Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: Not sure what your link is about? I cannot read it. I served my Country for 35 years. Did all it asked of me at any time without complaint. When I retired, I was still subject to recall. Congratulations. What's that got to do with Polish unity? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: I think the reason Poland can give us a run is the Polish peoples love of their Country. They are united. Something we sorely seem to lack on our Country.... and getting worse every election. Only my observation We have liberal and left politicians whose whole purpose is to divide Canadians based on race, ethnic origin, religion and ideology as much as they can. Constant talk about diversity and inclusion, etc. are extremely powerful divisive words. talking about race repeatedly and having the CBC, CTV promote their agenda is doing nothing but cause division and distrust of politicians. Yet a large percentage of voters continue to support them and vote for them. This might be just one big reason why this country might not survive in its present form. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 19 minutes ago, Contrarian said: Troll, you posted an Iranian news and you want me to respect you? An IRGC source and he comes here thinking what? that I am intimated by you and other creatures that roam this forum? because of your big mouth? What else do you have to share with the audience except Russian and Iranian sources? See my post to Moonie. And always remember...I do not need your respect. Now that you're apparently Canadian...I need your allegiance to CANADA! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 22 hours ago, herbie said: Washington Examiner, the conservative media outlet too stupid to know that the only country Canadian tanks could be used to defend against is the USA. That's not correct. America is our ally and has no interest in taking over Canada. We could be required to defend the Artic from a country who decided to take it over, like China or Russia. But we do have a commitment to NATO and our allies, which includes defending Europe. Because of neglect of our military, it could not be much help now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 34 minutes ago, Contrarian said: Uhmm who is more loyal? I am not the one getting Iranian sources or Russian sources, even liking posts from a Russian well known bot. But what do you mean by allegiance? I went through a process to become Canadian already. There is a second check now from Nationalistic elements in Canada that i need to pass too? Where are we going with this? And I'm not the one pushing for WWIII. Have a seat. What I mean is...if called to service in Canada, you will serve Canada. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 19 hours ago, blackbird said: How could the Canadian government be so dumb to buy four junked submarines from the British? "'I'm appalled we've done a dumb deal with an ally like this.'—Mike Hancock, British MP "My God, it's a sad tale, isn't it? 'Buyer beware' should have been painted on the sides of these submarines." Hancock, a member of Britain's coalition government, has tabled questions in the Westminster Parliament about the deal. He told CBC News he is asking "why we sold them to you knowing there were intrinsic problems in the submarines." "It's either incompetence on behalf of the Canadians, or sheer, smooth-talking salesmen from the MOD [Ministry of Defence] here in Britain," he added. Canada paid $750 million for four used Victoria-class Royal Navy submarines in 1998. They had been decommissioned in 1993 when the U.K. decided to focus solely on nuclear subs. The subs had been based in Hancock's Portsmouth riding. Canada renamed them: HMCS Chicoutimi. HMCS Corner Brook. HMCS Windsor. HMCS Victoria. Since then, the navy has spent billions of dollars trying to get them in fighting shape." Used subs a 'daft' deal for Canada, U.K. MP says | CBC News We should not forget what a disaster the Canadian military equipment purchasing system. We needed a major change long ago but it doesn't look like it happened. The F35 fiasco that dragged on for years is another example of the mismanagement by the government. They weren't "junked", they were only in service four years before they were put in storage after the Brits decided to go all nuclear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Serious question…. does Canada’s navy need submarines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Serious question…. does Canada’s navy need submarines? Yes, particularly ones that can operate under ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 22 hours ago, herbie said: Washington Examiner, the conservative media outlet too stupid to know that the only country Canadian tanks could be used to defend against is the USA. During the Cold War we had an armoured brigade stationed in Germany. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Yes, particularly ones that can operate under ice. Have the current subs ever gone to the Arctic since we’ve owned them? They've been to Japan and the Mediterranean. But I can’t find any evidence that they’ve been deployed in the Arctic. Everyone in Canada says we need subs for the Arctic, yet I’ve never heard of our subs being deployed in the Arctic. So…. does Canada really need subs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Have the current subs ever gone to the Arctic since we’ve owned them? They've been to Japan and the Mediterranean. But I can’t find any evidence that they’ve been deployed in the Arctic. Everyone in Canada says we need subs for the Arctic, yet I’ve never heard of our subs being deployed in the Arctic. So…. does Canada really need subs? Diesel electrics can only operate under ice as long as their batteries last, that's probably why they don't go there. Nuke's have no such limitations. The Swedes have a class of subs powered by Stirling Engines that can stay submerged for weeks. They are also super quiet. During an exercise off San Diego, one of them penetrated a US carrier group and could have sunk the carrier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine Quote n 2005, HSwMS Gotland managed to snap several pictures of USS Ronald Reagan during a wargaming exercise in the Pacific Ocean, demonstrating that it was in a position to sink the aircraft carrier.[11] The exercise was conducted to evaluate the effectiveness of the US fleet against diesel-electric submarines, which some have noted as severely lacking.[1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, Aristides said: Diesel electrics can only operate under ice as long as their batteries last, that's probably why they don't go there. Nuke's have no such limitations. The Swedes have a class of subs powered by Stirling Engines that can stay submerged for weeks. They are also super quiet. During an exercise off San Diego, one of them penetrated a US carrier group and could have sunk the carrier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gotland-class_submarine So, you’re saying we need subs to go under the ice, but we’ve never had subs that could go under the ice…. I’m unconvinced that we need these ice-subs. We’ve done alright so far. I googled…. $2.8 billion per submarine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 7 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Everyone in Canada says we need subs for the Arctic, yet I’ve never heard of our subs being deployed in the Arctic. They can't be deployed there because they are poor quality and the Arctic is a remote, rugged place. Artic vessels must be capable of withstanding being hit by large ice blocks. 27 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Serious question…. does Canada’s navy need submarines? Of course. Canada has three large coastlines to defend and the best defence against a submarine is another submarine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 21 minutes ago, TreeBeard said: Have the current subs ever gone to the Arctic since we’ve owned them? They've been to Japan and the Mediterranean. But I can’t find any evidence that they’ve been deployed in the Arctic. Everyone in Canada says we need subs for the Arctic, yet I’ve never heard of our subs being deployed in the Arctic. So…. does Canada really need subs? To operate in the Arctic a vessel must be very reliable, have a special hull to withstand hitting large chunks of ice. I doubt the old submarines Canada bought are capable of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted January 31 Author Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Aristides said: They weren't "junked", they were only in service four years before they were put in storage after the Brits decided to go all nuclear. "All four of Canada's submarines were tied up last year for repairs and maintenance — news that has the opposition Conservatives questioning whether the Liberal government can keep the second-hand fleet afloat for another two decades.' Canada's submarine fleet spent 'zero days' at sea last year: government documents | CBC News What use are submarines if they are tied up for repairs and maintenance much of the time? Canada had no submarines available for a full year. They even look untrustworthy and like pieces of junk. Edited January 31 by blackbird Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, Nationalist said: Congratulations. What's that got to do with Polish unity? I ask you the same with your link. Actually, Polish unity is far more prevalent than Canadian unity. we are a torn country, by politics, left, right and indifferent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 8 minutes ago, blackbird said: Of course. Canada has three large coastlines to defend and the best defence against a submarine is another submarine. Can we shoot them when they climb out of the subs and up onto land? I’m not entirely sure what we’re supposed to be scared of…. we clearly haven’t needed the ice-subs yet. And our current subs have defended our coastlines by going to Japan and the Mediterranean! Canada’s reach is far and wide! I haven’t heard a compelling case for why Canada needs more and better subs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, TreeBeard said: Can we shoot them when they climb out of the subs and up onto land? I’m not entirely sure what we’re supposed to be scared of…. we clearly haven’t needed the ice-subs yet. And our current subs have defended our coastlines by going to Japan and the Mediterranean! Canada’s reach is far and wide! I haven’t heard a compelling case for why Canada needs more and better subs. Well, one would be that we don't have a navy that can operate in our Arctic during winter but several other countries do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Well, one would be that we don't have a navy that can operate in our Arctic during winter but several other countries do. You think they will invade from the North via submarine? Can we shoot them once they try and land? Edited January 31 by TreeBeard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, TreeBeard said: You think they will invade from the North? Can we shoot them once they try and land? Who's talking about invasion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, blackbird said: We have liberal and left politicians whose whole purpose is to divide Canadians based on race, ethnic origin, religion and ideology as much as they can. Constant talk about diversity and inclusion, etc. are extremely powerful divisive words. talking about race repeatedly and having the CBC, CTV promote their agenda is doing nothing but cause division and distrust of politicians. Yet a large percentage of voters continue to support them and vote for them. This might be just one big reason why this country might not survive in its present form. And on the right... we have politician that do nothing more than condemn and criticize and besmirch anything and everything. No plans, no beliefs, no foresight, no promoting Canada and unity. Unfortunately, one side is as divisive as the other. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 Just now, Aristides said: Who's talking about invasion? So the scenario is that they have 10 subs under the ice in the Arctic, and we have none…. Why do we need to blow them up? Would we even notice them there? What are they doing, if not invading? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 (edited) How can we claim sovereignty if we can't at least show a presence let alone enforce it? We already know US, Russian and British subs operate up there. Probably others as well. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-submarines-not-part-of-international-arctic-under-ice-exercise-1.4699208 Edited January 31 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeBeard Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 1 minute ago, Aristides said: How can we claim sovereignty if we can't at least show a presence let alone enforce it? How have we done it thus far? Without ever having subs up there…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted January 31 Report Share Posted January 31 15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I ask you the same with your link. Actually, Polish unity is far more prevalent than Canadian unity. we are a torn country, by politics, left, right and indifferent. Not where I live nor with the people I call friends and family. Perhaps in your circles though...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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