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Canada's military is broken and falling apart.


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19 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Dougie, I'm no more qualified than you are, like i said many EX royals are SAR techs, but SAR training according to them the hardest part was the mental part, and all the medical shit you have to learn as you mentioned,... me if i was smart enough i would have gone the same route, 34 years in the Infantry and i did not come off with many useable skills, i can use in Civvie street SAR tech would have given me all of that.  

My Recce course was a massive bag drive, and it tested me in every way possible, belt feed co*k the entire time, with ruck sacks reaching up to 100 lbs just becasue they thought it was cool, ...in beautiful Gagetown in the hills... It did teach me i had physicals limits. And paid off in Afghanistan. Add the tactical portion and being sleep fu*ked, it adds a whole dimension to it...

My jump course i did early in the 80's, never had any issues, except at the lamplighter club in Edmonton with a couple air force guys...or at the hotel just off base, can't think of the name, use to be a bikers bar, part of the ritual of getting your wings getting into a fight and coming home. Never did go to the Airborne Regt , stayed a cherry jumper my whole career...

no worries, brother

I was just explaining the logic behind my assesment

in that it wasn't a combat arms bagdrive evaluation

more just the number of advanced qualifications required to pass the course

for example, it's not a bagdrive to be fighter pilot neither, but they too are the elite of the elite

in terms of deferring to your greater expertise, my experiences are approaching 30 years old now

your view of things is just more current than mine

pretty sure the name of the hotel just off base was the Rosslyn

but the Rebels Motorcycle Club biker bar was at the Kingsway Motor Inn

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20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Add the tactical portion and being sleep fu*ked, it adds a whole dimension to it...

that was worse for me on ISCC

on final ex, we went nine days with no sleep at all

nobody quit nor failed on Section Attack, Section Defensive, nor Section Small Party Task

everybody who quit or failed, was broken by the Section Night Patrol

you got two chances to pass, and you had to get that done early in the week, or sleep dep would break you

and like I say, I had the most feared Section Commander on the course, who went on to JTF2

and I got the patrol from hell, densest bush you can imagine

three steep ravines, straight down, straight up, with drop offs into creeks at the bottom of all three

then we come to the fourth valley, and beavers had completely logged it to build their dam

it was just razor sharp punji sticks stumps as far as the eye can see in the moonlight

we picked are way through the spikes, crossed over on the beaver dam, and up the other side

to my amazement, I got on the objective

just in time to get bumped

then we had to peel back all away across beaver valley, legs getting torn up by the punji sticks

then back across all three ravines again, to the FRV

Section Commander gives his evaluation "overall, pretty good job there, that's a pass"

and suddenly I thought, holy sh*t, I might actually make it, I might actually pass this course

everybody who failed the first P.O. either failed the second one too, or quit

one guy, who was a much better soldier than me, just up and quit

in the middle of his orders group, on the second last night

I said, "no, man, don't do it, its just one more day", but he just said "I can't do this" and got up and walked away

when they called Endex, the fearsome Section Commander just turns to me and shakes my hand

"congratulations, you passed" and then he told me his first name, started helping fill in the trenches

then we got hot showers, clean sheets & eight hours sleep

then the course party, now my Section Commander is drinking with me, laughing & joking

now we are peers, because I am a Section Commander

and my oldest and best friend in this world, who joined the army with me

he was there too, he passed the course too, he was the one who got me through it

that was the greatest moment of my life, until I met my wife

Edited by Dougie93
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4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I think that was already done, not sure if it was recently or before this incident. Anyways my point was they don't have any short range heat seeking missiles, i mean i is one thing to fly a 40 year old plane, but another when you don't have any missiles to shoot Anything down let alone a balloon, it just gets better and better as the days go by, we keep hearing how badly our Military state is, and we all just smile and grin... 

I don't get why the USAF used missiles on the last three. Why wouldn't they use their gun instead of an expensive missile? 

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3 hours ago, Aristides said:

I don't get why the USAF used missiles on the last three. Why wouldn't they use their gun instead of an expensive missile? 

Not sure why, My guess is the altitude the plane maxed out at and the gun range was not enough to reach the target, or the idea that the gun was not very effective... I read a story , and am trying to find it again, but they said they had put over 1000 rounds on target, from a couple planes, and it did very little...20 mm does not make a huge hole in fabric, just under  the size of your thumb, again it's all a guess. Maybe some Air force guy can fill us in... 

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4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

no worries, brother

I was just explaining the logic behind my assesment

in that it wasn't a combat arms bagdrive evaluation

more just the number of advanced qualifications required to pass the course

for example, it's not a bagdrive to be fighter pilot neither, but they too are the elite of the elite

in terms of deferring to your greater expertise, my experiences are approaching 30 years old now

your view of things is just more current than mine

pretty sure the name of the hotel just off base was the Rosslyn

but the Rebels Motorcycle Club biker bar was at the Kingsway Motor Inn

Roger that, all good.  

Rosslyn was the hotel, and i  was a rough crowd, got the crap pounded out of me, there and was fireman carried back to the shacks... not sure what hurt more the pounding or the jump a couple days later... 

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4 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

that was worse for me on ISCC

on final ex, we went nine days with no sleep at all

nobody quit nor failed on Section Attack, Section Defensive, nor Section Small Party Task

everybody who quit or failed, was broken by the Section Night Patrol

you got two chances to pass, and you had to get that done early in the week, or sleep dep would break you

and like I say, I had the most feared Section Commander on the course, who went on to JTF2

and I got the patrol from hell, densest bush you can imagine

three steep ravines, straight down, straight up, with drop offs into creeks at the bottom of all three

then we come to the fourth valley, and beavers had completely logged it to build their dam

it was just razor sharp punji sticks stumps as far as the eye can see in the moonlight

we picked are way through the spikes, crossed over on the beaver dam, and up the other side

to my amazement, I got on the objective

just in time to get bumped

then we had to peel back all away across beaver valley, legs getting torn up by the punji sticks

then back across all three ravines again, to the FRV

Section Commander gives his evaluation "overall, pretty good job there, that's a pass"

and suddenly I thought, holy sh*t, I might actually make it, I might actually pass this course

everybody who failed the first P.O. either failed the second one too, or quit

one guy, who was a much better soldier than me, just up and quit

in the middle of his orders group, on the second last night

I said, "no, man, don't do it, its just one more day", but he just said "I can't do this" and got up and walked away

when they called Endex, the fearsome Section Commander just turns to me and shakes my hand

"congratulations, you passed" and then he told me his first name, started helping fill in the trenches

then we got hot showers, clean sheets & eight hours sleep

then the course party, now my Section Commander is drinking with me, laughing & joking

now we are peers, because I am a Section Commander

and my oldest and best friend in this world, who joined the army with me

he was there too, he passed the course too, he was the one who got me through it

that was the greatest moment of my life, until I met my wife

There is a a U tube out about one of the JFT guys that made that incredible world record sniper shot in Iraq, anyways he describes all the courses he has been on and the one that he remembers the most as a bag drive is his recce course, now he is PPCLI, but he is still a brother. That has got to say something about that course...

I'm not sure i could have made any of my courses if not for a friend or brother in arms giving a helping hand...when your mind and body is screaming at the top of their lungs quit MFu**er, and your brother puts his hand on your shoulder and says we got this, pick up the pace...it ends, or so you think,  take your boots and socks off and huge chunks of skin drop to the ground, your feet look like hamburger, bleeding and raw flesh exposed the medic pours anti septic on them you scream in pain...Sgt yells buck the f*ck up troop put your boots back on we got another 10 KM to go... just to get a reaction out of you...

Hard to put into words that whole experience...

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8 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Hard to put into words that whole experience...

it is all summed up by one word

ducimus

every man a leader

when you are on your chinstrap

you draw upon the deeds of our great grandfathers from Second Ypres to Mons

to find a way to keep going

to turn to the man next to you and say : follow me

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Canada is sending 4 more tanks, plus an ARV, and AMMO, which is a good thing I'm not complaining, but why don't we send all of them, stop Nickle and diming the military,  what are not running can be used for parts, then place orders for  brand news ones and look like a hero on the Ukraine side and here in Canada. It would be a win win for the liberal party and our military. Could also throw some LAV's in there as well. 

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On 2/16/2023 at 10:27 AM, Army Guy said:

looking at forcing members to meet the 2 % of GDP as a minimum. Canada is being given the hard stare , they are pointing at Canada and saying it is your move, time to step up or step off

We’re a sovereign nation.  No other country gets to demand what we spend our tax dollars on.  Don’t like it?   Kick rocks. 

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3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Canada is sending 4 more tanks, plus an ARV, and AMMO, which is a good thing I'm not complaining, but why don't we send all of them, stop Nickle and diming the military,  what are not running can be used for parts, then place orders for  brand news ones and look like a hero on the Ukraine side and here in Canada. It would be a win win for the liberal party and our military. Could also throw some LAV's in there as well. 

Washington doesn't want the Ukrainians to win the war outright

if the Ukrainians start to overrun the Russians, Mr. Ivan would be forced to escalate to the high seas

Washington wants a stalemate, then a negotiated settlement close to the 2014 status quo

so the military hardware is being doled out in tranches

only enough to keep the Ukrainians in the fight

but not enough for the Ukrainians to encircle the Russians and destroy them

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2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Washington doesn't want the Ukrainians to win the war outright

if the Ukrainians start to overrun the Russians, Mr. Ivan would be forced to escalate to the high seas

Washington wants a stalemate, then a negotiated settlement close to the 2014 status quo

so the military hardware is being doled out in tranches

only enough to keep the Ukrainians in the fight

but not enough for the Ukrainians to encircle the Russians and destroy them

But how does that work with the other countries already chipping in as well. As i understand it they're up to 100 new tanks now to be delivered and they have a fair bit of offensive firepower. With other countries sending their stuff too wouldn't it be likely the ukrainians would be able to conduct offensive as well as defensive operations? Not my area of expertise but it seems like they're building up for a aggressive move at some point.

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7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But how does that work with the other countries already chipping in as well. As i understand it they're up to 100 new tanks now to be delivered and they have a fair bit of offensive firepower. With other countries sending their stuff too wouldn't it be likely the ukrainians would be able to conduct offensive as well as defensive operations? Not my area of expertise but it seems like they're building up for a aggressive move at some point.

Washington leads NATO, the allies are doing as Washington leads them to do

100 tanks is only two regiments

to defeat the Russians outright, the Ukrainians would need thousands of armoured vehicles

offensive operations require 3 to 1 numerical advantage at minimum

so 100 NATO tanks is only enough to engage 33 Russian tanks offensively

to conduct a large scale offensive, to breach the Russian lines and encircle them

that would require an armoured corps of three divisions, 1000 tanks with 1000 AFV's

so if they are building up, they are doing it extremely slowly

the Ukrainians can't fight forever, they would need to win relatively soon

so it is obvious that Washington is not building them up for a win, but rather an armistice

the mission here is simply to prevent Russia from winning

it's not actually in NATO's interests for Ukraine to go on the offensive

the Ukrainians want to take it all back

thermonuclear war has a logic unto itself : he who strikes first wins

so if you start to approach that event horizon, it becomes like a gravity well

dragging you down towards an exchange

but if there is a sustained attack on the Russian navy at Crimea, that's the brink of World War Three

this is a similar situation to the Korean War

in that you can only go so far before things would escalate into a global conflagration

if the Russian navy is threatened, that will force the Russians to use their navy

if Russian submarines start sinking ships delivering war stores to Ukraine

that would spin out of control very quickly

Washington cannot guess what the Russians might do

Washington has to operate by what the Russians are capable of doing

because you could indeed start a thermonuclear war, simply by miscalculation in the end

Washington has a tried & true Cold War strategy instituted by George Kennan

it's called Containment

so the objective here is to stop the Russians, while containing the war to the Donbass

force a stalemate, force an armistice, war of attrition until both sides come to the negotiating table

because if it becomes a manoeuvre war, that can escalate to the high seas

and once things escalate to the seas, that becomes a global war, inherently

that's how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened

the situation in Cuba escalated into a naval blockade

at which point you are manoeuvring with submarines and thermonuclear weapons

unlike a land war, a naval war is binary : shoot or no shoot

then it just takes one torpedo to start World War Three

submarine captains are charged with defending their ships

so if somebody floods tubes, opens bow caps,  and engages active sonar

that is point blank for Armageddon

thermonuclear war has a logic unto itself : he who strikes first wins

so if you start to approach that event horizon, it becomes like a gravity well

dragging you down towards an inevitable exchange

this is what John Kennedy realized

the further it went, the more it accelerated, events started to overtake him

it was rapidly reaching the point where he was losing control

where he couldn't stop the war if he tried

Edited by Dougie93
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2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Washington leads NATO, the allies are doing as Washington leads them to do

100 tanks is only two regiments

to defeat the Russians outright, the Ukrainians would need thousands of armoured vehicles

offensive operations require 3 to 1 numerical advantage at minimum

so 100 NATO tanks is only enough to engage 33 Russian tanks offensively

to conduct a large scale offensive, to breach the Russian lines and encircle them

that would require an armoured corps of three divisions, 1000 tanks with 1000 AFV's

so if they are building up, they are doing it extremely slowly

the Ukrainians can't fight forever, they would need to win relatively soon

so it is obvious that Washington is not building them up for a win, but rather an armistice

the mission here is simply to prevent Russia from winning

it's not actually in NATO's interests for Ukraine to go on the offensive

the Ukrainians want to take it all back

thermonuclear war has a logic unto itself : he who strikes first wins

so if you start to approach that event horizon, it becomes like a gravity well

dragging you down towards an exchange

but if there is a sustained attack on the Russian navy at Crimea, that's the brink of World War Three

this is a similar situation to the Korean War

in that you can only go so far before things would escalate into a global conflagration

if the Russian navy is threatened, that will force the Russians to use their navy

if Russian submarines start sinking ships delivering war stores to Ukraine

that would spin out of control very quickly

Washington cannot guess what the Russians might do

Washington has to operate by what the Russians are capable of doing

because you could indeed start a thermonuclear war, simply by miscalculation in the end

Washington has a tried & true Cold War strategy instituted by George Kennan

it's called Containment

so the objective here is to stop the Russians, while containing the war to the Donbass

force a stalemate, force an armistice, war of attrition until both sides come to the negotiating table

because if it becomes a manoeuvre war, that can escalate to the high seas

and once things escalate to the seas, that becomes a global war, inherently

that's how the Cuban Missile Crisis happened

the situation in Cuba escalated into a naval blockade

at which point you are manoeuvring with submarines and thermonuclear weapons

unlike a land war, a naval war is binary : shoot or no shoot

then it just takes one torpedo to start World War Three

submarine captains are charged with defending their ships

so if somebody floods tubes, opens bow caps,  and engages active sonar

that is point blank for Armageddon

thermonuclear war has a logic unto itself : he who strikes first wins

so if you start to approach that event horizon, it becomes like a gravity well

dragging you down towards an inevitable exchange

this is what John Kennedy realized

the further it went, the more it accelerated, events started to overtake him

it was rapidly reaching the point where he was losing control

where he couldn't stop the war if he tried

Thanks for the explanation.

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16 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

We’re a sovereign nation.  No other country gets to demand what we spend our tax dollars on.  Don’t like it?   Kick rocks. 

Yes we are a sovereign nation, one that has repeatedly signed onto these defensive agreements on our own accord... now they are saying want to be in the club you need to step up or find ourselves on the outside...Canada needs to think what that would mean....not only for defense but trade, economics, global security, intel sharing, there is a lot more here at stake than telling them to kick rocks. It won't be us telling them to kick rocks it will be them...

On the other hand one way or another we are going to be forced to spend on our military, be it for NATO, NORAD, or 5 EYES or to defend our own sovereignty by ourselves. and lets not forget it is our sovereignty to protect, not the US job one that may find us cut off from that protection as well.   

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13 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

Washington doesn't want the Ukrainians to win the war outright

if the Ukrainians start to overrun the Russians, Mr. Ivan would be forced to escalate to the high seas

Washington wants a stalemate, then a negotiated settlement close to the 2014 status quo

so the military hardware is being doled out in tranches

only enough to keep the Ukrainians in the fight

but not enough for the Ukrainians to encircle the Russians and destroy them

Like you have said already, the rest of our 70 tanks are not going to make a huge difference, most of those are not running to start with so a good portion will be spare parts...the win win part is Canada could now replace those meager numbers with brand new tanks, the army get some new equipment, whorah.... the liberals look like they are supporting the military whorah, on on the inter national front we are supporting Ukraine, plus increasing our NATO commitment GDP spending even closer to the 2 % mark more whorah... Everyone is a hero, and right now the liberals need every bit of help they can get. 

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16 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

the win win part is Canada could now replace those meager numbers with brand new tanks, the army get some new equipment, whorah....

not necessarily

the Government could very easily go back to its "Canada doesn't need tanks" position from prior to Afghanistan

the Liberals are buying F-35, P-8 & Type 26

its very likely that the army will be starved to pay for the navy & air force

and in fairness, the army is in no shape to fight a conventional war in Europe

Canada would get much more bang for its buck by deploying F-35's, and doing ASW on the G-I-U-K Gap

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26 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Everyone is a hero, and right now the liberals need every bit of help they can get. 

this government is in its death throes, they are just kicking & screaming as they go

the real problem is that the Conservatives are totally useless af

the Conservatives will find a way to throw away any advantage they gain by Trudeau blowing himself up

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36 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

 the liberals look like they are supporting the military whorah, on on the inter national front we are supporting Ukraine, plus increasing our NATO commitment GDP spending even closer to the 2 % mark more whorah...

except, NATO doesn't even have the stockpiles of weapons to keep up with the demands in Ukraine

and every other NATO country will be struggling to rebuild their own stockpiles

so even if Canada has the money to spend, there won't be much available on the market for Canada to buy

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  • 4 weeks later...

Justin is under pressure to send troops to Haiti from US president almost sure the US president does not know the current state of our military, or he would not be asking, Will Justin have the balls and tell him, or will he be a yes man, and be willing to accept he is out of his league and let our military pay with their life's for his incompetency or lack of balls . And what will Canadians do will they support our troops with new training and equipment or turn their back on them like Afghanistan. This conflict is a lose, lose opportunity, nobody wins, it is time to stand up and tell our allies we are not ready for any conflict, tell them to leave us alone for any military assistance, or present a plan to rebuild...

Canada’s military wary of U.S. request to take on Haiti mission | Watch (msn.com)

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What makes Biden think his voice is going to be heard in Canada , when all the other US presidents have been brushed off like dirt on our jeans...Everything that this country holds near and dear is in crises mode, or nearing collapse, we can't even control a few border points, patrol our own air space, our health care is in taters, or education system believes there is a one million genders, lets not forget we are all racists... How did Canadians let all this happen, with out saying anything...do we not care ?  

Biden visit puts Canadian defence spending, Norad modernization back under microscope (msn.com)

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