.

Conservatives have displayed Trumpism for years.

The glee is from them having lost the election and yet, they still carry on...so much like Trump supporters when he lost the election.

I do not believe the Liberal government will be like Trump at all. I truly believe they will fight to be Canadian and stay Canadian. I also do not understand why some here will not wait to find out what the plan will be or is. Expecting instant results is not even logical, let alone achievable. Dealing with a bully is not a one off circus. It is going to take time. 

Anyway, I was not so sure about he conservatives so, for the first time ever, I voted Liberal.

As for calling them LOSERS, well, the long time animosity towards some of the posters just had to be demonstrated. The fact they continue to retort and not accept the result just makes me have all the more fun with them :)

 

 

[Shady]

19 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Why is Canada such a mess in so many ways?

Because conservatives have done nothing to help make it better.  Since Harper lost, the cons have had no ideas and have done nothing to make Canada any better. Polievere has done nothing but vote against anything and his groupies think it was and is OK.

LOSERS...every one of them

This makes no sense at all.  You’re blaming conservatives who have had no legislative power since 2015, but absolving the Liberals who have, and in some cases majority rule.  Liberals have not needed conservatives to pass legislation.  Conservatives have no responsibility for the policies that have been enacted since 2015.  You’re just trying to shift blame.

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, Shady said:

This makes no sense at all.  You’re blaming conservatives who have had no legislative power since 2015, but absolving the Liberals who have, and in some cases majority rule.  Liberals have not needed conservatives to pass legislation.  Conservatives have no responsibility for the policies that have been enacted since 2015.  You’re just trying to shift blame.

Yup, I am.

I blame them because as legislators, they should be trying and helping make Canada stronger and, as you say, since 2015,, the party, and particularly the party leader, has done nothing for Canada except whine.

We have been stuck with a minority government and the NDP getting what it wants.]

Imagine what we could have been with simple cooperation.

[Legato]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, I am.

I blame them because as legislators, they should be trying and helping make Canada stronger and, as you say, since 2015,, the party, and particularly the party leader, has done nothing for Canada except whine.

We have been stuck with a minority government and the NDP getting what it wants.]

Imagine what we could have been with simple cooperation.

Like that simple cooperation with the NDP ?

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, Legato said:

Like that simple cooperation with the NDP ?

OK, but the NDP needed something and got it, PP did nothing but whine and complain since 2015 and got nothing, for them and for Canada.

[Army Guy]

31 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, I am.

I blame them because as legislators, they should be trying and helping make Canada stronger and, as you say, since 2015,, the party, and particularly the party leader, has done nothing for Canada except whine.

We have been stuck with a minority government and the NDP getting what it wants.]

Imagine what we could have been with simple cooperation.

This is typical liberal speak, shift the blame to the opposition party becasue it is convenient, lets not even talk about the liberals faults because there is to many, one would not know where to start, lets start with Justin was the worst PM in our history....start there....there are 3 parties on the left, and 2 on the right, both the left and right are "miles" apart on almost every issue, gun control, military, entire security apparatus, foreign assistance, the list goes on and on....where do you think they would find common ground...Blaming the conservatives for something the liberals did or wanted nothing to do with cooperation is talking out of your ass...

NDP got what exactly in the 4 plus years they were joined with the liberals....and what they did mange is not even close to being fully implemented...is that the standard for getting what it wants, pretty low bar...

Imagine if the liberals had common sense , and did things that benefited Canadians, you could take some time and mention what exactly did the liberals do in the last 9 plus years under justin...I'm pretty sure Carney has done more in his short time in office....you can't lay the success or failure of the liberal party on anyone except themselves...And while every Canadian has one vote to do with what they want, i'm not sure how you justify giving the liberals another term after what they have accomplished to date...and yet somehow a large chunk of canadians did....it had nothing to do with what was best for the country, or who had the best policies or platform, it was all about how they hated PP and how he looked...

 

[herbie]

21 hours ago, herbie said:

You are living in a country with more freedom, wealth and opportunity than anyone who who ever lived before you

That is an absolute statement of undeniable fact. It is not polarized in any wsy or a mere opinion. Neither is calling anyone who refuses to recognize that fact an ingrate.

And I must shamefully admit that in our 20s my cousins and I were dressed down for that same snivelling and negativism by a couple Uncles who emigrated to here in front of a large family gathering.That very fact and You live in the best country in the world and have absolutely no concept of anyplace else, something I remind myself of when I even think I might be falling down the rabbit hole some of you seem to like living in.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

This is typical liberal speak, shift the blame to the opposition party becasue it is convenient, ...

 

No, you are incorrect.

I blame them because they have not done anything for Canada for 15 years.

[CdnFox]

On 5/25/2025 at 12:56 PM, Aristides said:

I think it has got worse everywhere. I don't dispute that our justice system has issues but the fentanyl plague has changed everything when it comes to drug deaths. Per capita, the US is as bad or worse than Canada when it comes to opioid deaths even though they have the highest incarceration rate in the world. I'm not sure what the answer is.

The left always seems to try it out this bizarre little lie that somehow anything that's going wrong in Canada is also going wrong everywhere else in the world and therefore it's not Canada's fault

Hey. Get real.

This is happening here because of bad policies brought on by a bad government and a corrupt party. That is the only reason it is happening. It's got nothing to do at all with anywhere else and you are attempting to bullshit for the liberals and cover for them by excusing it as some sort of global issue demeans your country and your intellect

[eyeball]

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

Never said that.  Why do you not want to have a decent country with law and order?

I already have one thanks. I can count the times on one hand I've locked my doors the 50 years. Granted I'm in the boonies but even my big city relatives still shake their heads in wonderment knowing I live right next door to a 'reserve'.

14 hours ago, blackbird said:

So what you mean is we can't stop all the crime and disorder in society?

No I'm just willing to bet trying to stamp it out to the extent you seem to think it's stamped out in China would make life suck for everyone, not just criminals.

I'm also betting if a lot more attention were paid to white collar crime and cracking down on grotesque socioeconomic inequality would produce exponentially better results than trying to eliminate the smell of pot on your street.

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I already have one thanks. I can count the times on one hand I've locked my doors the 50 years. Granted I'm in the boonies but even my big city relatives still shake their heads in wonderment knowing I live right next door to a 'reserve'.

No I'm just willing to bet trying to stamp it out to the extent you seem to think it's stamped out in China would make life suck for everyone, not just criminals.

I'm also betting if a lot more attention were paid to white collar crime and cracking down on grotesque socioeconomic inequality would produce exponentially better results than trying to eliminate the smell of pot on your street.

Guess you don't own a business in some small sized, medium or large city where repeat offenders walk in frequently and just walk out with an armload of goods.  If they are arrested, the court releases them right away.  But that's all right with you.   Or the woman visiting Vancouver and walking in a park is almost beaten to death.  The guy is arrested and released within days.  

How you figure keeping these repeat offenders behind bars and off the street would make life suck for everyone.  Do you cry when you think of the criminals in prison or mentally ill in an institution?

You talk about socioeconomic inequality, but reject law and order and the safety of society just because you are in a small place where nothing bad happens.  Millions don't live in the backwoods and must keep their doors locked and watch their back and where they go.

[Moonlight Graham]

11 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

They could help instead of always complain.  like a great person once said, you are either part of the solution or part of the pavement....and the conservatives have been part of the pavement for the past 10 years. or, if you can, show us one solution?? LOL

Well the official opposition's job is to complain.  To hold the government accountable.  Could the CPC do a better job at providing specific solution proposals instead of vague slogans like "stop the crime, build the homes" etc?  Yes absolutely.  They do that because most voters will agree on reducing crime and building more homes, but not everyone will agree on the solutions to do it.

The problem with the Liberals is that they have formed the government for 10 years now and their solutions which have been enacted policy have been largely failures.  You can't blame the CPC for any of the failures of Liberal policy or their NDP partners who supported them.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Guess you don't own a business in some small sized, medium or large city where repeat offenders walk in frequently and just walk out with an armload of goods.  If they are arrested, the court releases them right away.  But that's all right with you.

No it isn't and I told you what I think would be a better solution... prevention, of the various socioeconomic circumstances that lead to crime in the first place.

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

How you figure keeping these repeat offenders behind bars and off the street would make life suck for everyone.

Living in Canada would be like living in China.

You are prescribing a government that doesn't fool around. It would treat everyone like a potential criminal until proven otherwise instead of the other way around.

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

You talk about socioeconomic inequality, but reject law and order and the safety of society just because you are in a small place where nothing bad happens.

No I don't, you think reducing socioeconomic equality is socialism aka devil worship because you're nuts.

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

Millions don't live in the backwoods and must keep their doors locked and watch their back and where they go.

I'm not saying crime can't happen anywhere but millions of other Canadians also go through life with hardly any exposure to crime.

In any case I'd rather try reducing socioeconomic inequality first before becoming a police state.

[Shady]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, I am.

I blame them because as legislators, they should be trying and helping make Canada stronger and, as you say, since 2015,, the party, and particularly the party leader, has done nothing for Canada except whine.

We have been stuck with a minority government and the NDP getting what it wants.]

Imagine what we could have been with simple cooperation.

But they have been trying to make Canada stronger.  But if the party in power doesn’t agree with their policy prescriptions there isn’t anything that they can do.  The Liberal party is solely to blame for their policies, and the mess that Canada finds itself in.   It’s not the conservatives fault that it took 6 years for them to finally eliminate the consumer carbon tax for example.  Conservatives wanted it gone several years ago, but didn’t have the legislative power to do do.  

[CdnFox]

12 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

They could help instead of always complain.  like a great person once said, you are either part of the solution or part of the pavement....and the conservatives have been part of the pavement for the past 10 years. or, if you can, show us one solution?? LOL

That is beyond stupid. Our entire system is set up for them to be the official opposition and to oppose. Their job is to pressure test the government and its solutions and to hold them to account.

What school did you go to where you didn't learn even the basics about how our system works

[blackbird]

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it isn't and I told you what I think would be a better solution... prevention, of the various socioeconomic circumstances that lead to crime in the first place.

That is just social justice warrior (Communist) nonsense that is never going to happen.  What you're saying is society must provide everything for criminals that don't do anything for themselves.  You expect society to provide everything in the hope then they won't commit crimes.  That's a pipe dream.  It's not how the real world works.  

 

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Living in Canada would be like living in China.

You are prescribing a government that doesn't fool around. It would treat everyone like a potential criminal until proven otherwise instead of the other way around.

Nonsense.  Every suspected criminal gets a trial with legal representation is innocent until proven guilty.  That doesn't need to change.   How would dealing with criminals be like living in China?  Not at all.  In China, there is no real justice system.  I never said we should follow that system.   Only if you are a criminal yourself and would be locked up;  then you might call it like China.  But it is nonsense.

 

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In any case I'd rather try reducing socioeconomic inequality first before becoming a police state.

You must live in some kind of alt reality. "socio economic inequality" sounds like Communist ideology.  We live in a free country (to a good degree) where those who are fit can get a job, learn a trade, and look after themselves.  Nobody expects taxpayers to provide everything for some who don't want to work.  What a strange way of thinking you have.   You must be listening to some real wacko ideologues.

Edited Tuesday at 03:22 AM by blackbird

[Moonlight Graham]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In any case I'd rather try reducing socioeconomic inequality first before becoming a police state.

The government has spent a ton of money on social programs like the CERB and universal dental, pharma, daycare etc to help people and increase economic equality, but it hasn't been enough to counteract the crime problems.

I think recent economic pressures, notably housing inflation and general cost inflation, has contributed to the uptick in crime.  We can try to help these problems to the extent possible via policy.  At the end of the day, current homeowners need to be willing to reduce some of the extraordinary gains they've seen in their home equity the last 10 years, but they don't seem to support that.  Otherwise rents and mortgages will remain near crisis levels.

We also don't need to become a police state to have effective law and order and proper accountability for criminals so that they are unable or at least less likely to harm the public.

I don't think it's an either/or situation.

I think we also need to be more selective on the immigrants we allow into Canada.  There's no issue with educated/skilled immigrants capable of earning good incomes (we can debate the numbers), but when you allow certain people into the country whose low skills/education condemn them to low incomes you are going to see an increase in crime.  The areas with the highest crime in the cities i've lived in have been dominated by low income immigrants (typically refugees). They should be safely resettled in countries that more align with their income earning potential instead of making our cities poorer and less safe.  Some refugees can do fine here and should be allowed to stay.

[blackbird]

44 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No I don't, you think reducing socioeconomic equality is socialism aka devil worship because you're nuts.

That's nuts.  You blame the victims or society for the acts of criminals.  That is complete assinine nonsense.

[cougar]

On 5/25/2025 at 7:52 AM, blackbird said:

So why are the things he mentioned so bad in Canada and not in China? 

This is what I have been trying to tell all of you for years.

I do not remember us in my former socialist country ever having any of the problems Canada has.

So, to answer your question, Canada is just not a socialist country to prevent these problems.

[Moonlight Graham]

41 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No it isn't and I told you what I think would be a better solution... prevention, of the various socioeconomic circumstances that lead to crime in the first place.

Don't you think we can do both?  People who commit crimes should be held accountable.  Repeat offenders should be denied bail so they can't harm again until their court date.  We can help improve economic issues like income inequality and inflation, but the BC and Liberal/NDP approach to law and order is not effective.  Their approach to many issues the last decade have been proven failures as well.

"Improving socioeconomic circumstances" isn't as easy as the left thinks.  Good intentions aren't good enough.  You bring in a carbon tax to help the climate and it causes some price inflation on goods.  You bring in a ton of immigrants and it causes housing/rent inflation and puts pressures on our healthcare systems.  You print or borrow money for the CERB and social programs like dental/pharma/daycare and inflation and government debts increase.  And if you raise taxes on the wealthy or businesses then a bunch will flee the country or move their money offshore.