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News reports Emergency Rooms are failing Canadians


blackbird

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ER doctors are reporting many patients coming into ERs are being forced to wait 12, 24, 48, and sometimes even 72 hours before being treated.

This appalling situation is resulting in deaths of patients who are waiting for treatment.  In many cases the condition of these patients gets worse as they are forced to wait. 

Some die in hallways or waiting rooms of ERs.

This is the result of a failing public health care system that is run by politicians who do not understand or put significant necessary funds and attention into managing the health care system.  It has gotten to the point now where politicians are just trying to put out fires so to speak as they flare up here and there.  They have lost control of the whole system.

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A friend had to take her cat to the animal hospital on the weekend. She was in and out in quick order after it had tests and was seen by a vet. 

There were two vets in the small animal hospital. One of a number scattered around the city.

By contrast, there is only one doctor in the big city emergency room hospital up the road. And the wait to see them would be many hours.

 

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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

A friend had to take her cat to the animal hospital on the weekend. She was in and out in quick order after it had tests and was seen by a vet. 

There were two vets in the small animal hospital. One of a number scattered around the city.

By contrast, there is only one doctor in the big city emergency room hospital up the road. And the wait to see them would be many hours.

 

Keep in mind that unless you are one of these suckers who buys a pet insurance policy, you're paying out of pocket for the doctor's care for your cat or dog. 

I told my wife over a year ago that, after I had to take our loveable old Maine Coon Cat to the vet for the last time that I didn't want to have any more pets! I have always loved cats and dogs. But, providing proper care (like after the vet finds something wrong with them during a checkup) is just too much money, and too stressful for the animals also.

I noticed while looking at a few pictures in an album of our old dog- Toby, that I could tell even by the pictures that he was in pain and unhapppy in the last two years of his life....he had arthritis in three legs, and later cancer - was the final straw! 

All four of our cats and dogs lived long...usually healthy lives, but unfortunatelly both cats and dogs have much shorter life cycles than humans do. So, at 66 and retired, I have lots of time for pets, but don't want to watch them aging out and dying at a time in life when we'll be going through the same thing.

*it's a shame that access to euthanasia for us is so limited and mired with red tape and pointless rules! Most people don't seem to enjoy being alive either, when they are old and sick! It's fine when you are still young and healthy enough...even now at 66, I don't feel the aches and pains a lot of people my age complain about...as for my wife...well, that's another story! 

If I find myself at a stage in life where I'm suffering from chronic pain, and I know it will never go away, and I can't enjoy doing the things I do now....I may join some campaign for euthanasia, so that I can just go in, get a needle and say goodbye to my wife and any of our kids who may want to see me before I go lights out!

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15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

 Cannot force doctors or nurses to work where you want them to be anymore.

And by that we mean Canada.

Doubtful that any one person or party can be blamed for this, and it may actually be an unsolvable problem - BUT - we should use this as an inroad to getting a serious discussion going on *some* platform about real problems and how the public wasn't aware that this was coming.

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5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

No doctors, no nurses means you gotta wait to have your boo boo looked at.

Cannot force doctors or nurses to work where you want them to be anymore.

Then maybe don't fire them out of spite just because they have a different view of vaccines.

Sorry - but the 'can't hire anyone' excuse went right out the window during covid

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3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Then maybe don't fire them out of spite just because they have a different view of vaccines.

Sorry - but the 'can't hire anyone' excuse went right out the window during covid

Right...because there were so many of those.  That's why we have a problem right now...that existed long before COVID, but nevermind that.  Let's make it PARTISAN.  

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7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Right...because there were so many of those. 

Thousands actually.  In bc alone 44 doctors put up a billboard saying they were willing to work and the policy was stupid and more than that were let go. Hundreds of nurses were laid off.  Then they had to close or's and er's. 1200 or thereabouts doctors and nurses and medical staff in total got laid off in bc - the numbers in ontario were horrendous.

Across canada the numbers are staggering.

7 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 

That's why we have a problem right now...that existed long before COVID, but nevermind that.  Let's make it PARTISAN. 

"We fired thousands of qualified people that we desperately need now because they disagreed with our political position and now people are suffering - but YOU"RE the bad guy for bringing it up!!!!!"

Get  your head out of your butt. The gov'ts fired shittonnes of hospital staff in the middle of a medical crisis to make a political point. And now we're completely desperate for those same hospital staff. The moral of the story is DON"T FIRE DESPERATELY NEEDED STAFF FOR A POLITICAL POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

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9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And by that we mean Canada.

Doubtful that any one person or party can be blamed for this, and it may actually be an unsolvable problem - BUT - we should use this as an inroad to getting a serious discussion going on *some* platform about real problems and how the public wasn't aware that this was coming.

Pay them enough money in the towns they're needed and they'll move.  They moved to the US for more money.  Just keep cranking up the salary offer until someone bites.

Old white people live in the smaller towns too, they're totally screwed by a lack of public planning.  Central planning is too inefficient to deal with these things fast enough.  Immigration populations dont distribute evenly across the country.

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5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Thousands actually.  In bc alone 44 doctors put up a billboard saying they were willing to work and the policy was stupid and more than that were let go. Hundreds of nurses were laid off.  Then they had to close or's and er's. 1200 or thereabouts doctors and nurses and medical staff in total got laid off in bc - the numbers in ontario were horrendous.

Across canada the numbers are staggering.

"We fired thousands of qualified people that we desperately need now because they disagreed with our political position and now people are suffering - but YOU"RE the bad guy for bringing it up!!!!!"

Get  your head out of your butt. The gov'ts fired shittonnes of hospital staff in the middle of a medical crisis to make a political point. And now we're completely desperate for those same hospital staff. The moral of the story is DON"T FIRE DESPERATELY NEEDED STAFF FOR A POLITICAL POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

Hearsay.

Proof, provide proof of your claims instead of your normal rectal plucks.

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5 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Pay them enough money in the towns they're needed and they'll move.  They moved to the US for more money.  Just keep cranking up the salary offer until someone bites.

Old white people live in the smaller towns too, they're totally screwed by a lack of public planning.  Central planning is too inefficient to deal with these things fast enough.  Immigration populations dont distribute evenly across the country.

Well, individual municipalities actually do recruiting in some quarters.  

Planning for all of these things isn't that difficult but if "the" public glazes over when they're given 15-year warnings (!) of things, and instead puts pressure on their politicians to deal with identity politics (and I'm condemning all sides on that) then we are to blame.

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6 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Right...because there were so many of those.  That's why we have a problem right now...that existed long before COVID, but nevermind that.  Let's make it PARTISAN.  

This proletarian lump has actually highlighted the problem: dealing with "the" public who is consumed with cartoonish conspiracies like WEF takes cycles away from talking about actual issues.

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16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Well, individual municipalities actually do recruiting in some quarters.  

Planning for all of these things isn't that difficult but if "the" public glazes over when they're given 15-year warnings (!) of things, and instead puts pressure on their politicians to deal with identity politics (and I'm condemning all sides on that) then we are to blame.

And some provinces are offering free tuition.

Thing is, all medical schools are full. They cannot accept any more students. Classes are full, no more professors (which are doctors and nurses and not working in hospitals). I thunk the schools have been full for a long time.

"Canada loses anywhere from one-third to two-thirds of newly-graduated nurses within the first two years of entering the profession." for a number of reason but a primary one is the hours n the hospitals. Not sure what students that spend 4 years in university thought but, they should have known what they were getting in to as part of year 3 and 4 is internship in a hospital.

As for doctors, 7 and 8 years before they are actual doctors is a long time and they can then specialize and choose what direction to go in. General medicine and family practice is very low on the selection list. 

Lastly, as I have mentioned before, you cannot force doctors or nurses (or welders and plumbers) to work anywhere. They can choose where they want to work.

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6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Thousands actually.  In bc alone 44 doctors put up a billboard saying they were willing to work and the policy was stupid and more than that were let go. Hundreds of nurses were laid off.  Then they had to close or's and er's. 1200 or thereabouts doctors and nurses and medical staff in total got laid off in bc - the numbers in ontario were horrendous.

Across canada the numbers are staggering.

"We fired thousands of qualified people that we desperately need now because they disagreed with our political position and now people are suffering - but YOU"RE the bad guy for bringing it up!!!!!

I don’t know the numbers on this but I’d be very surprised if thousands of doctors are no longer working in Canada because of their position on Covid. For example, I don’t think we lost anyone in my health region, although in fairness we had little Covid for the first year. I can say that few left my province on the issue. Things may have been said back and forth to employers and the authorities but for the majority the storm blew over. 

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In terms of improving the spatial distribution of Canadian grads, firstly the problem has to be recognized. The data is clear but the Dean of my local med school doesn’t talk about it publicly. In my town we are getting more young GPs from Cairo than St. John’s. So firstly, admit that the med school is no longer able to do one of the things it was set up to do. Let me emphasize that most of the reason for this is not controlled by the med school. You’d need an army of brave sociologists and psychologists to explain why young people love cities now. Secondly, start considering what this means. Maybe the med school should not consider expansion if all it’s going to is send docs to places that have them already, especially itself? Thirdly, incentivize doctors in the periphery aggressively. Get serious about the bonuses. If you have to pay them four times what they earn in Toronto, do so. Offer them university appointments as well. Of course, you’ll run up against strong but subtle opposition from the medical associations on that. Fourthly, consider alternatives to CMGs on site - foreign doctors, nurse practitioners, telemedicine, better public transport. We’ve all seen how great Zoom is. I think AI will be a big help in the coming decades. 

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10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Then maybe don't fire them out of spite just because they have a different view of vaccines.

Sorry - but the 'can't hire anyone' excuse went right out the window during covid

Fire them out?  Who? When? How many?

What excuse? When? By who?

6 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Thousands actually.  In bc alone 44 doctors put up a billboard saying they were willing to work and the policy was stupid and more than that were let go. Hundreds of nurses were laid off.  Then they had to close or's and er's. 1200 or thereabouts doctors and nurses and medical staff in total got laid off in bc - the numbers in ontario were horrendous.

Across canada the numbers are staggering.

"We fired thousands of qualified people that we desperately need now because they disagreed with our political position and now people are suffering - but YOU"RE the bad guy for bringing it up!!!!!"

Get  your head out of your butt. The gov'ts fired shittonnes of hospital staff in the middle of a medical crisis to make a political point. And now we're completely desperate for those same hospital staff. The moral of the story is DON"T FIRE DESPERATELY NEEDED STAFF FOR A POLITICAL POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

Who? When? How many?

What excuse? When? By who?

Proof????

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If you need a GP, pop over to Harley St.

Quote

Patients are paying up to £550 an hour to see private GPs amid frustration at the delays many face getting an appointment with an NHS family doctor.

Growing numbers of paid-for GP services are opening up across Britain, in the latest sign of how the NHS’s inability to offer prompt care is creating a surge in people resorting to private healthcare.

Clinics are wooing customers by offering short-notice consultations that involve seeing a doctor face-to-face or remotely – and they can last for much longer than the standard 10-minute NHS equivalent.
Quote

The London General Practice on Harley Street in central London had the highest fees among the 25 non-NHS GP providers the Guardian looked at.

It charges £275 for half an hour with a family doctor, £412 for 45 minutes and £550 for an hour-long consultation. It rises to £348 for a 30-minute slot if it is out of hours or a bank holiday. A GP from the clinic will also do a house call for £500, £550 or £575, depending on the time of day.

Quote

Patient satisfaction with the NHS has sunk to its lowest level amid unhappiness at waiting times for GP and hospital care.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/19/patients-paying-550-an-hour-to-see-private-gps-amid-nhs-frustrations

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

And some provinces are offering free tuition.

Thing is, all medical schools are full. They cannot accept any more students. Classes are full, no more professors (which are doctors and nurses and not working in hospitals). I thunk the schools have been full for a long time.

"Canada loses anywhere from one-third to two-thirds of newly-graduated nurses within the first two years of entering the profession." for a number of reason but a primary one is the hours n the hospitals. Not sure what students that spend 4 years in university thought but, they should have known what they were getting in to as part of year 3 and 4 is internship in a hospital.

As for doctors, 7 and 8 years before they are actual doctors is a long time and they can then specialize and choose what direction to go in. General medicine and family practice is very low on the selection list. 

Lastly, as I have mentioned before, you cannot force doctors or nurses (or welders and plumbers) to work anywhere. They can choose where they want to work.

These problems are not insurmountable and given the McLeans article came out 15 years ago, well.... it's hard for me to not blame the public here.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

This proletarian lump has actually highlighted the problem: dealing with "the" public who is consumed with cartoonish conspiracies like WEF takes cycles away from talking about actual issues.

Twitter wants to talk about the sexy boots of M&MS.  We pay politicians to manage the things they are in charge of.  They shouldn't only act reactively after public pressure, they should do their jobs.

 

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4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh wait.... this isn't a new thing since COVID like so many cons seem to imply???

Shock!!  LOL

Oh Wait!  I never claimed it was new ! You lied about that.  SHOCK!

Here's a hint kiddo - if you have to lie to make a point you dont' have a very good point

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4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Hearsay.

Proof, provide proof of your claims instead of your normal rectal plucks.

Ohhh noooesss -  triggered leftie is triggered  :)   LOLOL -

I take it the truth upsets you.  And you still havent' learned how to use google yet :) Maybe get a 10 year old to walk you through it slowly.

Buuuut - here's some. Just this once :)

BC -  i actually understated it. Turned out they fired even more than the last time i looked

https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/about-2500-health-care-workers-lost-jobs-over-refusal-to-vaccinate

here's that billboard i mentioned

https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/COVID_19/Unvaxxed_doctors_ask_for_their_jobs_back_on_billboard_on_the_Westside

Now that's not all the doctors that were let go - just the ones in this group. There were many more.

As for ontario you have to look at region by region. Here's a google search to get you started.  But even at a glance, you can see it's into the thousands.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ontario+medical+staff+laid+suspended+refuse+vaccine&t=newext&atb=v318-1&ia=web

Roughly about 10,000 workers nation wide

https://tnc.news/2021/12/16/provinces-sacked-almost-10000-health-care-workers-over-vaccine-mandates/

LOL - sorry to burst your bubble - but thanks again for the opportunity to point out that I'm right and you're wrong :_  Always a joy :)

 

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Fire them out?  Who? When? How many?

Already posted the links.  Doctors, nurses and health care workers, during the pandemic, 10,000.

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

What excuse? When? By who?

Who? When? How many?

What excuse? When? By who?

Proof????

Wow.  Well folks - that's what happens to the leftie brain when it's confronted with facts it doesn't like :)

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