CDN1 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 (edited) Hard to sympathize while the government is actively socially engineering the genocide of its White population. At least the Indigenous population is growing. They're in for a real shock if they believe a non-White majority Canada will continue to payout billions annually & honor those treaties in perpetuity. Edited October 9 by CDN1 Quote
Army Guy Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 1 hour ago, I am Groot said: Hang on. My understanding is the government collected closer to $45 B in GST last year. I thought it would be higher as well, but not according to the CRA website, mind you those were figures from 2021, but i doubt they would have climbed that much... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
herbie Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 1 hour ago, CDN1 said: he government is actively socially engineering the genocide of its White population Nobody gives a shit about your bigot opinion buddy. Move south and join the Klan where your voice will be heard. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 6 minutes ago, herbie said: Nobody gives a shit about your bigot opinion buddy. Move south and join the Klan where your voice will be heard. Are you saying there are no current examples of governmental racism in Canada today, I mean the liberals have said over and over again our country is full of systemic racism our culture and is full of racist ideas and practices, not just for people of color but white people as well... ..or are you saying this topic is off limits to bring it up is racist... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
herbie Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 No I didn't say that at all, because the govt is not the subject of my post, That is deflection and whataboutism to it's finest. My statement says quite clearly and specifically that if you believe there is any plot towards the genocide of the white race, then YOU ARE by dictionary definition a racist and a bigot. And I'm getting rather annoyed at the meekness of this forum to not warn or comment on the sheer number of obviously racist posts on this site. So I will point them out. Quote
CDN1 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, herbie said: Nobody gives a shit about your bigot opinion buddy. Move south and join the Klan where your voice will be heard. Sorry, denialism isn't going to work out for ya. There is nothing more terrifying to a libcuck than transparency over the racial demographics of crime, interracial violence and rape. Cuts through all the anti-White mainstream narratives and exposes the government's gaslighting. Edited October 9 by CDN1 Quote
CDN1 Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 59 minutes ago, herbie said: No I didn't say that at all, because the govt is not the subject of my post, That is deflection and whataboutism to it's finest. My statement says quite clearly and specifically that if you believe there is any plot towards the genocide of the white race, then YOU ARE by dictionary definition a racist and a bigot. And I'm getting rather annoyed at the meekness of this forum to not warn or comment on the sheer number of obviously racist posts on this site. So I will point them out. Let's check the census in 20 years if there's still a country left. Quote
Zeitgeist Posted October 9 Report Posted October 9 (edited) On 10/8/2024 at 12:33 AM, BeaverFever said: Housing is band-owned but to build and repair homes they rely on government funding which is almost always inadequate. Your last point is the heart of the problem. Not paying taxes and being dependent on government funding has cemented a culture of dependency. It’s infantilizing and casts Indigenous in the role of dependent child. There will never be enough money because money that isn’t earned isn’t valued and is easily misspent. It’s the mentality of always waiting and asking for free fish instead of doing for oneself and catching one’s own fish. It turns out that pride of ownership matters, but true ownership requires effort and having skin in the game. The most successful reservations are the ones that produce or develop their own resources and that are self-governed and self-funded, though the self-funding never really happens. It doesn’t matter what your group identity is, you get out of life what you put into it. Getting too much free stuff simply isn’t motivating. It tends to reduce people to subsistence living. No one is taking away the treaties or funding or native status, and nothing fundamentally changes, which is why most people basically shake their heads while the protesters bang their drums. Any non-Indigenous solution will be rejected by Indigenous and no Indigenous are rallying the government to roll back the dependency, so the funding and privileges continue, wrapped in a narrative of historic mistreatment, colonialism, and cultural genocide — and nothing changes. Most people have simply moved on. The courts will settle the land claims and much else will carry on by inertia. Edited October 9 by Zeitgeist Quote
herbie Posted October 10 Report Posted October 10 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said: Your last point is the heart of the problem. Not paying taxes and being dependent on government funding has cemented a culture of dependency. From the bigot blowing his dog whistle words and you're the denier not me like a 7 year old to the next repeating mythical stereotypes as if they were facts. The native guy beside you gets taxes deducted, the same as you. He may get a deduction filing, but they took his money and used it until the refund, just like you. If he buys a TV at Costco or a Teenburger, he pays the same damn taxes you do. Do you think anyone saves up all those petty receipts and claims them back like they're entitled to? Do you save up those receipts for $2.99 on Bandaids, $1 pkg of Rolaids and $10 sunglasses, claim the medical expenses and hold onto them for 7 years? I doubt it. $35 dozen hot dog buns cuz you're celiac? Hardly anyone. Sure I heard the line "I have status so I don't have to pay tax" in my store. And I'd tell them they were free to try that line at Staples. If they were in the know, they'd order a computer, I could deliver it to them and the money could change hands on the reserve to avoid tax. Only 2 or 3 did in 25 years running the store. And if they gas up on the way, unless it's an on rez station the taxes are built right in so there isn't a choice. Why the govt pays for the homes is because there's no developers, contractors or speculators on most reserves, so there's no one to run a private market with their own capital. And when the money comes from the Band, you'd continue the tired old gripe that the Band got it from the govt so therefore you seem to think you have a say. Join the rednecks here that refuse to shop at the store on the rez and happily pay double or triple at GougeOn for some of the same items from the same supplier and proudly brag to others that they only shop at the 'white man store'. They exist, they're real and they're stupid bigots all the same. Edited October 10 by herbie 1 Quote
BeaverFever Posted October 10 Report Posted October 10 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: Your last point is the heart of the problem. Not paying taxes and being dependent on government funding has cemented a culture of dependency. It’s infantilizing and casts Indigenous in the role of dependent child. There will never be enough money because money that isn’t earned isn’t valued and is easily misspent. It’s the mentality of always waiting and asking for free fish instead of doing for oneself and catching one’s own fish. It turns out that pride of ownership matters, but true ownership requires effort and having skin in the game. The most successful reservations are the ones that produce or develop their own resources and that are self-governed and self-funded, though the self-funding never really happens. It doesn’t matter what your group identity is, you get out of life what you put into it. Getting too much free stuff simply isn’t motivating. It tends to reduce people to subsistence living. No one is taking away the treaties or funding or native status, and nothing fundamentally changes, which is why most people basically shake their heads while the protesters bang their drums. Any non-Indigenous solution will be rejected by Indigenous and no Indigenous are rallying the government to roll back the dependency, so the funding and privileges continue, wrapped in a narrative of historic mistreatment, colonialism, and cultural genocide — and nothing changes. Most people have simply moved on. The courts will settle the land claims and much else will carry on by inertia. Just remember it’s the federal government who wanted to force them into dependency amd then didn’t want to spend any money on their dependants. Most indigenous leaders want an end to the Indian Act, self-government and a nation-to-nation relationship with the federal government instead of having their affairs dictated to them through the Act. However that’s inconvenient for Ottawa as it means they would have something like another province to deal with. Per ChaGPT: Indigenous leaders and communities in Canada have proposed various alternatives to the Indian Act, each aimed at achieving greater self-determination, governance, and economic independence. The primary criticism of the Indian Act is that it imposes a colonial governance structure on Indigenous peoples, limiting their autonomy and economic potential. In response, Indigenous leaders advocate for frameworks that restore self-governance and support community-driven economic development. Proposed Alternatives to the Indian Act 1. Self-Government Agreements: • Many Indigenous leaders advocate for self-government agreements, which allow communities to govern themselves outside of the Indian Act. These agreements often include jurisdiction over education, health, and land management. • The goal is to enable Indigenous governments to make decisions independently, reflecting their own laws, traditions, and governance structures. 2. Nation-to-Nation Relationships: • Leaders have called for direct, nation-to-nation relationships between Indigenous nations and the Canadian government. This approach respects Indigenous sovereignty and treats each nation as an equal partner in governance. • Such relationships would ideally include land claims settlements and fiscal arrangements that provide long-term financial support, allowing for stable governance and economic development. 3. Indigenous-Led Legislation: • Some proposals suggest repealing the Indian Act and replacing it with new Indigenous-led legislation that recognizes and enshrines Indigenous rights. • An example is the First Nations Governance Act, proposed in the early 2000s, which aimed to give First Nations more control over their affairs, although it was controversial and not universally accepted. Vision for Indigenous Communities In a post-Indian Act framework, Indigenous communities would be self-determined entities with the autonomy to design and implement their governance structures, cultural institutions, and social services. Community members envision: 1. Culturally Relevant Governance: • Governance structures would reflect traditional laws, customs, and values. Leadership might be chosen according to customary laws rather than the election process mandated by the Indian Act. • The communities would implement systems based on their specific cultural heritage, allowing for diverse forms of governance across different nations. 2. Enhanced Social and Cultural Programs: • Indigenous communities would likely prioritize language and cultural revitalization programs, as well as health services that integrate traditional practices. • Education systems could focus on Indigenous knowledge, languages, and history, which would support cultural continuity and identity. Economic Models for Indigenous Communities In terms of economic operation, many Indigenous leaders envision economies that blend traditional practices with modern economic opportunities, emphasizing sustainable development and local control over resources. 1. Resource Management and Land Rights: • Indigenous communities advocate for full control over natural resources within their territories, allowing them to benefit from forestry, fishing, mining, and other resource-based industries in a sustainable manner. • Many communities are interested in creating economic partnerships, joint ventures, and cooperatives that align with Indigenous values and environmental stewardship. 2. Local and Diverse Economies: • Economic initiatives could include agriculture, tourism, renewable energy, and small business development, with a focus on creating jobs within the community. • Local economies would aim to be diverse and resilient, reducing reliance on external funding and promoting self-sufficiency. 3. Social Enterprises and Traditional Economies: • Many communities are integrating social enterprises that provide both economic benefits and community services, such as housing, education, and healthcare. • There is also a strong interest in revitalizing traditional economic practices, such as fishing, hunting, and craftsmanship, which can generate income while preserving cultural heritage. Overall, the vision is to create vibrant, self-sufficient Indigenous communities where economic activities support cultural preservation, environmental sustainability, and improved quality of life for community members. The alternatives proposed to the Indian Act reflect a desire for autonomy, respect for Indigenous rights, and the freedom to pursue economic development in ways that align with Indigenous values and aspirations. Quote
CdnFox Posted October 10 Report Posted October 10 3 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Just remember it’s the federal government who wanted to force them into dependency amd then didn’t want to spend any money on their dependants. Most indigenous leaders want an end to the Indian Act, self-government and a nation-to-nation relationship with the federal government instead of having their affairs dictated to them through the Act. However that’s inconvenient for Ottawa as it means they would have something like another province to deal with. Per ChaGPT: Indigenous leaders and communities in Canada have proposed various alternatives to the Indian Act, each aimed at achieving greater self-determination, governance, and economic independence. The primary criticism of the Indian Act is that it imposes a colonial governance structure on Indigenous peoples, limiting their autonomy and economic potential. In response, Indigenous leaders advocate for frameworks that restore self-governance and support community-driven economic development. Proposed Alternatives to the Indian Act 1. Self-Government Agreements: • Many Indigenous leaders advocate for self-government agreements, which allow communities to govern themselves outside of the Indian Act. These agreements often include jurisdiction over education, health, and land management. • The goal is to enable Indigenous governments to make decisions independently, reflecting their own laws, traditions, and governance structures. 2. Nation-to-Nation Relationships: • Leaders have called for direct, nation-to-nation relationships between Indigenous nations and the Canadian government. This approach respects Indigenous sovereignty and treats each nation as an equal partner in governance. • Such relationships would ideally include land claims settlements and fiscal arrangements that provide long-term financial support, allowing for stable governance and economic development. 3. Indigenous-Led Legislation: • Some proposals suggest repealing the Indian Act and replacing it with new Indigenous-led legislation that recognizes and enshrines Indigenous rights. • An example is the First Nations Governance Act, proposed in the early 2000s, which aimed to give First Nations more control over their affairs, although it was controversial and not universally accepted. Vision for Indigenous Communities In a post-Indian Act framework, Indigenous communities would be self-determined entities with the autonomy to design and implement their governance structures, cultural institutions, and social services. Community members envision: 1. Culturally Relevant Governance: • Governance structures would reflect traditional laws, customs, and values. Leadership might be chosen according to customary laws rather than the election process mandated by the Indian Act. • The communities would implement systems based on their specific cultural heritage, allowing for diverse forms of governance across different nations. 2. Enhanced Social and Cultural Programs: • Indigenous communities would likely prioritize language and cultural revitalization programs, as well as health services that integrate traditional practices. • Education systems could focus on Indigenous knowledge, languages, and history, which would support cultural continuity and identity. Economic Models for Indigenous Communities In terms of economic operation, many Indigenous leaders envision economies that blend traditional practices with modern economic opportunities, emphasizing sustainable development and local control over resources. 1. Resource Management and Land Rights: • Indigenous communities advocate for full control over natural resources within their territories, allowing them to benefit from forestry, fishing, mining, and other resource-based industries in a sustainable manner. • Many communities are interested in creating economic partnerships, joint ventures, and cooperatives that align with Indigenous values and environmental stewardship. 2. Local and Diverse Economies: • Economic initiatives could include agriculture, tourism, renewable energy, and small business development, with a focus on creating jobs within the community. • Local economies would aim to be diverse and resilient, reducing reliance on external funding and promoting self-sufficiency. 3. Social Enterprises and Traditional Economies: • Many communities are integrating social enterprises that provide both economic benefits and community services, such as housing, education, and healthcare. • There is also a strong interest in revitalizing traditional economic practices, such as fishing, hunting, and craftsmanship, which can generate income while preserving cultural heritage. Overall, the vision is to create vibrant, self-sufficient Indigenous communities where economic activities support cultural preservation, environmental sustainability, and improved quality of life for community members. The alternatives proposed to the Indian Act reflect a desire for autonomy, respect for Indigenous rights, and the freedom to pursue economic development in ways that align with Indigenous values and aspirations. Literally all bullshit. So here's the problem. You started off with the conclusion that white man evil, red man victim, white man want kill red man without looking at the facts or the reality and now only look at facts that confirm your bias and distort everything else out of whack. If "whitey" had wanted the reds dead they'd be dead. End of story. The europeans fought like hell to keep them alive and healthy in the face of small pox which had come up from mexico after being spread there by barbatos after europe caught from the chinese. Actually finishing them off instead of keeping them alive and just shooting the odd survivor they found would have been child's play. The first nations, not the whites, deamanded education from the king, the king forced canada to honour that when they became a country, john A agreed to let the churches who were already providing education do it and it was voluntary at the time. The first nations are not horribly vicimized people. Bad things absolutely happened but as the saying goes, you shouldn't attribute to malice that which is easily explained by incompetence. What the gov't IS guilty of is a complete failure and lack of oversight. They dumped it on the church and turned a blind eye. But it was not malice, it was not genocide, it was not some attempt to kill them. And honestly many other people suffered the same. Check out the conditions in boarding schools for immigrants, or the conditions orphans lived in even up to the 50's and 60's. ALmost identical. Get over yourself. You do the first nations NO favour by perpetuating the victimhood lie. 1 Quote
eyeball Posted October 10 Report Posted October 10 14 hours ago, BeaverFever said: Just remember it’s the federal government who wanted to force them into dependency amd then didn’t want to spend any money on their dependants. Don't forget who's ultimately accountable for our governments actions or inaction as is all to often the case Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
I am Groot Posted October 10 Author Report Posted October 10 21 hours ago, Army Guy said: I thought it would be higher as well, but not according to the CRA website, mind you those were figures from 2021, but i doubt they would have climbed that much... Everything I've found from the government's budget and revenue sites puts it closer to $45b. Though I admit it's hard to get clarity from ANY Canadian government websites, which seem to be designed with maximum confusion and obfuscation in mind. Generlaly, I can find out basic information about the US government quickly and easily. Those words can never be applied to the Canadian government websites. 1 Quote
Army Guy Posted October 10 Report Posted October 10 17 minutes ago, I am Groot said: Everything I've found from the government's budget and revenue sites puts it closer to $45b. Though I admit it's hard to get clarity from ANY Canadian government websites, which seem to be designed with maximum confusion and obfuscation in mind. Generlaly, I can find out basic information about the US government quickly and easily. Those words can never be applied to the Canadian government websites. shoot me a source so i can read it, i wonder why CRA is being so cryptic about all of it on the source i provided ... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
BeaverFever Posted October 11 Report Posted October 11 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: The europeans fought like hell to keep them alive and healthy in the face of small pox which had come up from mexico after being spread there by barbatos after europe caught from the chinese. The smallpox virus has been present in the middle east, North Africa and India for thousands of years and eventually to china HOWEVER and is believed to have entered Europe from the Middle East, not china, no later than medieval times although some believe much earlier. Those who suggest the later arrival in Europe believe it was likely brought from the Middle East by returning crusaders. The smallpox virus did not spread to Canadian indigenous people from Mexico. By the age of exploration it was was widely prevalent across Europe and came to this part of the continent from English and French settlers and took effect. effects from the time the very first settlers arrived in the 16th century Your comment that Europeans “fought like hell to keep them alive and healthy” is another of you spurious evidence-free claims. The fact that the indigenous population plummeted by 90% beginning in the 16th century soon after English and French first arrived 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: So here's the problem. You started off with the conclusion that white man evil, red man victim, white man want kill red man without looking at the facts or the reality and now only look at facts that confirm your bias and distort everything else out of whack. Sorry, you are the one with narrative red man evil, white man victim. My narrative is that all human civilizations are naturally inclined to victimize any and all groups who are weaker than them. And they are also inclined to claim that they are good and victims while doing so. In this case, indigenous people were the weaker group. You conservatives are the ones who insist on clinging to unrealistic and simplistic hero narratives where “your group” or the closest group to your, is always the good guy: so for a typical anglo-American conservative, if a story is story about indigenous vs French, the French are the good guys and indigenous are the bad guys. If a story is about the French vs the English, now the English are the good guys and the French are the bad guys. If its about the English against the Americans now the English are the bad guys and the Americans are the good guys. It’s important for folks like you to believe that every one of your ancestors going back to Adam and Eve were the greatest most noble people on the planet but that’s a childish way of thinking that adults should move away from. Oh and you’ve mad abundantly clear on this topic that you don’t have ANY facts, just more of your zero-evidence claims that you simply WISH to be true. 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: The first nations, not the whites, deamanded education from the king, the king forced canada to honour that when they became a country, john A agreed to let the churches who were already providing education do it and it was voluntary at the time. LMAO what is thid total BS you’re spouting? Like seriously you’re pulling this bullshit out of your ass. It’s bad enough when you guys are repeating fake news thats circulating out there in MAGAverse but when you’re making it up yourself it’s just like a toothache that won’t go away. What would indigenous farmers and hunter-gatherers demand education for? I am also absolutely dying to know exactly which “king” allegedly “forced” Canada to pass the Indian Act and implement the residential school system right in the middle of Queen Victoria’s reign. 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: The first nations are not horribly vicimized people. Bad things absolutely happened but as the saying goes, you shouldn't attribute to malice that which is easily explained by incompetence. What the gov't IS guilty of is a complete failure and lack of oversight. They dumped it on the church and turned a blind eye. But it was not malice, it was not genocide, it was not some attempt to kill them. Yes they were horribly victimized. Genocide doesn’t just mean killing off a group it can also mean forced assimilation of a group through harm and mistreatment. The moto of the residential school system was literally “Kill the Indian in the Child” 18 hours ago, CdnFox said: And honestly many other people suffered the same. Check out the conditions in boarding schools for immigrants, or the conditions orphans lived in even up to the 50's and 60's. ALmost identical. False. The death rates in indigenous schools from every cause whether disease, malnutrition, accidents etc were far higher. There was zero accountability. In many cases the parents weren’t even informed or the death wasn’t even properly recorded or recorded at all. Parents were not allowed to leave their reserve to collect their bodies or inquire. Inquiries to schools, religious orders and Indian Agents went ignored. Quote
CdnFox Posted October 11 Report Posted October 11 14 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: The smallpox virus has been present in the middle east, North Africa and India for thousands of years and eventually to china HOWEVER and is believed to have entered Europe from the Middle East, not china, no later than medieval times although some believe much earlier. Those who suggest the later arrival in Europe believe it was likely brought from the Middle East by returning crusaders. Not my understanding of the situation but regardless, the original source was not Europe. Quote The smallpox virus did not spread to Canadian indigenous people from Mexico. By the age of exploration it was was widely prevalent across Europe and came to this part of the continent from English and French settlers and took effect. effects from the time the very first settlers arrived in the 16th century Nope pure fiction Quote Your comment that Europeans “fought like hell to keep them alive and healthy” is another of you spurious evidence-free claims. The fact that the indigenous population plummeted by 90% beginning in the 16th century soon after English and French first arrived It's well documented. Read a book Quote Sorry, you are the one with narrative red man evil, white man victim. No. My narrative is that neither of them are evil or victims. My narrative isn't built on hatred and lies the way yours is Quote You conservatives are the ones who insist on clinging to unrealistic and simplistic hero narratives where “your group” or the closest group to your, is always the good guy: No that's just more of your own internalized justification for your hatred. Generally speaking conservatives aren't big fans of heroes or villains, generally speaking their big fans of personal responsibility and personal accountability The first nations are largely responsible for the circumstances they find themselves in today. Without a doubt things happened that were terrible but impacted the course of their history as is the case with just about every ethnic group ever anywhere in this planet. But the responsibility is theirs to correct that and move forward and they have failed Quote Oh and you’ve mad abundantly clear on this topic that you don’t have ANY facts, just more of your zero-evidence claims that you simply WISH to be true. Your denial of the facts doesn't stop them from being facts Quote LMAO what is thid total BS you’re spouting? Like seriously you’re pulling this bullshit out of your ass. It’s bad enough when you guys are repeating fake news thats circulating out there in MAGAverse but when you’re making it up yourself it’s just like a toothache that won’t go away. What would indigenous farmers and hunter-gatherers demand education for? I am also absolutely dying to know exactly which “king” allegedly “forced” Canada to pass the Indian Act and implement the residential school system right in the middle of Queen Victoria’s reign. If you don't know your history I can't help you. I never mentioned the indian act. once again you have to lie to make your point. But there were SEVERAL treaties promising educaton before canada became a nation, and immediately when we did become a nation the king required that the new colony negotiate with the first nations and include education https://journals.sfu.ca/cje/index.php/cje-rce/article/download/2798/2098/0 Sorry kiddo. Everything i've said is true. Y Quote Yes they were horribly victimized. Nope. Victimized, sure. And mistreated in many cases, sometimes intentionally and sometimes by accident born of the arrogant belief that british culture was the very best way to live and all would want it if they could. Quote False. The death rates in indigenous schools from every cause whether disease, malnutrition, accidents etc were far higher. Nope. Quote There was zero accountability. In many cases the parents weren’t even informed or the death wasn’t even properly recorded or recorded at all. true. well... very poorly recorded. As far as we know they were recorded but often with next to no detail. Quote Parents were not allowed to leave their reserve to collect their bodies or inquire. Bullshit. Quote Inquiries to schools, religious orders and Indian Agents went ignored. true. And that was outrageously wrong. Side note it wasn't just a problem with first nations, it was a problem with many things, which doesn't make the first nations situation even a tiny bit less unacceptable there is some misinformation about this. For example it is often said that the government did very little to return the bodies. The vast vast vast majority of deaths were to tuberculosis and tuberculosis patients remain contagious for quite a while after they die. In a world where horse and buggy was still the common method of transportation and certainly no Refrigeration capacity, it was quite common for tuberculosis victims to be buried at the closest cemetery and get them in the ground and out of the way of the still healthy people. The first nations were mistreated. There's no need to sugarcoat it or pretend otherwise, they were mistreated. But there was no genocide and they have all the resources in the universe to build a great life for themselves and to move forward and have had so for generations now. What really kills me is you bring up absolutely bullshit false crap and completely skip over things that were truly horrific such as the experiments in the 40s and 50's in sask Where with actual government approval children were starved in the residential schools to see the effect that malnutrition would have on them. Like that's some Nazi level human experimentation and you gloss right over that and try to claim that being forced to learn is genocide. I honestly will never understand the left Quote
eyeball Posted October 11 Report Posted October 11 14 hours ago, CdnFox said: But the responsibility is theirs to correct that and move forward and they have failed They seem to be succeeding quite nicely if court rulings treaties and reparations are any indication. Underscored by the growing sense and angst amongst conservatives that 'we're' losing. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
CdnFox Posted October 11 Report Posted October 11 1 hour ago, eyeball said: They seem to be succeeding quite nicely if court rulings treaties and reparations are any indication. Well according to them those snow indication at all. They're still horribly oppressed, living terrible lives, frought with social problems in their communities such as rape alcoholism severe drug abuse and poverty And it's all Whitey's fault So there you go Quote
Zeitgeist Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 (edited) On 10/9/2024 at 8:39 PM, herbie said: From the bigot blowing his dog whistle words and you're the denier not me like a 7 year old to the next repeating mythical stereotypes as if they were facts. The native guy beside you gets taxes deducted, the same as you. He may get a deduction filing, but they took his money and used it until the refund, just like you. If he buys a TV at Costco or a Teenburger, he pays the same damn taxes you do. Do you think anyone saves up all those petty receipts and claims them back like they're entitled to? Do you save up those receipts for $2.99 on Bandaids, $1 pkg of Rolaids and $10 sunglasses, claim the medical expenses and hold onto them for 7 years? I doubt it. $35 dozen hot dog buns cuz you're celiac? Hardly anyone. Sure I heard the line "I have status so I don't have to pay tax" in my store. And I'd tell them they were free to try that line at Staples. If they were in the know, they'd order a computer, I could deliver it to them and the money could change hands on the reserve to avoid tax. Only 2 or 3 did in 25 years running the store. And if they gas up on the way, unless it's an on rez station the taxes are built right in so there isn't a choice. Why the govt pays for the homes is because there's no developers, contractors or speculators on most reserves, so there's no one to run a private market with their own capital. And when the money comes from the Band, you'd continue the tired old gripe that the Band got it from the govt so therefore you seem to think you have a say. Join the rednecks here that refuse to shop at the store on the rez and happily pay double or triple at GougeOn for some of the same items from the same supplier and proudly brag to others that they only shop at the 'white man store'. They exist, they're real and they're stupid bigots all the same. Fake, reckless, weak, and dishonest. You refuse to see or address reality. Oh, and you deflect responsibility by blaming people who call BS on your nonsense. Edited October 13 by Zeitgeist 1 Quote
ExFlyer Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 On 10/9/2024 at 3:17 PM, Army Guy said: I thought it would be higher as well, but not according to the CRA website, mind you those were figures from 2021, but i doubt they would have climbed that much... The feds do not get all the GST (hst). Some of it goes to the Provinces... it is different for every Province. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 On 10/11/2024 at 1:54 PM, CdnFox said: Well according to them those snow indication at all. They're still horribly oppressed, living terrible lives, frought with social problems in their communities such as rape alcoholism severe drug abuse and poverty And it's all Whitey's fault So there you go Hmmm, seems lie the indigenous society has a huge problem. They have all the rights and opportunities and advantages that every other Canadian has. Social problems on their "reserves" and communities are entirely their own issues and fault. 1 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Zeitgeist Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 On 10/9/2024 at 10:27 PM, BeaverFever said: Just remember it’s the federal government who wanted to force them into dependency amd then didn’t want to spend any money on their dependants. Most indigenous leaders want an end to the Indian Act, self-government and a nation-to-nation relationship with the federal government instead of having their affairs dictated to them through the Act. However that’s inconvenient for Ottawa as it means they would have something like another province to deal with. Per ChaGPT: Indigenous leaders and communities in Canada have proposed various alternatives to the Indian Act, each aimed at achieving greater self-determination, governance, and economic independence. The primary criticism of the Indian Act is that it imposes a colonial governance structure on Indigenous peoples, limiting their autonomy and economic potential. In response, Indigenous leaders advocate for frameworks that restore self-governance and support community-driven economic development. Proposed Alternatives to the Indian Act 1. Self-Government Agreements: • Many Indigenous leaders advocate for self-government agreements, which allow communities to govern themselves outside of the Indian Act. These agreements often include jurisdiction over education, health, and land management. • The goal is to enable Indigenous governments to make decisions independently, reflecting their own laws, traditions, and governance structures. 2. Nation-to-Nation Relationships: • Leaders have called for direct, nation-to-nation relationships between Indigenous nations and the Canadian government. This approach respects Indigenous sovereignty and treats each nation as an equal partner in governance. • Such relationships would ideally include land claims settlements and fiscal arrangements that provide long-term financial support, allowing for stable governance and economic development. 3. Indigenous-Led Legislation: • Some proposals suggest repealing the Indian Act and replacing it with new Indigenous-led legislation that recognizes and enshrines Indigenous rights. • An example is the First Nations Governance Act, proposed in the early 2000s, which aimed to give First Nations more control over their affairs, although it was controversial and not universally accepted. Vision for Indigenous Communities In a post-Indian Act framework, Indigenous communities would be self-determined entities with the autonomy to design and implement their governance structures, cultural institutions, and social services. Community members envision: 1. Culturally Relevant Governance: • Governance structures would reflect traditional laws, customs, and values. Leadership might be chosen according to customary laws rather than the election process mandated by the Indian Act. • The communities would implement systems based on their specific cultural heritage, allowing for diverse forms of governance across different nations. 2. Enhanced Social and Cultural Programs: • Indigenous communities would likely prioritize language and cultural revitalization programs, as well as health services that integrate traditional practices. • Education systems could focus on Indigenous knowledge, languages, and history, which would support cultural continuity and identity. Economic Models for Indigenous Communities In terms of economic operation, many Indigenous leaders envision economies that blend traditional practices with modern economic opportunities, emphasizing sustainable development and local control over resources. 1. Resource Management and Land Rights: • Indigenous communities advocate for full control over natural resources within their territories, allowing them to benefit from forestry, fishing, mining, and other resource-based industries in a sustainable manner. • Many communities are interested in creating economic partnerships, joint ventures, and cooperatives that align with Indigenous values and environmental stewardship. 2. Local and Diverse Economies: • Economic initiatives could include agriculture, tourism, renewable energy, and small business development, with a focus on creating jobs within the community. • Local economies would aim to be diverse and resilient, reducing reliance on external funding and promoting self-sufficiency. 3. Social Enterprises and Traditional Economies: • Many communities are integrating social enterprises that provide both economic benefits and community services, such as housing, education, and healthcare. • There is also a strong interest in revitalizing traditional economic practices, such as fishing, hunting, and craftsmanship, which can generate income while preserving cultural heritage. Overall, the vision is to create vibrant, self-sufficient Indigenous communities where economic activities support cultural preservation, environmental sustainability, and improved quality of life for community members. The alternatives proposed to the Indian Act reflect a desire for autonomy, respect for Indigenous rights, and the freedom to pursue economic development in ways that align with Indigenous values and aspirations. True self- governance means paying your own bills. Quote
CdnFox Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Hmmm, seems lie the indigenous society has a huge problem. They have all the rights and opportunities and advantages that every other Canadian has. Social problems on their "reserves" and communities are entirely their own issues and fault. What is truly astounding to me is that they seem to genuinely believe that most of their problems are the fault of the Canadian government and it's involvement in their lives. While simultaneously demanding that this very same government solve all their problems by getting involved in their lives. It's literally like an alcoholic deciding that booze is ruining his life, but maybe another bottle will fix it. If I honestly believed that the government had messed me around as much as they believed the government has messed them around, the absolute last thing I would be even remotely interested in is having the government involved in a single damn thing I did. Yet this seems to be there default solution 2 Quote
ExFlyer Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 31 minutes ago, CdnFox said: What is truly astounding to me is that they seem to genuinely believe that most of their problems are the fault of the Canadian government and it's involvement in their lives. While simultaneously demanding that this very same government solve all their problems by getting involved in their lives. It's literally like an alcoholic deciding that booze is ruining his life, but maybe another bottle will fix it. If I honestly believed that the government had messed me around as much as they believed the government has messed them around, the absolute last thing I would be even remotely interested in is having the government involved in a single damn thing I did. Yet this seems to be there default solution Like I have said many times on this forum and especially to eyeball, something of swords and black dog, the indigenous situation is something that is totally theirs. They are to blame for the situation they are in. They have all the opportinities to live as the rest of Canadians but choose not to and decided to become a welfare society. The only way they will get better is if we cut them off entirely and they have no one to rely on except themselves. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
eyeball Posted October 13 Report Posted October 13 8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: The only way they will get better is if we cut them off entirely and they have no one to rely on except themselves. So put indians back in their place? Good luck with that especially on the basis of vote/taxpayer fed upness. I can't think of a better gauntlet to throw down in front of fed up activists. Quote A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.
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