The real reason for climate change alarmism is to destroy Capitalism

[Michael Hardner]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  I assume for tax revenue and votes.

2. The Liberal Party tried to access the bank account info of hundreds of thousands of random Canadians without their consent "to study spending habits".  They brought back the legally mandatory long-form census after the Harper gov killed it.  They tracked every Canadian via their cell phone location data during COVID without their knowledge or consent.  They mandated COVID vaccines for federal employees.

3. You probably have no issue with any of those things, unless I'm mistaken?  Population control over civil liberties.

4. There is no equivalency with the CPC from what I remember.  .

1. But... They want population control too? ?

2. I expect that none of these, if true, would make a difference in an election.

3. Oh, you're not talking about population NUMBERS but controlling the PEOPLE.  Well,ok, but Harper passed the surveillance act to combat terrorism.

Do I have an issue?  That's a separate question.  We're talking about how Trudeau can be generally assessed, not what I think.

4. The big move, again, was Harper's security act which allowed for voice to text for phone calls,and mass scanning if I recall.  I'll tell you that I was and am in favour .  The chicken littles thought Harper would be arresting everyone but I would rather have that level of threat monitoring.

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. But... They want population control too? ?

2. I expect that none of these, if true, would make a difference in an election.

3. Oh, you're not talking about population NUMBERS but controlling the PEOPLE.  Well,ok, but Harper passed the surveillance act to combat terrorism.

Do I have an issue?  That's a separate question.  We're talking about how Trudeau can be generally assessed, not what I think.

4. The big move, again, was Harper's security act which allowed for voice to text for phone calls,and mass scanning if I recall.  I'll tell you that I was and am in favour .  The chicken littles thought Harper would be arresting everyone but I would rather have that level of threat monitoring.

2.  The topic is population control, not about elections.  They are all true and easily google-able.

3.   What is "the surveillance act"?  Please name the actual legislation.

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  The topic is population control, not about elections.  They are all true and easily google-able.

2.   What is "the surveillance act"?  Please name the actual legislation.

1. 'population control ' generally means keeping a low population growth versus 'controlling the population', which I finally gathered what you meant.  All good.

2. I think that this is the one.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-terrorism_Act,_2015

 

I will need to check in later to verify.

[eyeball]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

'population control ' generally means keeping a low population growth versus 'controlling the population',

A low population growth means low economic growth which is probably and therefore alarmingly equivalent to wanting to destroy capitalism.

Both sides need to control the population to have their respective views accepted.

[Zeitgeist]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Calling me a loonie is a conspiracy theory.

 

I don't have to justify the hours I have spent on here talking to the wall that is the conspiracy theory set.

Poilievre, Harper and so on praised the WEF in the past... It's pretty clear that PP is being disingenuous at best when he exploits this conspiracy.

It's already been debunked on here, and so I am not obliged to give it respect.  It's ridiculous.

As for accusing me of being a leftist, I haven't seen a cogent argument on that.

So... You want to lead a peaceful revolt against the rich and powerful?

 

What does this make you then.  Sounds like the Communist Manifesto to me.

No it hasn’t been debunked at all.  In fact it’s been reinforced. You can’t get away with writing off opinions you don’t like as conspiracy theories and calling something “debunked” without evidence.

You’re not alone in your denial though. I can’t believe that at one time I took seriously Canadian MSM as non-partisan. Another laugh is “The Canadian Press”.  It presents itself as though all Canadian journalists share the same opinion, the correct and factual one.  What a delusion.  

[Michael Hardner]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

1.  In fact it’s been reinforced.

2. You can’t get away with writing off opinions you don’t like as conspiracy theories and calling something “debunked” without evidence.

1. Why have conservatives, even Poilievre and Bernier, supported it in the past then?  How is it an issue when innumerable other special interests and business lobbies use the same tactics? Why do opponents of the WEF always quote out of context, and make it sound so insidious? 

The answer is that this is just another institution operating in the neoliberal sphere, and it has been manipulated you sound like a Hollywood movie type conspiracy, to appeal to people who have no clue how the world works.  

I especially note that people who don't believe in climate change like to cite climate change initiatives by this group.  

It's a conspiracy theory, and it's very existence is a sign of a broken public sphere, in which movies like V for Vendetta and The Matrix are more influential than Adam Smith.

2. The evidence is past threads on here, which I have participated in.  I alone get to decide when I have spent enough time on the subject, and concluded that it's a conspiracy theory.

 

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Why have conservatives, even Poilievre and Bernier, supported it in the past then?  How is it an issue when innumerable other special interests and business lobbies use the same tactics? Why do opponents of the WEF always quote out of context, and make it sound so insidious? 

The answer is that this is just another institution operating in the neoliberal sphere, and it has been manipulated you sound like a Hollywood movie type conspiracy, to appeal to people who have no clue how the world works.  

I especially note that people who don't believe in climate change like to cite climate change initiatives by this group.  

It's a conspiracy theory, and it's very existence is a sign of a broken public sphere, in which movies like V for Vendetta and The Matrix are more influential than Adam Smith.

2. The evidence is past threads on here, which I have participated in.  I alone get to decide when I have spent enough time on the subject, and concluded that it's a conspiracy theory.

 

The WEF is where the stakeholder capitalist elites work with the most gullible and power hungry political leaders to cook up their latest ESG (Environment, Social, Government) plans for politicians to take home and implement.  WEF, WHO, various UN panels on climate change, Bildenberger Group, and other unaccountable, unelected organizations have a major influence on our domestic affairs.  Is some of this good?  We don’t know because we’re not part of the discussion.  You didn’t get an invite to Davos.  No private jet is waiting for us on the tarmac.  Klauss Schwab said he has penetrated over half our Cabinet.  Freeland is a trustee at the WEF.  Yes Liberals and Conservatives and politicians around the world have been involved for years and in the past the stakes didn’t seem as high or as undemocratic.  Polievre is right to keep ministers from attending.  We didn’t elect Dr. No (Schwab).

Schwab and Trudeau talked about the pandemic being an opportunity and said we can’t go back to living how we used to.  Really?

Do you deny the existence of The Great Reset?

Do you deny that digital ID is very much a central WEF idea?

Do you deny that digital central bank currency and digital ID provide great opportunities for increased government control over human behaviour, as what you can purchase and your level of spending can be controlled?

Do you deny that Chinese digital social credit systems exist?

Do you deny that our government froze the bank accounts of people who protested government policies during the Freedom Convoy (on top of declaring a form of martial law that made protests in the city of the federal government illegal)?

Do you think that all of this is made up conspiracy nonsense or do you think people have at least some valid reasons to be concerned about government accountability to our constitution and government’s relationship with unaccountable international organizations?

In my opinion you’re an elitist sell out who makes excuses for government overreach and deals with his own guilt by supporting radical left causes.  You’re a Champaign Socialist.  “Rules for thee but not for me.  I know what’s best for humanity, but thankfully due to my privilege, I won’t be impacted significantly by the added costs and controls.  I’m old anyway, so I’m alright Jack.”

 I realize that the paragraph above is judgemental and possibly quite unfair.  I hope it’s not an accurate representation of you.  However, it’s the impression you make on me.  I’m sure I make unfavourable impressions on you.  

Edited August 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The WEF is where the stakeholder capitalist elites work with the most gullible and power hungry political leaders to cook up their latest ESG (Environment, Social, Government) plans for politicians to take home and implement.  WEF, WHO, various UN panels on climate change, Bildenberger Group, and other unaccountable, unelected organizations have a major influence on our domestic affairs.  Is some of this good?  We don’t know because we’re not part of the discussion.  You didn’t get an invite to Davos.  No private jet is waiting for us on the tarmac.  Klauss Schwab said he has penetrated over half our Cabinet.  Freeland is a trustee at the WEF.  Yes Liberals and Conservatives and politicians around the world have been involved for years and in the past the stakes didn’t seem as high or as undemocratic.  Polievre is right to keep ministers from attending.  We didn’t elect Dr. No (Schwab).

Schwab and Trudeau talked about the pandemic being an opportunity and said we can’t go back to living how we used to.  Really?

Do you deny the existence of The Great Reset?

Do you deny that digital ID is very much a central WEF idea?

Do you deny that digital central bank currency and digital ID provide great opportunities for increased government control over human behaviour, as what you can purchase and your level of spending can be controlled?

Do you deny that Chinese digital social credit systems exist?

Do you deny that our government froze the bank accounts of people who protested government policies during the Freedom Convoy (on top of declaring a form of martial law that made protests in the city of the federal government illegal)?

Do you think that all of this is made up conspiracy nonsense or do you think people have at least some valid reasons to be concerned about government accountability to our constitution and government’s relationship with unaccountable international organizations?

In my opinion you’re an elitist sell out who makes excuses for government overreach and deals with his own guilt by supporting radical left causes.  You’re a Champaign Socialist.  “Rules for thee but not for me.  I know what’s best for humanity, but thankfully due to my privilege, I won’t be impacted significantly by the added costs and controls.  I’m old anyway, so I’m alright Jack.”

 I realize that the paragraph above is judgemental and possibly quite unfair.  I hope it’s not an accurate representation of you.  However, it’s the impression you make on me.  I’m sure I make unfavourable impressions on you.  

I'm conservative.  Yes, I think that this is largely made up and trumped up nonsense.  Digital ID?  The Great Reset?  These are just conspiracy catch phrases.  They don't point to anything significant. They are offhand phrases that only resonate with people who believe Hollywood Conspiracy Thrillers are real 

--

I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this, but correct me if you actually explained why this is somehow worse than other lobbying, and why Poilievre, Harper, and Bernier were all ok with the WEF until it started being used as a populist scarecrow?

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm conservative. 

AHAAAHAHHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!!!!!!!!

Sorry..l (chuckle!)... Gets me every time he says it

Mike - you are not a conservative. You are not even in the ballpark. You're a left wing socialist-lite who's ashamed to say it. That's all.

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'm conservative.  Yes, I think that this is largely made up and trumped up nonsense.  Digital ID?  The Great Reset?  These are just conspiracy catch phrases.  They don't point to anything significant. They are offhand phrases that only resonate with people who believe Hollywood Conspiracy Thrillers are real 

--

I'm not going to spend a ton of time on this, but correct me if you actually explained why this is somehow worse than other lobbying, and why Poilievre, Harper, and Bernier were all ok with the WEF until it started being used as a populist scarecrow?

 

But The Great Reset is a WEF publication.  It includes a number of plans with 2030 as the date of implementation, including for digital ID.  Dismissing all of that is reckless denial. It only has traction if governments implement it.

 I agree that until a few years ago these international influencers seemed much more innocuous or less influential, but the pandemic showed the efficiency of unaccountable top-down control and how “crises” could be used to justify all sorts of top-down schemes with no direct relationship to the crises.  We began to see other directives that wouldn’t have gained much traction if not for the crises.  Remember how 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act and heavier security and surveillance to “keep us safe”?

ESG and stakeholder capitalism (a form of fascism basically) weren’t things under Harper.  We have reasons to be seriously concerned about our government’s involvement with unaccountable international organizations.  It’s not going away in the midst of the “climate crisis” and “Russian aggression”. We must think critically or risk losing what is most valuable about liberal-democracy.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

 You're a left wing socialist-lite who's ashamed to say it. That's all.

Evidence?

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

1. But The Great Reset is a WEF publication.  It includes a number of plans with 2030 as the date of implementation, including for digital ID.  Dismissing all of that is reckless denial. It only has traction if governments implement it.

1. Right.  It's not binding, and not happy.  I already explained why this is not significant.

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

2. Remember how 9/11 brought us the Patriot Act and heavier security and surveillance to “keep us safe”?

1. The Canadian version was C-51 I think.  Do you know that we are not safer because of the extra powers granted to CSIS?  From what I recall it's a lot harder to coordinate plots after C-51.

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

3. ESG and stakeholder capitalism (a form of fascism basically) weren’t things under Harper.  We have reasons to be seriously concerned about our government’s involvement with unaccountable international organizations.  It’s not going away in the midst of the “climate crisis” and “Russian aggression”. We must think critically or risk losing what is most valuable about liberal-democracy.

3. What the hell is Stakeholder Capitalism?  They are all capitalist supporters and so whatever you're talking about doesn't seem to apply to the three leaders I mentioned.

There's always lobbying and this is not any different, except they also espouse environmental causes...

Good enough.

[CdnFox]

22 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Evidence?

Your words.

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Right.  It's not binding, and not happy.  I already explained why this is not significant.

1. The Canadian version was C-51 I think.  Do you know that we are not safer because of the extra powers granted to CSIS?  From what I recall it's a lot harder to coordinate plots after C-51.

3. What the hell is Stakeholder Capitalism?  They are all capitalist supporters and so whatever you're talking about doesn't seem to apply to the three leaders I mentioned.

There's always lobbying and this is not any different, except they also espouse environmental causes...

Good enough.

I’ve explained these concepts before and you’re able to Google like everyone else.  

[Aristides]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No it hasn’t been debunked at all.  In fact it’s been reinforced. You can’t get away with writing off opinions you don’t like as conspiracy theories and calling something “debunked” without evidence.

You’re not alone in your denial though. I can’t believe that at one time I took seriously Canadian MSM as non-partisan. Another laugh is “The Canadian Press”.  It presents itself as though all Canadian journalists share the same opinion, the correct and factual one.  What a delusion.  

Canadian Press is a brand name like Canadian Tire. Nothing more.

[Michael Hardner]

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Your words.

So nothing specific, just your say-so...

[CdnFox]

11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So nothing specific, just your say-so...

Tonnes of specifics - so many its best just summarized as your words. And not just my opinion, as you're well aware many others have laughed at your ridiculous claim that you're conservative as well.

It would be like Stalin claiming to be a devout believer in the power of the free market  

So, do you have any proof you're a conservative? 

[Deluge]

On 8/10/2023 at 3:44 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

So, the prospect of the greatest mass extinction since the Permian isn’t a concern to you.

Nope. 

On 8/10/2023 at 10:11 PM, herbie said:

And when the Wall St. imperialists fall, those most addicted to the opiate of the masses will be the first to be shot, comrade.

Woketards will go down first. 

[Goddess]

 

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Expand  

I'm conservative.  Yes, I think that this is largely made up and trumped up nonsense.  Digital ID?  The Great Reset?  These are just conspiracy catch phrases. 

 

 

In 2012, Freeland wrote this book: “Plutocrats: The Rise of the New Global Super Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else”.

 

Where do the super-rich learn to be plutocrats? According to Freeland, it is “the international conference circuit.” The “best known of these events,” she tells us, “is the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.” An invitation to Davos “marks an aspiring plutocrat’s arrival on the international scene.”

 

The book’s central focus is how plutocrats — the super-elites who sit at the top of the economic, political and social pyramid — attempt, and often succeed, in turning the rules of the game in their favour, by shaping government policy and public opinion.

 

Rupa Subramanya: The best critique of the World Economic Forum came from Chrystia Freeland herself | National Post

Freeland points out that Davos is the playground where the plutocrats hash out ideas with other members of the powerful elite, from prime ministers and presidents, to celebrities, bankers, academics and others who help shape public opinion and guide public policy in a direction that’s congenial to the plutocrats’ interests.

 

Responding to such critiques, Monck told the CBC that Davos is about exchanging ideas, not setting policy. This is about as disingenuous as it gets. No serious critique of the WEF has ever alleged that somehow it uses mind-altering hypnosis to get world leaders to do what it wants. Rather, a forum for exchanging ideas in a congenial environment serves as a laboratory for policy ideas that can be tested when the assorted worthies return to their home countries.

I think Freeland decided, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Goddess said:

 

 

 

In 2012, Freeland wrote this book: “Plutocrats: The Rise of the New Global Super Rich and the Fall of Everyone Else”.

 

Where do the super-rich learn to be plutocrats? According to Freeland, it is “the international conference circuit.” The “best known of these events,” she tells us, “is the World Economic Forum’s annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland.” An invitation to Davos “marks an aspiring plutocrat’s arrival on the international scene.”

 

The book’s central focus is how plutocrats — the super-elites who sit at the top of the economic, political and social pyramid — attempt, and often succeed, in turning the rules of the game in their favour, by shaping government policy and public opinion.

 

Rupa Subramanya: The best critique of the World Economic Forum came from Chrystia Freeland herself | National Post

Freeland points out that Davos is the playground where the plutocrats hash out ideas with other members of the powerful elite, from prime ministers and presidents, to celebrities, bankers, academics and others who help shape public opinion and guide public policy in a direction that’s congenial to the plutocrats’ interests.

 

Responding to such critiques, Monck told the CBC that Davos is about exchanging ideas, not setting policy. This is about as disingenuous as it gets. No serious critique of the WEF has ever alleged that somehow it uses mind-altering hypnosis to get world leaders to do what it wants. Rather, a forum for exchanging ideas in a congenial environment serves as a laboratory for policy ideas that can be tested when the assorted worthies return to their home countries.

I think Freeland decided, "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

You’re exactly right.  Freeland joined the club and knew exactly what she’d signed up for.  We all saw her champ at the bit to freeze banks accounts during the Freedom Convoy.  We also know that her personal Ukrainian nationalist animus is supporting Canada’s multi-billion dollar support of Zelensky. Freeland’s personal journey to becoming a total sell-out is another story, however.

Anyone who sincerely wants to know why a lot of strange agendas are being pushed that are at odds with Canadian interests need look no further than organizations like the WEF and its darlings in national governments.

Identity politics (DEI industrial complex), oppressive agricultural policies against Dutch farmers and other totalitarian health and climate policies don’t get dreamed up in Trudeau’s garage. They are disseminated from unaccountable international think tanks and NGO’s. 

The carrot is very alluring for the ambitious: wining and dining among the elites in mountain retreats, membership status, access to the exclusive. One cannot serve two masters. Either our politicians serve the people who elected them or other entities.

I understand that some of this phenomena is the natural creep that happens when a party has been in power too long, but the current Liberals are the ultimate virtue signalling phoneys. I’m not especially hopeful that the majority of Canadians see the hypocrisy either. I don’t think they see the extent of manipulation from foreign powers. I won’t even get into the business of China’s interference, the Sinovax fail, China’s outsized influence on the WHO and its take/spin on the origins of Covid.

Most Canadians are too busy, too unaware, too uninterested, and too charmed by the slick jet setting images to take much of a stand. Many people don’t want to believe what’s happening. Hardner’s mentality is the norm.

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

1. Tonnes of specifics 

2. So, do you have any proof you're a conservative? 

1. And yet you can't seem to cite any.

2. My support for institutions, the rule of law, education and the public sphere.  And when I bring it up, people counter with assertions that there are large conspiracies afoot.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. And yet you can't seem to cite any.

 

Of course i can. I Just dont.  Why would i pander to a liberal troll? Every position you take almost without exception is left of center - often VERY left of center.

Quote

2. My support for institutions, the rule of law, education and the public sphere.  And when I bring it up, people counter with assertions that there are large conspiracies afoot.

So nothing then. Well we knew that. You're very obviously a liberal. Hell if YOU can't even provide evidence you're not then there you go.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

My support for institutions, the rule of law, education and the public sphere.  And when I bring it up, people counter with assertions that there are large conspiracies afoot.

Those are not uniquely conservative tenets. Liberals don't support institutions, rule of law, education and etc? I think they do, or certainly they used to. But the people who call themselves liberals now have taken themselves over a cliff. And you are not willing to follow them there, so you call yourself a conservative to hide the truth of what you are. Out of shame that we may find out what you people have done- Unleashed the liberal frankenstein upon us.

 

Edited August 16, 2023 by OftenWrong

[CdnFox]

8 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Those are not uniquely conservative tenets. Liberals don't support institutions, rule of law, education and etc? I think they do, or certainly they used to. But the people who call themselves liberals now have taken themselves over a cliff. And you are not willing to follow them there, so you call yourself a conservative to hide the truth of what you are. Out of shame that we may find out what you people have done- Unleashed the liberal frankenstein upon us.

 

For the win.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

  And you are not willing to follow them there

 

I don't get it, are you saying that I should??