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Conservative Leadership September 10th


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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

The people they represent include all manner of small-minded, uneducated, pig-ignorant people. To say nothing of criminals.

No, but politically, viewpoints, differences of opinions, interests, agendas in a complex modern society? Should they be represented? Or only mentioned by talking heads in never-ending shows?

 

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What do you believe would change under such a system?

For example we could actually get many more meaningful answers. We could actually make visible change in the government. We can have governments admitting wrong decisions and taking responsibility for them. We can have governments by coalitions that actually understand and represent interests in the society. But do we want any of this? Do we want to be informed, active and engaged citizens in this age I mean for real, not in a pretty beavertale picture book? That is the real, primary question.

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15 hours ago, I am Groot said:

What is your point here? His policies are not designed to do anything more than let him preen and pose in front of the progressive media. He certainly doesn't care if they hurt ordinary people. The urban liberals who are his election targets don't seem to get the connection between Canada's economic health and the health of our natural resource industries. 

I think you got my point.

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17 hours ago, myata said:

No, but politically, viewpoints, differences of opinions, interests, agendas in a complex modern society? Should they be represented? Or only mentioned by talking heads in never-ending shows?

 

For example we could actually get many more meaningful answers. We could actually make visible change in the government. We can have governments admitting wrong decisions and taking responsibility for them. We can have governments by coalitions that actually understand and represent interests in the society. But do we want any of this? Do we want to be informed, active and engaged citizens in this age I mean for real, not in a pretty beavertale picture book? That is the real, primary question.

The only excuse for a substantial change in how politicians get elected should be better government. Going by the examples in Europe, or elsewhere, like Israel, I've seen nothing to suggest that is a likely outcome. I agree it would be technically good to be able to represent all corners of society. But in a parliament without any clear majority this also gives fringe parties far and away more power to impact the entire country than their small number of electors justify.

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1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

should be better government.

"Better" is a word - but what does it mean? Does it mean better healthcare? Does it mean high speed trains as routine reality, connecting not only countries but the continent? Does it mean more questions that are answered by the governments (SNC-Lavalin)? What we see and like to see is what we get. There will be no pleasant surprises.

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making  crazy statements already i see its Irving that imports the oil not trudeau.. whats pierre gonna do go tell his  partys oil buddies irving to  stop importing oil and use canadian only? i doubt the conservatives  have the balls to do that lmao plus goodluck  trying to order them to do that lol.. he has no solution for  the oil and gas  in canada all he knows how to do is attack attack and attack but offfer 0 solutions.

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14 hours ago, myata said:

Quid muto? Suggested as a the national motto, way more meaningful and distinct than Ad mare. Fiji and Vanuatu are ad mare, Russia too c'mon people we can do way better.

When you have something that works pretty well making a big change is more likely to break it than to significantly improve it.

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15 hours ago, Jack9000 said:
making  crazy statements already i see its Irving that imports the oil not trudeau.. whats pierre gonna do go tell his  partys oil buddies irving to  stop importing oil and use canadian only

Wanting to be energy self sufficient is not a cray idea. Not wanting to be reliant on uncertain dictatorships who can use that oil against you the moment they get irritated is also not a good idea. Just ask any clients of either Russia or China.

What to do? How about building a pipeline to eastern Canada? It's unlikely Irving would need much convincing since Canadian oil, being landlocked, is cheaper than the world priced version.

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15 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

making  crazy statements already i see its Irving that imports the oil not trudeau.. whats pierre gonna do go tell his  partys oil buddies irving to  stop importing oil and use canadian only? i doubt the conservatives  have the balls to do that lmao plus goodluck  trying to order them to do that lol.. he has no solution for  the oil and gas  in canada all he knows how to do is attack attack and attack but offfer 0 solutions.

Fact is that Eastern  Canada, Martitimes specifically, cannot get "Canadian" oil or gas. No pipelines to the east allowed. He will stop importing oil in 5 years? How? By building a pipeline through Quebec?? Good luck with that one LOL

Polievere is very aware of this and his statement is false rhetoric and divisive.

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Fact is that Eastern  Canada, Martitimes specifically, cannot get "Canadian" oil or gas. No pipelines to the east allowed. He will stop importing oil in 5 years? How? By building a pipeline through Quebec?? Good luck with that one LOL

Polievere is very aware of this and his statement is false rhetoric and divisive.

Quebec would rather have their oil supplied by dirtier transport trucks and trains.  Incredible that they forget Lac Magentic.  I still think it’s worth piping it to Ontario and distributing from there.  We already use Great Lakes ships for oil, so we can send them down the St. Lawrence Seaway, but it’s dirtier and more expensive than pipelines 

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2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Fact is that Eastern  Canada, Martitimes specifically, cannot get "Canadian" oil or gas. No pipelines to the east allowed. He will stop importing oil in 5 years? How? By building a pipeline through Quebec?? Good luck with that one LOL

Polievere is very aware of this and his statement is false rhetoric and divisive.

yep thats why everytime he talks about it i roll my eyes .. you arn't getting a pipeline thru quebec so stop trying to take us atlantic canadians as fools..

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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Wanting to be energy self sufficient is not a cray idea. Not wanting to be reliant on uncertain dictatorships who can use that oil against you the moment they get irritated is also not a good idea. Just ask any clients of either Russia or China.

What to do? How about building a pipeline to eastern Canada? It's unlikely Irving would need much convincing since Canadian oil, being landlocked, is cheaper than the world priced version.

pipeline to eastern canada is a fine idea.. but quebec will never allow it to go thru there and pierre knows this.. 

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5 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

pipeline to eastern canada is a fine idea.. but quebec will never allow it to go thru there and pierre knows this.. 

Quebec has no choice in the matter. The federal government has full authority over getting goods to port. Quebec's oil supply has recently been threatened by Michigan. I think that provides an opening for the feds to persuade Quebec not to go too apeshit on them over this.

Edited by I am Groot
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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Quebec has no choice in the matter. The federal government has full authority over getting goods to port. Quebec's oil supply has recently been threatened by Michigan. I think that provides an opening for the feds to persuade Quebec not to go too apeshit on them over this.

Won't work didn't work for Harper won't work for Pierre either you don't understand how much Quebec won't accept one lol 

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17 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

Won't work didn't work for Harper won't work for Pierre either you don't understand how much Quebec won't accept one lol 

Harper was never a guy to push things. His politics was all about pragmatism. He bowed to Quebec again and again. Not that it ever got him anything back.

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On 9/16/2022 at 5:23 PM, I am Groot said:

Quebec has no choice in the matter. The federal government has full authority over getting goods to port. Quebec's oil supply has recently been threatened by Michigan. I think that provides an opening for the feds to persuade Quebec not to go too apeshit on them over this.

Hows that going in BC??

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3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Having the authority and having the courage to use it and brave the political fallout are entirely different things.

But you'll note the objections of BC's government have been largely ignored.

And.... the pipeline is still not being built or going very slowly being interrupted by BC, indigenous et al.

Bottom line is that it will not help Canada, just the profits to the companies. It is Quebec and East that needs Canadian oil.

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