Libs Housing Plan Pretty Good

[herbie]

A delve into the Liberals housing plan, watch before you criticize. Certainly more extensive than simply handin out a few tax breaks for developers and buyers, and keep in mind it's for affordable ('starter' homes) not for building a 3000 sq ft fully finished monster home in Vancouver for everyone.
I wholed-heartedly agree the NDP missed the boat on this one and will deliver more and faster housing than Conservative fans.

 

[TreeBeard]

What’s PP’s housing plan?

I know he was dropping the GST so I can now build a $1.1 million house rather than just spending a million.  Thank goodness I can add another bathroom and a rec room downstairs.  
 

That should help middle class women with aging ovaries afford a new house, right?

[BeaverFever]

The devil will be in the details. Their homes need to be quality builds that stand the test of time and don’t get shabby and rundown after a few years.
 

I also notice they mention mass production of prefab and modular homes. They and their municipal/provincial partners need to be careful not to create ghettos and slums by placing too many in the same place. They should make a variety at different price points and place them in an appropriate mix with existing homes and other new builds. . 

[Moonbox]

Sweden built a million homes from 1965 to 1974 when they faced a housing crisis. 

If a much smaller country with technology and methods from 50+ years ago could do it, there's no reason we shouldn't have been able to get going with this.  At a certain point, you just have to get it done, and agonizing over the details and planning is something that cities should have worked out already if they were managed properly.  🤷‍♂️

 

 

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Sweden built a million homes from 1965 to 1974 when they faced a housing crisis. 

If a much smaller country with technology and methods from 50+ years ago could do it, there's no reason we shouldn't have been able to get going with this.  At a certain point, you just have to get it done, and agonizing over the details and planning is something that cities should have worked out already if they were managed properly.  🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/what-canada-potential-capacity-housing-construction

We do more than that but our immigration has been much higher.

[Legato]

A bot's take....

1. High Costs and Bureaucratic Challenges:

Land Acquisition and Development:

Securing land for government housing projects can be expensive and time-consuming, especially in urban areas where land is scarce and valuable.

Construction Costs:

Government projects often face rising construction costs, delays, and quality issues, which can strain budgets and lead to project abandonment or completion with reduced quality.

Bureaucracy and Red Tape:

Navigating complex government regulations, permits, and approvals can significantly slow down project timelines and increase costs. 

2. Political and Economic Pressures:

Political Influence:

Government housing projects can be subject to political interference, leading to changes in design, location, or scope based on political agendas rather than needs or feasibility.

Economic Cycles:

Government housing programs can be affected by economic downturns, leading to budget cuts, project delays, or even abandonment.

Lack of Private Sector Involvement:

Some argue that government-led housing projects often fail to leverage the efficiency and innovation of the private sector, leading to higher costs and slower project delivery.

Unrealistic Expectations:

There's often a disconnect between the affordability goals of government housing and the actual costs of construction and maintenance, leading to projects that are either unaffordable or poorly maintained. 

 

[PIK]

Govs should govern, not build homes. 

[Army Guy]

13 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

What’s PP’s housing plan?

I know he was dropping the GST so I can now build a $1.1 million house rather than just spending a million.  Thank goodness I can add another bathroom and a rec room downstairs.  
 

That should help middle class women with aging ovaries afford a new house, right?

Maybe saving 80,000 on a million dollar home is peanuts to you, what you forget is you can build any size home "upto" 1.2 million. Thats money in your pocket....when has any government given you upto 80,000 dollars for building a home.... 

[WestCanMan]

Oh look, the lefties still like the smell of their own farts. 

[Army Guy]

46 minutes ago, PIK said:

Govs should govern, not build homes. 

Since when has a liberal government department run smoothly...Sounds like the plan to plant 1 billion trees...

How many homes were built under Justins plan Federal government pledges $6B for housing in new infrastructure fund, not very many....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-budget-housing-1.7161005

[WestCanMan]

2 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Since when has a liberal government department run smoothly...Sounds like the plan to plant 1 billion trees...

How many homes were built under Justins plan Federal government pledges $6B for housing in new infrastructure fund, not very many....

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/justin-trudeau-budget-housing-1.7161005

The Trudeau gov't was an exercise in less houses, more immigrants, decreasing housing affordability, and a massive increase in homelessness. But herbie is convinced their new plan will work.

[Aristides]

The federal AHOP program of the seventies got many people into their first homes. I know a few of them. As always, the devil is in the details.

[blackbird]

17 hours ago, herbie said:

A delve into the Liberals housing plan, watch before you criticize.

II watched for several minutes, but never heard anything that was understandable or clear.  Poor speaker.  Can't waste a lot of time on this because he should be able to make the point in a couple minutes but it drags on and on.

Canada needs 5.8 million new homes by 2030 to tackle affordability crisis, CMHC warns

 

Canada needs 5.8 million new homes by 2030 to tackle affordability crisis, CMHC warns | CBC News

What is the plan?  Is there any real liberal plan to even come close to 5.8 million homes?   I haven't seen it.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Maybe saving 80,000 on a million dollar home is peanuts to you, what you forget is you can build any size home "upto" 1.2 million. Thats money in your pocket....when has any government given you upto 80,000 dollars for building a home.... 

So if I can afford to build a million dollar home, I should get tax breaks, rather than maybe reducing my budget to $920,000?

[TreeBeard]

50 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What is the plan?  Is there any real liberal plan to even come close to 5.8 million homes? 

It actually seems pretty good. 
 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-double-pace-home-building-1.7497947

[PIK]

31 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

It actually seems pretty good. 
 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-double-pace-home-building-1.7497947

And let me guess, brookfield will be the builder.

[WestCanMan]

31 minutes ago, PIK said:

And let me guess, brookfield will be the builder.

They'll use the same builder that the Clintons used in Haiti. 

[herbie]

Unable to actually discuss pros and cons, the detractors as usual resort to their typical nonsense posts.

Your kids can't afford a $750,000 home let alone be sucked in that 'saving' 5% on a million dollar one is a 'deal'. Mine can do 6th Grade math, hopefully yours can too.
We need millions of what were referred to a starter homes, not finished mansions.
There are plenty of 'vet neighbourhoods' still existing all over the country. Not all have been torn down and redeveloped into monster homes with lawns you can mow with an electric shaver like in Vancouver.

Or do you want to claim those postwar developments were a bad idea and should've been left up to developers given massive tax breaks?

[Moonbox]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

 

https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/blog/2024/what-canada-potential-capacity-housing-construction

We do more than that but our immigration has been much higher.

Sweden's population was around 7 million at the time.  What Sweden did would be the equivalent of Canada building over 6 million homes over the next 10 years.  Even Carney's plan doesn't match that, but 500,000/year would at least have an effect. 

I think we need to abandon the illusion that platitudes about skills training, subsidies and  tax incentives are going to solve this problem.  Out of control immigration made the problem worse than it needed to be, but the status quo on house-building in Canada has been broken for a long time.  

[TreeBeard]

(Only looking at the GST cut):

 

Carney is cutting the GST on new homes for 1st time buyers.  PP’s cut will apply to speculators and investors who already own large numbers of units.  
 

Carney’s GST cut won’t have much effect as most 1st time homebuyers don’t buy new.  PP’s will have the effect of enriching rich people even more, as well as not having much effect for those 1st time homebuyers.

 

For people like me, PP’s tax cut will let me get that home with a wine cellar, rather than having to forgo it for something cheaper. 
 

 

Edited 22 hours ago by TreeBeard

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

It actually seems pretty good. 
 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/carney-double-pace-home-building-1.7497947

It sounds good.   But the subject is complex.  The Conservatives need to produce a detailed plan.  We need 5 million homes ASAP.  The Liberal plan only plans for near 500,000 per year.  That is not good enough and it is unlikely they will even get near that number.  

Maybe what we need is a joint task force made up of Liberals and Conservatives to come up with a plan that everyone can agree on.

[herbie]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The Conservatives need to produce a detailed plan. 

What? Slogans aren't enough?

[PIK]

Ont is losing landlords,because they have very few rights. Renters can quit paying in Oct and you can't get rid of them. Even when you win in court, they just keep appealing it. Could take a few yrs.

Edited 21 hours ago by PIK

[TreeBeard]

13 minutes ago, PIK said:

Ont is losing landlords,because they have very few rights

Complain to Ford.  Not federal jurisdiction. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Sweden's population was around 7 million at the time.  What Sweden did would be the equivalent of Canada building over 6 million homes over the next 10 years.  Even Carney's plan doesn't match that, but 500,000/year would at least have an effect. 

I think we need to abandon the illusion that platitudes about skills training, subsidies and  tax incentives are going to solve this problem.  Out of control immigration made the problem worse than it needed to be, but the status quo on house-building in Canada has been broken for a long time.  

I get you now. I made the bad assumption that Sweden had similar population to ours. I didn't realize they were much smaller.

Abandoning platitudes and useless habits is a must. Furthermore, when a politician makes a promise of a program it needs to be accompanied with a tracking dashboard audited by a third party, or the auditor general. 

 

That way we can follow up. People are getting much better at tracking things via numbers, however, there's no objective truth yet so you'll get clashing statistics. 

 

Also governments have to start admitting mistakes, and we have to forgive mistakes when they try something new. You get somewhere by failing a few times than succeeding.