Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, TreeBeard said: Can we shoot them when they climb out of the subs and up onto land? I’m not entirely sure what we’re supposed to be scared of…. we clearly haven’t needed the ice-subs yet. And our current subs have defended our coastlines by going to Japan and the Mediterranean! Canada’s reach is far and wide! I haven’t heard a compelling case for why Canada needs more and better subs. Well, one would be that we don't have a navy that can operate in our Arctic during winter but several other countries do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Well, one would be that we don't have a navy that can operate in our Arctic during winter but several other countries do. You think they will invade from the North via submarine? Can we shoot them once they try and land? Edited January 31 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, TreeBeard said: You think they will invade from the North? Can we shoot them once they try and land? Who's talking about invasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, blackbird said: We have liberal and left politicians whose whole purpose is to divide Canadians based on race, ethnic origin, religion and ideology as much as they can. Constant talk about diversity and inclusion, etc. are extremely powerful divisive words. talking about race repeatedly and having the CBC, CTV promote their agenda is doing nothing but cause division and distrust of politicians. Yet a large percentage of voters continue to support them and vote for them. This might be just one big reason why this country might not survive in its present form. And on the right... we have politician that do nothing more than condemn and criticize and besmirch anything and everything. No plans, no beliefs, no foresight, no promoting Canada and unity. Unfortunately, one side is as divisive as the other. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, Aristides said: Who's talking about invasion? So the scenario is that they have 10 subs under the ice in the Arctic, and we have none…. Why do we need to blow them up? Would we even notice them there? What are they doing, if not invading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) How can we claim sovereignty if we can't at least show a presence let alone enforce it? We already know US, Russian and British subs operate up there. Probably others as well. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-submarines-not-part-of-international-arctic-under-ice-exercise-1.4699208 Edited January 31 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Aristides said: How can we claim sovereignty if we can't at least show a presence let alone enforce it? How have we done it thus far? Without ever having subs up there…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I ask you the same with your link. Actually, Polish unity is far more prevalent than Canadian unity. we are a torn country, by politics, left, right and indifferent. Not where I live nor with the people I call friends and family. Perhaps in your circles though...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Aristides said: They weren't "junked", they were only in service four years before they were put in storage after the Brits decided to go all nuclear. They're definitely not fit for a northern country like Canada. They appear very fragile and junky. They would not be able to withstand the Arctic for one thing. A vessel in the Arctic must be capable of breaking through heavy ice. These would not fit that category. Guess the never thought of that when they bought them. They were purchased just to be able to say we have some subs. Useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, blackbird said: They're definitely not fit for a northern country like Canada. They appear very fragile and junky. They would not be able to withstand the Arctic for one thing. A vessel in the Arctic must be capable of breaking through heavy ice. These would not fit that category. Guess the never thought of that when they bought them. They were purchased just to be able to say we have some subs. Useless. They were never intended for the arctic and neither were the Oberon class which they replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 21 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: And on the right... we have politician that do nothing more than condemn and criticize and besmirch anything and everything. No plans, no beliefs, no foresight, no promoting Canada and unity. Unfortunately, one side is as divisive as the other. In case you haven't figured it out yet, that's exactly how politics works if you want to win an election. People vote for the party that can best expose the other party. Its called politics. Conservatives point out the legitimate failures of the Trudeau government. Of course it requires criticizing them because those are the facts and only facts that people listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 36 minutes ago, blackbird said: They would not be able to withstand the Arctic for one thing. Why do we need subs in the Arctic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: Riiight... https://pl.usembassy.gov/demonstration-alert-u-s-embassy-warsaw-november-10-2022/ What is this supposed to show us? That there were independence day parades, rallies and/or demonstrations in Warsaw and Krakow on Polish independence day last year? WOW!? 3 hours ago, Nationalist said: This too. https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-36239756 That's from 2016, so good job making yourself look even more foolish. Thanks for confirming what we already knew and removing any doubt of it. You're so desperate to find anything whatsoever that supports your clownworld viewpoint that you've sunk to quoting news out of Iran. Even the dumbest posters here are usually smart enough to avoid doing that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 54 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Why do we need subs in the Arctic? Why do we need a navy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 14 minutes ago, Aristides said: Why do we need a navy? Clearly, we need a navy for coastal defence. The fleet make up of the navy is pretty open to argument. Subs? Aircraft carriers? Etc, etc. But you have no compelling arguments to make for your assertion that we need submarines that can operate in the Arctic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Aristides said: Why do we need a navy? To keep China from fishing salmon and thumbing their noses at us. And our NATO allies stealing cod on the East coast. Edited January 31 by herbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, herbie said: To keep China from fishing salmon and thumbing their noses at us. And our NATO allies stealing cod on the East coast. When was the last time China fished salmon in Canadian waters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, TreeBeard said: Why do we need subs in the Arctic? "Canada needs an Arctic defence strategy as Russia, China eye the north" COMMENTARY: Canada needs an Arctic defence strategy as Russia, China eye the north - National | Globalnews.ca 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, Aristides said: During the Cold War we had an armoured brigade stationed in Germany. During the Cold War we had... the operative word. Not having a base in Germany there's no need for our tanks there. And aside from training crews and tech, little need for them here either. You don't fly 40 ton tanks to where the war IS. And this arctic panic shit = WTH would Russia send vessels through "our Arctic"? What possible benefit would they derive from that? There's no need for oceanic shortcuts from Russia and only range disadvantages for boomer subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, blackbird said: "Canada needs an Arctic defence strategy as Russia, China eye the north" COMMENTARY: Canada needs an Arctic defence strategy as Russia, China eye the north - National | Globalnews.ca Americans saw the Chinese/Russians in open waters. Can’t we just use ships too? Why do we need submarines? That article from 2 years ago had nothing compelling in it to convince me that subs would grant us some magical status in the Arctic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, TreeBeard said: Serious question…. does Canada’s navy need submarines? Canada doesn't even need a navy in fact, Canada doesn't need any armed forces at all Canada could easily get away with just the RCMP & Coast Guard there is no conventional military threat to Canada whatsoever and no, the Americans would not care Canada cannot support its armed forces logistically America has to support Canada's armed forces overseas so the Canadian Forces are an operational burden to the Pentagon not a boon so long as Canada is supportive of Washington's foreign policy, America is satisfied Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) 3 hours ago, Aristides said: Yes, particularly ones that can operate under ice. only nuclear submarines can operate under the ice America has already made it clear that they will not allow Canada to have nuclear submarines reason being : the Americans are Canada's chief rival in the Arctic it is the Americans who dispute Canada's claims in the Arctic it is the Americans who deny Canada's claim to the Northwest Passage so it is the Americans who do not want Canada up there following them around under the ice the Americans will allow Australia to have nuclear submarines although that will be highly restricted with America in charge of what they can do with them but the Americans do not want Canada in the club, they already prevented Canada from joining Canada tried to buy SSN's in the 80's, and the Americans told Ottawa no, you can't have them and you'll note that they did not invite Canada to join AUKUS neither Canada is the only American ally who has territorial disputes with America so Canada uniquely has to be kept under thumb therein the Americans claim that the Northwest Passage is international waters the Americans claim that they have freedom of navigation through the Northwest Passsage with their warships, particularly their submarines furthermore, it is obvious that they do not trust Ottawa at the highest levels they do not trust Ottawa to know where American nuclear submarines are operating so they are not going to allow Canada any capabilities whatsoever which could challenge them and they are not going to allow Canada to track their submarines neither Edited January 31 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 11 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: When was the last time China fished salmon in Canadian waters? True enough. I guess we need a West coast navy to stop Columbian drug cartels from smuggling all that marijuana into BC? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougie93 Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) the actual threats to Canada are in thee areas 1. at the highest level : global thermonuclear war 2. at the lowest level : terrorism, insurrection & transnational criminal cartels 3. the Americans disputing Canada's claims to sovereignty there's nothing Canada can do about number 1 there's Canada is going to do about number 3 so the only threat that Canada can realistically address is number 2 and since that is not a military threat, Canada only needs an armed constabulary to address it RCMP, Coast Guard, CBSA, CSIS the Department of Public Safety is the only Canadian arm of decision thus Canada could do away with the Canadian Armed Forces altogether, and nobody would notice the difference again, Canada has only ever fought one war on its own behalf the Northwest Rebellion of 1885 against Louis Riel and it was the Mounties who crushed the Metis, not the military Canada's enemies are all at home : Indians, Bikers & Canadians who want American freedom and it is the Mounties who are the bulwark for the Crown therein Maintiens le Droit Edited January 31 by Dougie93 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: What is this supposed to show us? That there were independence day parades, rallies and/or demonstrations in Warsaw and Krakow on Polish independence day last year? WOW!? That's from 2016, so good job making yourself look even more foolish. Thanks for confirming what we already knew and removing any doubt of it. You're so desperate to find anything whatsoever that supports your clownworld viewpoint that you've sunk to quoting news out of Iran. Even the dumbest posters here are usually smart enough to avoid doing that. Was it? Oh it was. My bad. So...I believe the question here was...are the Poles united as a people...or more united than Canucks...? Well...apparently the answer is still... No. And while I find your dismissal of news sources outside your little msm bubble...amusing as hell...the geopolitical atmosphere today...pretty much throughout everywhere...is very binary. 2 staunch factions. One based on "feelings" and has already proven to live in an...altered reality, and one based on contemplative analysis and common sense. Not to long ago, both factions lived in an understood harmony. Then the Prog thing happened, Trump happened in response, and gangs of supposedly grown adults went outside one night...all over America...turned their heads to the moon...and howled like dogs. The political left...had lurched to Never Never Land...and became Libbies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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