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Will Multiculturalism be Canada's Achilles Heel (Downfall)?


blackbird

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2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Wow. What you're describing, Ben is called 'disagreement'. 

The was self-evident.  Way to waste your breath.  

2 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And as I recall I described you as being dishonest for making things up I hadn't said.

I didn't make anything up.  You clarified what you meant and my interpretation of your foolishness was confirmed.  You're ignorant.  I'm not saying that as someone outraged by your comments.  I'm saying that because you say stupid things that are clearly, demonstrably false from the start, and then double-down and dig your heels in saying even stupider things to back yourself up.  Gems like:

19 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Ours went through the reformation, which is why you don't find mainstream Christian clerics thundering fire and brimstone and demanding people be killed. It's why you don't have mobs of shrieking Christians trying to burn someone alive for Blaspheme. It's why we have a secular society and they do not.

The Reformation?  How much do you know about that?  I suspect very little.  Not only was it in the 1500's, but it also represented a schism and a significant divergence in Christianity.  One side "reformed" and the other side did not.  Hundreds of years after the Reformation, protestants were still burning blasphemers alive and Catholics were still committing atrocities in the name of God around the world.  While we're talking about "Judeo-Christian values", why don't we talk about how it supported hundreds of years of slavery, or the religious pogroms and Inquisitions in Europe.  Have you heard about concentration camps?  ?

 

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18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are a typical liberal/ NDP calling those who disagree with you "racist".  That is the calling card of liberal-left.

Better look up the definition of racist.  To be a racist one must be biased against a race.  I oppose false religion and evil ideology and do not want more of that brought into this country.  That is not racist.   

Third world people have many problems.  But that should not determine Canada's immigration policy.  A country has the right to only take in people who will be a benefit to their country and not cause harm.  The proof that Socialism and liberalism is harmful would fill many books.   

Right now the Socialist ideology is causing a crisis in the public health care system.  The liberal NDP promise everything but they are unable to deliver by putting sufficient money into it.  They do not put enough money into the health care system and yet won't allow people to pay for some private care themselves.  That is evil Socialism.  A vast number of people in BC need image scanning for cancer but the system does not have enough resources to take care of these people.  Many might receive screening too late.  Cancer can spread fast.

The liberal NDP care nothing about anything except votes in the immigration policy. 

1) Religion or Political Affiliation should not be a deciding factor in who can come to this country. 

2) We already have an immigration policy that favours people who will be a financial benefit to society. 

You're racist because you're making black assumptions on people based on the country they hail from. 

You've said that you think Catholics are a real religion. Should we not allow people from Italy into the country anymore? 

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35 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Tommy also believed in Eugenics. But never mind. The modern Left seems to have little time for Christianity because the most cherished polices of the Left clash so often with the beliefs of major Christian denominations on issues like abortion and gay rights. The Left are willing to ignore such policies from 'bipoc' religions but not from what they see as 'white' Christianity (it's not really)

A lot of "BIPOC" people are Christian as well. 

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Well that's just silly.  The idea of the separation of church and state is most notable as coming from the framers of the American constitution, though those people in turn took the concept from the Enlightenment, esp philosophers like John Locke, who, since he died in seventeenth century was unlikely to have been influenced by communism.

The matter of separation of church and state has a different interpretation depending on who you ask.  Those who oppose Christianity or the Bible and who may be atheists or agnostics, will give you one extreme interpretation.  Others who believe the U.S. was or is a Judeo-Christian culture will give you a different understanding.

My opinion at this point is all the separation of church and state means is the government shall not make any laws establishing a state religion or state denomination as exists in some countries.  Freedom of religion for everyone shall be the law or no religion if that is what someone chooses.  That exists now.  There is no law establishing a religion and no law establishing a state church.

Separation of church and state does not mean elected members of government cannot have religious beliefs and it does not mean they cannot pass laws that reflect their religious beliefs.   There always have been many laws that are based on Christian religious beliefs.  

The modern progressives and anti-Christians are saying nobody can bring in a law based on Christian beliefs.   That is total nonsense.  The separation of church and state does not mean the country cannot have laws based on Christian teachings because that is what morality is all about.

An example is the Mormon religion in earlier times believe in polygamy.  That was considered immoral by orthodox Christianity and was outlawed.  That has nothing to do with separation of church and state.

quote

Until well into my life-time, the overwhelming majority of Americans believed that the United States was a Christian nation. In believing that, they did not desire the persecution of other religions, nor did they want to see people forced to become Christians, nor did they believe that one Christian denomination should be favored at the expense of others. They rejected the concept of one Christian denomination functioning as an established national Church, as the Churches of England and Scotland still do today in Great Britain.

But Americans overwhelmingly believed that Christian ideas and principles should receive favorable treatment and that its understanding of Moral Law should undergird the laws of the United States and the individual states. When other people’s religious practices came into conflict with Moral Law, Moral Law, not the practices of other religions, was always supreme. People were free to believe as they saw fit, but they could not practice their beliefs when those practices ran contrary to morality; they had to live by the Christian based laws of the United States. This can readily be seen through the decisions of the United States Supreme Court. As one example of how this has been worked out, one may note Davis v. Beason cited below, where Mormons were forbidden to practice polygamy, an early tenet of their faith, because it was contrary to Moral Law as understood by historic Christianity.     unquote

ChristianObserver.org » The United States Constitution and Christianity

 

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3 hours ago, blackbird said:

You are a typical liberal/ NDP calling those who disagree with you "racist".  That is the calling card of liberal-left.

Better look up the definition of racist.  To be a racist one must be biased against a race.  I oppose false religion and evil ideology and do not want more of that brought into this country.  That is not racist. 

So Hitler wasn't a racist either then? I mean Jews exist in many colours like everyone else. So hating a group by religion isn't racist by your books.
Personally judging false religions and evil ideologies is a point fake Christians normally expose themselves on.

So like I said, for the umpteenth time, ditch the preaching.

Religion is about the last thing we select immigrants on. That should be clear after the way Canada once treated Komagata Maru and Jews trying to come here before the war.

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3 minutes ago, herbie said:

So Hitler wasn't a racist either then? I mean Jews exist in many colours like everyone else. So hating a group by religion isn't racist by your books.
Personally judging false religions and evil ideologies is a point fake Christians normally expose themselves on.

So like I said, for the umpteenth time, ditch the preaching.

Religion is about the last thing we select immigrants on. That should be clear after the way Canada once treated Komagata Maru and Jews trying to come here before the war.

You misinterpreted what I said.  I said third world immigrants in general have a different ideology.  It could be because of their false religious systems or it could be because they are willing to accept Socialism or Communism.  They have no Christian belief system to defend themselves with.  Socialism and liberalism lead to evil laws and government and the denial of fundamental freedom as in Cuba, N. Korea and other places.  

People who oppose western Judeo-Christian civilization or morality should not be admitted.  It is as simple as that.  Jews should be welcome because they support Judeo-Christian beliefs and morality.   Howevers liberals did not welcome them in the case of the Komagata Maru.  That is an example of liberal's anti-Semitism at that time.

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4 hours ago, Boges said:

A lot of "BIPOC" people are Christian as well. 

Yes, I'm aware. But they reflexively see it so. Which is why the Roman Catholic church's position on abortion angers them but they shrug off the anti-abortion views of Islamic mosques and organizations.

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48 minutes ago, herbie said:

Religion is about the last thing we select immigrants on. That should be clear after the way Canada once treated Komagata Maru and Jews trying to come here before the war.

We should never select out people because we don't like their religion. However, there is something to be said about deselecting religious fanatics and fundamentalists because they would be least likely to adapt well or integrate into a secular, tolerant society. I've read several stories of refugees in Western Europe having their citizenship applications turned down because they would not shake hands with a member of the opposite sex, for example.

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54 minutes ago, herbie said:


Personally judging false religions and evil ideologies is a point fake Christians normally expose themselves on.

So like I said, for the umpteenth time, ditch the preaching.

 

We do have freedom of religion and freedom of expression.  Get off your high horse and quit trying to silence others.  You know nothing about what a fake Christian is or a false religion or what it means.  You have already proven you don't read or pay attention to the Bible.  

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4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The was self-evident.  Way to waste your breath.  

I'm trying to go slow and keep things simple based on who I'm trying to communicate with. I get the idea complex ideas frustrate you.

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I didn't make anything up.  You clarified what you meant and my interpretation of your foolishness was confirmed.

No, Ben. I believe your ideological blinkers have blinded you to more than just reality. It's kind of difficult to honestly misinterpret "Islam still espouses medieval social beliefs on women, gays, Jews, etc.", which is what I said, to "all 2 billion Muslims around the world agree on everything", which was your 'interpretation'. 

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You're ignorant.  I'm not saying that as someone outraged by your comments. 

This is clearly untrue. You can lie to anonymous people on a web site, Ben, but don't lie to yourself.

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I'm saying that because you say stupid things that are clearly, demonstrably false from the start,

And yet what you call 'false' is merely that your ideological viewpoint puts a different spin on reality than most of the rest of us have.

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The Reformation?  How much do you know about that?  I suspect very little.  Not only was it in the 1500's, but it also represented a schism and a significant divergence in Christianity.  One side "reformed" and the other side did not.  Hundreds of years after the Reformation,

Well, but you have to understand, Ben, that the Enlightenment and Reformation were not instant changes in thinking. They played out over centuries. And I'm not doubting awful things were still done in the name of Christianity for some time. But I'm not comparing Christianity of the 1600s or 1700s with Islam of today. I'm comparing Christianity of today with Islam today.

And while protestant fanatics might well have been burning Christians alive centuries ago they're not doing it today. And Islamic fanatics ARE. 

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

While we're talking about "Judeo-Christian values", why don't we talk about how it supported hundreds of years of slavery, or the religious pogroms and Inquisitions in Europe.  Have you heard about concentration camps?  ?

Sure, but every religion condoned slavery. And it was, surprise, the Christians who, because of the Enlightenment, began to realize slavery was a bad thing. They not only stopped it within their own territories they forced others to stop it, including the Islamic world, which had been bringing slaves up the east coast of Africa for a thousand years.

And once again you're trying to compare the western Christianity of days gone by with the Islam of today. You need to use a more realistic comparison, Ben. And you really would do better not to get so upset merely because someone says something as obvious as that modern Islamic scholars and clerics still condone death for blasphemy and apostasy. Or that Islam is appallingly misogynistic. These are facts your ideological constraints may not be able to embrace, but facts nonetheless.

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Why waste your breath on those who think multiculturalism is all about religion?
Everyday human interaction is not based on what we believe but what you know. As you can see a lot on this forum can't figure that out. Completely unable to distinguish political, religious, or practical ideologies from each other.

This country is far better because of the mix of people, as is the USA even if too many of them haven't figured that out yet. And I agree with that except for extremist, fundamentalist comment. That's why I show Christian Ayatollahs no quarter either.

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10 hours ago, Boges said:

1) Religion or Political Affiliation should not be a deciding factor in who can come to this country. 

2) We already have an immigration policy that favours people who will be a financial benefit to society. 

You're racist because you're making black assumptions on people based on the country they hail from. 

You've said that you think Catholics are a real religion. Should we not allow people from Italy into the country anymore? 

Black civil servants file discrimination complaint against federal government with United Nations (msn.com)

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5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

No, Ben. I believe your ideological blinkers have blinded you to more than just reality. It's kind of difficult to honestly misinterpret "Islam still espouses medieval social beliefs on women, gays, Jews, etc.", which is what I said, to "all 2 billion Muslims around the world agree on everything", which was your 'interpretation'. 

There's nothing to interpret here.  My God man. ? The distinction you're drawing is absolutely meaningless.  You're literally just confirming your foolishness and shitty reasoning.      

Your bolded, uniform and sweeping judgment on what you witlessly think Islam even means is wrong from the start.  You could, perhaps, say that "Some/many Muslism still espouse..." or even point to various Islamist countries with draconic and barbaric laws/practices.  That would hold some water.  Saying that Islam itself does, however, is moronic and self-evidently false by simple virtue of all the secular Muslim countries around the world who do not.  

You sound like one of those trailer park buffoons:
"Well some black people are okay."

 

patrickdumb.png

Edited by Moonbox
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Many activists such as the federal liberal-NDP government, antifa, BLM, groups in universities, and various organizations and individuals have already decided that if you are Caucasian you are guilty of white supremacy and systemic racism.

  Actual proof or evidence is not required.  The fact you are a colonial or descendant of a colonizer makes you guilty and you are expected to support affirmative action programs that will give special consideration to minorities in every facet of life.  New systems or affirmative action programs must be put in place to give preferential treatment to minorities to combat the colonial state's systemic racism.

"In a settler colonial state like Canada, systemic racism is deeply rooted in every system of this country. This means the systems put in place were designed to benefit white colonists while disadvantaging the Indigenous populations who had lived here prior to colonialism. This power dynamic continues to be upheld and reinforced in our society, extending its impact on new racialized citizens."

Systemic racism: What it looks like in Canada and how to fight it?   | VPFO | UBC

Part I – Systemic racism and discrimination in the Defence Team: Origins and current reality - Canada.ca

"CAP Translation: When it comes to debate or dialogue within Canadian society regarding racism, there is to be no questioning of Liberal government positioning:

Canada is a racist nation stepped in perpetual white privilege. The descendants of the colonial founders of our country have racism and bigotry “built into their brains.”

Canadian society is intrinsically anti-black, not to mention anti-Muslim, anti-Sikh, anti Jewish, as well as haters of homosexuals. PM Justin Trudeau has informed society that white Canadians are genocidal toward First Nations peoples.

Let the punishment begin. What CBC has buried away is the fact that the punitive measures toward our people has been in place for some forty years. The catalysts was Liberal PM Pierre Trudeau and  two pieces of governance which exist to transfer power away from Canadians of Anglophone and European heritage."

"White Privilege, Systemic Racism" BUILT INTO Society: Canadian Human Rights Commission (capforcanada.com)

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The policy of "multiculturalism" adopted about 50 years ago really laid the groundwork for what is happening now.

"How about a betrayal of democracy itself? The lie that Justin Trudeau is working for “all” Canadians when only 3rd World Canada really counts to our government.

The attack upon Canadian of European heritage is the biggest betrayal of all. This began in 1968 with Pierre Trudeau, and has been brought to its apotheosis in the year 2020 by Justin Trudeau.

When haters rule. For CAP, this is the essence of our downfall– as well as the “core identity” which has transferred Euro-Canadians into a social trash bin."

"White Privilege, Systemic Racism" BUILT INTO Society: Canadian Human Rights Commission (capforcanada.com)

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1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The policy of "multiculturalism" adopted about 50 years ago really laid the groundwork for what is happening now.

"How about a betrayal of democracy itself? The lie that Justin Trudeau is working for “all” Canadians when only 3rd World Canada really counts to our government.

The attack upon Canadian of European heritage is the biggest betrayal of all. This began in 1968 with Pierre Trudeau, and has been brought to its apotheosis in the year 2020 by Justin Trudeau.

When haters rule. For CAP, this is the essence of our downfall– as well as the “core identity” which has transferred Euro-Canadians into a social trash bin."

"White Privilege, Systemic Racism" BUILT INTO Society: Canadian Human Rights Commission (capforcanada.com)

the heritage of Canada is not European

the heritage of Canada is the British Empire

the British Empire was never part of Europe

and the British Empire was always multicultural

there is no core identity to being British

the United Kingdom itself has no core identity

the English, Scots, Irish & Welsh were all sworn enemies

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12 hours ago, herbie said:

Why waste your breath on those who think multiculturalism is all about religion?
Everyday human interaction is not based on what we believe but what you know. As you can see a lot on this forum can't figure that out. Completely unable to distinguish political, religious, or practical ideologies from each other.

This country is far better because of the mix of people, as is the USA even if too many of them haven't figured that out yet. And I agree with that except for extremist, fundamentalist comment. That's why I show Christian Ayatollahs no quarter either.

the difference is that America has founding principles which anyone can rally around

anybody can be an American,

simply by defending & upholding the idea of America, the Declaration of Independence

Canada has no such founding principles

Canada has simply been cobbled together in an ad hoc fashion

Canada really has no stated purpose, other than rejecting the American idea

which simply results in a void, which Canadians struggle to fill

it's not the immigrants imposing this void upon Canada

it's not the immigrants fault that Canada has no national identity and never really did

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13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

There's nothing to interpret here.  My God man. ? The distinction you're drawing is absolutely meaningless. 

Uhm, no it's not. I concede, however, that I had accidentally overestimated your understanding of the English language. I will try to be even more obvious.

 

13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Your bolded, uniform and sweeping judgment on what you witlessly think Islam even means is wrong from the start. 

It's not a judgement, Ben. It's a factual statement. You need to learn the difference between the two.

And please, try to calm down. You're getting upset again.

 

13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You could, perhaps, say that "Some/many Muslism still espouse..."

Approximately 99.99% of Muslim scholars and clerics,  you mean?

I don't believe 'some' is a proper synonym for that.

13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Saying that Islam itself does, however, is moronic and self-evidently false by simple virtue of all the secular Muslim countries around the world who do not.  

Well, Ben, to start with, you've misunderstood the distinction between referring to Islam the religion and referring to the level of observance from its followers.

Second, I'm not aware of any secular Muslim nations. But perhaps I'm not entirely up on some of the very small, out of the way ones. Please do find me a secular Muslim nation where Muslim and unbelievers enjoy the same status under law and where there are no laws against blaspheme, homosexuality, apostacy and such, and where women enjoy the same legal status as men.

13 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You sound like one of those trailer park buffoons:
"Well some black people are okay."

Again, Ben, you've misunderstood the difference between reading and listening. There is no sound to reading unless (and I accept this is probably likely) you have to sound out each word as you run your finger across the screen in order to read. But the sound you hear is your own voice.

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8 hours ago, blackbird said:

Many activists such as the federal liberal-NDP government, antifa, BLM, groups in universities, and various organizations and individuals have already decided that if you are Caucasian you are guilty of white supremacy and systemic racism.

Actual proof or evidence is not required.  The fact you are a colonial or descendant of a colonizer makes you guilty and you are expected to support affirmative action programs that will give special consideration to minorities in every facet of life. 

Why do you take this so personally?  I didn't do anything wrong did you?

I can see how people who work for official institutions that are guilty might feel a little of that rubbing off and try to deflect/project it away from themselves but it's not like people are hounding you or spitting on you in the street.

That said I can also see how taking it personally the way you choose to would serve to indicate you fundamentally approve of the racist and systemic nature of the colonization that took place.  Of course some people will take that personally.

Give it time, a few more generations and a little more social evolution could make a world of difference. In the meantime, chill out a little. It's not all about you or even really on you.

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50 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Why do you take this so personally?  I didn't do anything wrong did you?

I can see how people who work for official institutions that are guilty might feel a little of that rubbing off and try to deflect/project it away from themselves but it's not like people are hounding you or spitting on you in the street.

That said I can also see how taking it personally the way you choose to would serve to indicate you fundamentally approve of the racist and systemic nature of the colonization that took place.  Of course some people will take that personally.

Give it time, a few more generations and a little more social evolution could make a world of difference. In the meantime, chill out a little. It's not all about you or even really on you.

Just more proof of the insanity of the liberal-NDP government.  Should we be concerned?  Yes.    Should we panic?  No.  But this kind of radical government ideology will have negative effects on everything they do or touch.  The Canadian Forces is a good example.  Morale must be at an all time low in the Canadian Forces as they have the woke ideology forced on them.  That is the last thing a country needs.  It will be the same in the civil services.

Edited by blackbird
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11 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Just more proof of the insanity of the liberal-NDP government.  Should we be concerned?  Yes.    Should we panic?  No.  But this kind of radical government ideology will have negative effects on everything they do or touch.  The Canadian Forces is a good example.  Morale must be at an all time low in the Canadian Forces as they have the woke ideology forced on them.  That is the last thing a country needs.  It will be the same in the civil services.

Any Canadian Government going forward will embrace multiculturalism. 

The only way PP forms a majority is if he runs a slate of South Asians in select ridings in BC and Suburban Toronto. 

Heck PP's wife is from Latin America. He'd be a hypocrite if he embraced your bigoted ideologies. 

Edited by Boges
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11 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Approximately 99.99% of Muslim scholars and clerics, you mean?

Thanks for continuing to deliver perfect quotes to encapsulate your ignorance!

11 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Well, Ben, to start with, you've misunderstood the distinction between referring to Islam the religion and referring to the level of observance from its followers.

Your stuck on a distinction that doesn't exist, supposing that "Islam" is a monolithic and uniform institution and that the only difference is how much Muslim you are.  unintelligent.thumb.png.2a1e966f3a1bcdf30b65ecc73842a488.png

11 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Second, I'm not aware of any secular Muslim nations. But perhaps I'm not entirely up on some of the very small, out of the way ones.

Try the biggest one of all.  Indonesia (with +90% Muslim population) isn't as free/secular as, say, Canada, but it's  unrecognizable from places like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, where the worst practices and worst offenders among the faith constitute your Bubba interpretation of what "Islam" is.  Honour killings, niqabs and killing infidels!  That's what it's all about, right?!  ?

Edited by Moonbox
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We happen to be talking about multiculturalism in Canada.

So why keep steering things to what other people/religions/governments are doing somewhere else? Simply  to maintain the foolish myth that that is exactly who "the gov't them" are courting to emigrate here?
I keep running into people who think a plane load of British immigrants are all gonna be WASPs in 2022....

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3 hours ago, Boges said:

Any Canadian Government going forward will embrace multiculturalism. 

The only way PP forms a majority is if he runs a slate of South Asians in select ridings in BC and Suburban Toronto. 

Heck PP's wife is from Latin America. He'd be a hypocrite if he embraced your bigoted ideologies. 

Multiculturalism has led to:

“Now is the time for all Canadians, but especially non-racialized Canadians, to listen, learn and reflect on how white privilege and systemic racism contribute to injustice and inequality in this country.”  - the woke liberal left.

This proves how evil multicultural ideology is.  Non-racialized Canadians are being put on the defensive even though they did nothing wrong.  The problem originates with a band of NDP-Liberal warped thinkers who were not willing to respect and defend western Judeo-Christian civilization.   They found there is more votes to be had from the third world.

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11 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

the difference is that America has founding principles which anyone can rally around

anybody can be an American,

simply by defending & upholding the idea of America, the Declaration of Independence

Canada has no such founding principles

Canada has simply been cobbled together in an ad hoc fashion

Canada really has no stated purpose, other than rejecting the American idea

which simply results in a void, which Canadians struggle to fill

it's not the immigrants imposing this void upon Canada

it's not the immigrants fault that Canada has no national identity and never really did

"Peace, order, and good government"

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace,_order,_and_good_government

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