Conservative Leadership September 10th

[Jack9000]

15 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

There are social programs that we have we need in this country, like health care, welfare programs, etc but today we are funding social programs that do not benefit everyone, like child care that is being sought after, for one it only benefits people making less than 36, k a year and only opens a few thousand space up in each province, the cost 9 bil the first year and 3 to 4 bil each year after...money that could go into our health care which we all desperately need.

Lots of liberal voters are quoting the same thing "the devil you know", thats a cop out really, everyone knows exactly what or what he did not do while Justin was in office for 8 years, Knowing that and still supporting those actions surprises the shit of me, and in supporting him you have agreed to everything he has done, lied, deceived the public on numerous issues, SNC. gun control, firing of the justice minister, the list goes on for a long ways....And if those actions are ok with you, then in my opinion it shows poor character or judgement pick one or the fact that you blindly throw your vote to one party regardless of the candidate, and that is always good voting practices once again showing poor judgement or character. 

What scares you about any of the conservative candidates, if you don't mind me asking ? 

 

 

Some of them like pierre   are   similiar to harper which  I found even a worse pm then Trudeau is  tbh. If a moderate like otoole was or   charest,Brown, chong  maybe even rempel depnding on how she campaigned  I  could live with.  Otoole actually had my vote or close to it the first  couple weeks still he started flip flopping  half way thru and panicing basically then I just voted Ndp since its the party i agree with on most things   since I didn't really care if it was trudeau or otoole that won tbh.  Moderate conservatives I can get along with but  its when they go to the right like harper/pierre does I got no interest in voting for that and will choose the opposite party with best chance of beating them most times.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Jack9000

[WestCanMan]

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

And i agree i like her better than Pierre, but does she have what it takes to defeat Justin... Becasue right now i'd vote for a 3 legged green goffer, with one eye and no balls if i knew they could defeat Justin. 

Exactly.

My first choice right now isn't "the person who'd make the best PM", it's "the person with the best shot at beating Trudeau".

IMO that's Lewis and Pierre.

Brad Wall is a dark horse, a guy who could just win hearts and minds with positivity and common sense like Jack Layton did, but we can't bet on a dark horse right now. 

[Army Guy]

13 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

Some of them like pierre   are   similiar to harper which  I found even a worse pm then Trudeau is  tbh. If a moderate like otoole was or   charest,Brown, chong  maybe even rempel depnding on how she campaigned  I  could live with.  Otoole actually had my vote or close to it the first  couple weeks still he started flip flopping  half way thru and panicing basically then I just voted Ndp since its the party i agree with on most things   since I didn't really care if it was trudeau or otoole that won tbh.  Moderate conservatives I can get along with but  its when they go to the right like harper/pierre does I got no interest in voting for that and will choose the opposite party with best chance of beating them most times.

I agree i did not vote at all last election because of O Tooles flopping around, and while max did have some good ideas, he was over the top for me, ...What do you mean right like harper, or Pierre ? which policies of theirs don't you not like ? what scares you about the right ?

 

[Jack9000]

1 minute ago, Army Guy said:

I agree i did not vote at all last election because of O Tooles flopping around, and while max did have some good ideas, he was over the top for me, ...What do you mean right like harper, or Pierre ? which policies of theirs don't you not like ? what scares you about the right ?

 

I actually debated not voting lol. but 2 many people I know say  if you dont vote you can't complain so I went to the polls lol. but ye  neither of my parents have voted in the last 2 elections either  they hate the conservatives but  don't love trudeau so just stay home lol.

1:Harper raised old age to 67 which was just a stupid move when mps get there pension at 55 and heartless in my opinion..

2:he didn't do anything for the environment I understand we have oil and should use it but you got to balance  it with environment  also  somehow

The right  scares me because if you listen to some of them they slowly stealing things trump used for 4 years with how they talk to the media etc.  last thing we need in canada is trumpism Lite which is why I want a moderate leader.. even peter mackay I could get behind  although he did a lousy job with most portfolios harper gave him lol

[Moonbox]

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Why is it we can discount him , based on his performance in the Conservative government , he was after all on strings like everyone else...do we have hard examples of him in a major leadership role... and if not we are only guessing so far... i can honestly say I'm not a big fan of Pierre, but i do like some of his policies he has announced... and i'm sure we are not done hearing the same from different candidates

His economic policies are going to be irrelevant.  The Conservatives lose federal elections over social issues, time and time again. It's why O'Toole lost despite Trudeau's poor performance and Poilievre's record on this front is abysmal.  No amount of economic policy is going to overcome the dredging up of this dude's anti-abortion or anti-LGBT stances, and that's just the tip of the iceberg with him.  

14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Justins all or nothing rhetoric has not been tuned out why is his message so different ?

If Pierre wins the Conservative leadership, all Justin will have to do is keep his head down.  Whatever Poilievre's supporters want to fool themselves into thinking, the trucker protestors and anti-vaxx conspiracy wieners were on the wrong side of science and were deeply unpopular across most of Canada.  While those bozos might be thrilled that he's hitched his wagon to that cause, it's a lost one and will bury him.  We'll need an actual adult to hold Justin to account for his divisive role in all of this, not an inflammatory demagogue who will scare Canadians more than Justin ever did.   

[Moonbox]

16 hours ago, West said:

Once again arguing something I'm not. ?

You'll have to make it clear what you are actually arguing then, because you and others keep bringing it up Klaus Schwab and the WEF up in every thread as if it's a critical point in all of these varied discussions.  ?

[West]

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

You'll have to make it clear what you are actually arguing then, because you and others keep bringing it up Klaus Schwab and the WEF up in every thread as if it's a critical point in all of these varied discussions.  ?

It's relevant in that it's a major influence over policy such as what I've already outlined. 

[Moonbox]

17 hours ago, ironstone said:

Sensitivity training, race and gender diversity etc are far more important to the Liberals than having a sound economy along with a strong oil and gas sector. Promoting woke nonsense over basic common sense does not benefit the country.

Calling sensitivity training woke nonsense is why nobody's listening to you.   

17 hours ago, ironstone said:

How high is the price of gas going to go? $2,$3 $4 per litre or more? Does anyone in the Liberal government care about record levels of inflation that Canadians have to deal with? That cost get's passed onto virtually everything. Affordable energy was one of the things that allowed us to have such a high standard of living.

Spiking energy prices are a worldwide (and shorter-term) issue and nothing the Liberals or anyone else do will solve it for us in the near-term.  The debacle and short-sightedness of Alberta oil being bottlenecked is a clear and obvious policy blunder for both Liberals and the Democrats in the USA, but I imagine you have very little understanding of how much Keystone or Northern Pacific Pipelines would have solved the inflation we're seeing today.  

17 hours ago, ironstone said:

I expect Trudeau will do nothing to tackle the rise of inflation and instead will continue with the politically correct nonsense and the endless selfies. He doesn't have a real plan , he's just an actor.

and so is Pierre, performing for his Alberta base.  

Good thing that inflation is more a Bank of Canada and private-industry problem to solve.   

[Moonbox]

3 minutes ago, West said:

It's relevant in that it's a major influence over policy such as what I've already outlined. 

Why is it relevant? 

What exactly do you find so noteworthy that Canada  is influenced by global thinking in a global economy?  ?  

 

[Charles Anthony]

Folks, 

If you do not avoid thread derailment yourselves, then I will make you avoid thread drift myself. 

[West]

Just now, Moonbox said:

Why is it relevant? 

What exactly do you find so noteworthy that Canada  is influenced by global thinking in a global economy?  ?  

 

I've started a new thread. Go discuss why you think the sustainable development agenda is valid there 

[Jack9000]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Exactly.

My first choice right now isn't "the person who'd make the best PM", it's "the person with the best shot at beating Trudeau".

IMO that's Lewis and Pierre.

Brad Wall is a dark horse, a guy who could just win hearts and minds with positivity and common sense like Jack Layton did, but we can't bet on a dark horse right now. 

Brad wall would beat trudeau way easier then pierre  or lewis in my opinion

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Calling sensitivity training woke nonsense is why nobody's listening to you.   

Spiking energy prices are a worldwide (and shorter-term) issue and nothing the Liberals or anyone else do will solve it for us in the near-term.  The debacle and short-sightedness of Alberta oil being bottlenecked is a clear and obvious policy blunder for both Liberals and the Democrats in the USA, but I imagine you have very little understanding of how much Keystone or Northern Pacific Pipelines would have solved the inflation we're seeing today.  

and so is Pierre, performing for his Alberta base.  

Good thing that inflation is more a Bank of Canada and private-industry problem to solve.   

I gather that you're well versed in something like sensitivity training and I am not. Would I be correct in assuming that it would cover every identifiable group with the exception of straight white males?

The skyrocketing price of energy would likely not be near as bad if so many countries that could exploit oil and gas reserves chose not to do so and instead rely on places like Russia and Saudi Arabia. Stopping fracking and oil drilling makes no sense to me while asking hostile countries to produce more for us at the same time. Trudeau doesn't really have a plan other than to proclaim electric cars will solve everything. Nothing about how realistic that is or how our grid simply is not up to the task. Nothing about the enormous obstacles in recycling batteries either. That goes back to being pragmatic, or not.

All politicians perform to their base and only tell people what they want to hear.Trudeau is no exception, he caters mostly to naive progressives.

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

Brad wall would beat trudeau way easier then pierre  or lewis in my opinion

He's from Saskatchewan, the least sexy place on earth for a GTA or Que voter. He's as anglophone as he could possibly be. He doesn't have an ounce of shallow virtue signalling in his body.

I just don't think this is the era where a pragmatic, cisgender white politician from a conservative party can compete against an all-style, no substance himbo. I'd be betting on Trudeau & the MSM, scandals and all.

[Jack9000]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

He's from Saskatchewan, the least sexy place on earth for a GTA or Que voter. He's as anglophone as he could possibly be. He doesn't have an ounce of shallow virtue signalling in his body.

I just don't think this is the era where a pragmatic, cisgender white politician from a conservative party can compete against an all-style, no substance himbo. I'd be betting on Trudeau & the MSM, scandals and all.

torys don't need to win big in quebec to form government harper proved that.. Pierre will be attacked for his views/way he speaks  trumpish like at times.. lewis will be attacked for her views on issues   Brad wall is clearly the most electable in ontario  then the 2 o fthem.

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Calling sensitivity training woke nonsense is why nobody's listening to you.     

You can call it anything you want, it's really racial division 101, and it's not actually beneficial to minorities. 

If my kid was a POC I wouldn't be letting anyone tell them that their opportunities were limited because of their skin colour because that's motivation-destroying bullshit. 

I also don't care what people think of slavery, which ended 160 years ago. White people didn't invent it, and it has been normal on every square inch of the globe for all 5,000 years of recorded history, but white people did end it. It's not like white people got caught 'holding the bag' either: if slaver guilt is in the DNA then everyone has it. 

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Spiking energy prices are a worldwide (and shorter-term) issue and nothing the Liberals or anyone else do will solve it for us in the near-term.  The debacle and short-sightedness of Alberta oil being bottlenecked is a clear and obvious policy blunder for both Liberals and the Democrats in the USA,

Here's the thing Moonbox. You shouldn't be electing politicians based on their ability to realize that they screwed up.

You should be picking the people who are smart enough to make the right choices on day 1 so that the future is as good as it can be, instead of getting caught in a protracted 'catch-up' phase.

Open borders, defund police, no-cash bail, scaling back serious crimes to call them misdemeanours, not prosecuting gun crime, etc are examples of catastrophically stupid Dem policies, but nothing beats killing the energy sector like Biden and Trudeau both did gleefully.

Throwing covid cash around to buy votes was stupid, and both leftist parties in NA racked up monumental CC debt which is really going to hurt in the long run.

The supply chain crisis is partly a function of the covid cash windfall that left a lot of able-bodied people sitting on their asses, and a shortage of goods always drives inflation.

Printing bajillions of dollars always devalues your currency (drives inflation).

The raise in the price of energy is a huge driver of inflation. 

The leftists, 'those champions of the poor', have done nothing but divide people along racial lines and create inflation. 

"Yay, raise the minimum wage!!!!" (By less than inflation lol)

And rising costs hurt poor people more than wealthy people. Prince William can afford to fly from state to state in his private jet regardless of whether the cost of gas goes up by 500%, he won't even notice it. Then he'll preach to you and I about our gas-guzzling hybrids. I'll be the only one disregarding him. 

Dr Petersen spoke of it this way:

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"What happens is that in any system that's hierarchical—and left wingers know this because it drives their whole philosophy—when you stress the system, the disproportionate amount of that stress falls on the people who are in the lower rungs because they're barely hanging on anyways.

There is the old saying, 'When the aristocracy gets a cold, the working class dies of pneumonia.' So fine, increase energy costs. Well, what happens? A bunch of poor people fall off the map and the more you increase the energy cost, the more that happens."

 

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but I imagine you have very little understanding of how much Keystone or Northern Pacific Pipelines would have solved the inflation we're seeing today.  

Literally everything is on a bell curve, like the Laffer Curve. At the one end there's a 0% and at the other there's 100% and the sweet spot is always somewhere in the middle. 

We don't want to create fuel like jackasses and get the price back below 50 cents/L. We don't want to import hundreds of tankers full of oil either. Somewhere there's a sweet spot, and it's not "get down on our knees and beg OPEC to increase production". 

There never were any projections showing that alternative sources of energy were going to take the place of petroleum as fast as leftists were killing energy production here. It was stupid. 

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and so is Pierre, performing for his Alberta base.  

Look back at recent history Moonbox. Were conservative strategies 'playing to Alberta's base' or would they have served us well?

FYI if we lost all of those SNC jobs the vast majority of those people would have just gone and worked for other firms within Canada. The loss to our tax base and our job market would be minimal. 

Not so with the shrinking energy sector. We lose our tax base and we lose income from our exports and we also have to pay other countries for their energy. It's like stupid piled on stupid heaped on stupid. Only in NA do we say "Let's leave our oil in the ground and just import some from 5,000 miles away, to save the environment??????" lol. 

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Good thing that inflation is more a Bank of Canada and private-industry problem to solve.   

Ugh. If I would have read this first I wouldn't even have bothered to start lol. 

[WestCanMan]

41 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

torys don't need to win big in quebec to form government harper proved that.. Pierre will be attacked for his views/way he speaks  trumpish like at times.. lewis will be attacked for her views on issues   Brad wall is clearly the most electable in ontario  then the 2 o fthem.

I don't live in Ont so I can't speak for Ontario voters, but there was no excuse to vote for Trudeau in the last election. I'm not expecting sanity to come from the GTA.

[Zeitgeist]

There’s no perspective on just how left Canada has become.  People are worried about losing abortion rights in a country where it’s legal to abort up to the day before a baby is scheduled for delivery and Trudeau said that anyone who isn’t pro choice can’t have a government funded job?

People are worried about LGBTQ rights in a country where conservative mayors attend Pride parades and the major banks and schools fly rainbow flags?

Canada is out to lunch on the meaning of centrist policies, let alone conservative ones.  There are no conservative policies in Canada.  Putin knows this and funds green activists here as he expands oil and gas production.  It’s a joke.  The Canadian electorate has been taught to worry about weird shit.  We barely have a military and we’ve undermined our resource development, yet the government actively seeks to reduce citizens’ rights and piles carbon taxes on top of sky high gas prices.  It’s insane.

Trudeau and Singh have completely sold out working people and families for some creepy notion of an international green totalitarian post-national state.  They’ll get re-elected.  It’s a one-party system and the opposition are eternally construed as racist-fringe-Nazi both by government and state-funded press.  There’s no outside to the Liberal Party of Canada.   No free press either.  

Edited March 5, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Jack9000]

39 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't live in Ont so I can't speak for Ontario voters, but there was no excuse to vote for Trudeau in the last election. I'm not expecting sanity to come from the GTA.

lol well I voted ndp but it wouldn't matter anyway my riding has been solid liberal winning everytime since 90s. although its been getting closer last couple elections but ye. I can't see Pierre or lewis  getting the gta on there side.. brad will I think would have best shot.

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

His economic policies are going to be irrelevant.  The Conservatives lose federal elections over social issues, time and time again. It's why O'Toole lost despite Trudeau's poor performance and Poilievre's record on this front is abysmal.  No amount of economic policy is going to overcome the dredging up of this dude's anti-abortion or anti-LGBT stances, and that's just the tip of the iceberg with him.  

If Pierre wins the Conservative leadership, all Justin will have to do is keep his head down.  Whatever Poilievre's supporters want to fool themselves into thinking, the trucker protestors and anti-vaxx conspiracy wieners were on the wrong side of science and were deeply unpopular across most of Canada.  While those bozos might be thrilled that he's hitched his wagon to that cause, it's a lost one and will bury him.  We'll need an actual adult to hold Justin to account for his divisive role in all of this, not an inflammatory demagogue who will scare Canadians more than Justin ever did.   

Two issues that are pretty much set in stone, reversing them or not supporting them will be suicide for anyone, , I will give Justin campaign team kudo's on using that in past elections, when it was not even an issue, both candidates did not counter that claim very well, when all sides knew it was a lie... it would be better if he lead with that saying he supports it over and over...or come up with policy's that support that...or come up with a better lie about Justin

I think a lot of people have had enough of Justin, or so i hope...and it is time for him to go, if he was smart he'd pass on the reigns to someone else...other than another minority he is done... If he comes out with a excellent health care plan and climate change plan while cutting the Carbon taxes , lowering education fees, building pipelines across the country... maybe even finding a way to get our natural gas to Europe those issues are what voters might compromise on changing their votes for... besides Canadians don't have very good memories, truckers protest and anti vaxxers will be a dead issue by then...

That and Justin always finds a way to step in shit before an election, the cons have failed to run with that while not stepping in their own...He could always take a page from Justins book and buy his way into office with tons of false promises...

[Army Guy]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

1. Calling sensitivity training woke nonsense is why nobody's listening to you.   

2. Spiking energy prices are a worldwide (and shorter-term) issue and nothing the Liberals or anyone else do will solve it for us in the near-term.  The debacle and short-sightedness of Alberta oil being bottlenecked is a clear and obvious policy blunder for both Liberals and the Democrats in the USA, but I imagine you have very little understanding of how much Keystone or Northern Pacific Pipelines would have solved the inflation we're seeing today.  

and so is Pierre, performing for his Alberta base.  

3. Good thing that inflation is more a Bank of Canada and private-industry problem to solve.   

1. Nobody is listening becasue we live in an era that will get you canceled for a few lines on twitter...we have given these huge lobby groups the keys to the castle and the power to destroy careers and lives, even more dangerous is perhaps not calling it out or letting it fester, policy's like critical race theory being taught in schools, as well as one million genders... WTF

2. It seems a lot of problems lie at the feet of global affairs, War, fuel prices, inflation...and while not totally the fault of Justins government he does have the power to negate or soften the blow... any real excuse is enough for fule prices to go up, trump farts in the wind.,...shit prices just went up 10 cents, war in Ukraine, we barely import oil from Russia , My point is theri could have been something done to lower prices , like temporary freeze on Carbon taxes or other taxes on fuel...something... i mean we already spent close to 500 bil on the pandemic...

3. It is a Bank of Canada issue, But you don't think they would take Justins calls with a recommendation, or even an order to raise interest rates...remember he did just that in the SNC scandal, and nothing happened there, so why not to the bank of Canada...

The point here is , most of the fault is with global issues out of the control of Justin, but also doing nothing to either soften the blow, or perhaps take action to prevent it from happening in the future...seems to be this liberal governments goto, do nothing and wait for it to blow over...

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

People are worried about LGBTQ rights in a country where conservative mayors attend Pride parades and the major banks and schools fly rainbow flags?

In short, yes. The CAQ is conservative and confusing gender and sex even more since a recent court ruling. I have little reason to believe that the CPC or PPC wouldn't muck things up even more. That being said, it's already messed up where it comes to birth certs and IDs. It'll be awhile before we realize that birth certificate, medical ID = sex and driver's licence and passport = gender. Context of which is more relevant isn't something 99% of people have to think about

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Nexii said:

In short, yes. The CAQ is conservative and confusing gender and sex even more since a recent court ruling. I have little reason to believe that the CPC or PPC wouldn't muck things up even more. That being said, it's already messed up where it comes to birth certs and IDs. It'll be awhile before we realize that birth certificate, medical ID = sex and driver's licence and passport = gender. Context of which is more relevant isn't something 99% of people have to think about

I think those things can be worked out to a large degree.  There’s more controversy around the use of biotech to alter gender identity.  I think thoughtfulness and goodwill will bring resolutions, but we’re in new territory with medical advances.  I hear your concerns.  

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Two issues that are pretty much set in stone, reversing them or not supporting them will be suicide for anyone, , I will give Justin campaign team kudo's on using that in past elections, when it was not even an issue, both candidates did not counter that claim very well, when all sides knew it was a lie...

It's not a lie.  The Liberals get the CPC over and over on these same issues.  It's insane.  They know that the leaders cozy up with the fundamentalist base during their leadership bids, and these are issues that those folks care about.  When the Liberals bring them up in an election campaign, however, it's a line in the sand for Canadians.  They need to know that the CPC leader will uphold these basic rights or they won't vote for him.  You can't straddle the line or be vague like O'Toole was.  You need to be clear and emphatic like Harper was when he assured gay and abortion rights would not be debated in his government.  

Pierre Poilievre already has a huge target on his back over these issues because he's been so emphatically and clearly against them in the past.  Him winning the CPC leadership would be a gift for the Liberals and they'd have a field day dredging up old videos and quotes of his positions on these issues.  

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I think a lot of people have had enough of Justin, or so i hope...and it is time for him to go, if he was smart he'd pass on the reigns to someone else...other than another minority he is done... If he comes out with a excellent health care plan and climate change plan while cutting the Carbon taxes , lowering education fees, building pipelines across the country... maybe even finding a way to get our natural gas to Europe those issues are what voters might compromise on changing their votes for... besides Canadians don't have very good memories, truckers protest and anti vaxxers will be a dead issue by then...

I couldn't agree with you more on all of that.  To take Trudeau down and implement these changes, however, you want a sober adult rather than a demagogue like Pierre Poilievre.  Michael Chong, Jean Charest, Peter Mackay or even Patrick Brown could all win.  Pierre Poilievre will scare all but the most committed CPC lifers off.  I've voted Conservative 100% of the time provincially in Ontario and all but twice federally, but there's absolutely no f'ing way I'd vote for Poilievre.  

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1. Nobody is listening becasue we live in an era that will get you canceled for a few lines on twitter...we have given these huge lobby groups the keys to the castle and the power to destroy careers and lives, even more dangerous is perhaps not calling it out or letting it fester, policy's like critical race theory being taught in schools, as well as one million genders... WTF

Nobody's listening because rather than provide reasonable arguments and examples of woke overreach, folks overreact and spout hyperbole and slippery-slope arguments about the downfall of white/canadian culture etc or whatever other nonsense.  

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

2. It seems a lot of problems lie at the feet of global affairs, War, fuel prices, inflation...and while not totally the fault of Justins government he does have the power to negate or soften the blow...

Global affairs are global problems.  Trudeau and Biden screwed up royally on pipelines and it will likely cause Biden problems at mid-terms.  Regardless of whether Keystone or other pipelines went forward, however, it would have had little impact on today's oil prices.  

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

3. It is a Bank of Canada issue, But you don't think they would take Justins calls with a recommendation, or even an order to raise interest rates...remember he did just that in the SNC scandal, and nothing happened there, so why not to the bank of Canada...

No.  The Bank of Canada operates independent from government and Justin trying to dictate policy to it would faceplant.  

[Moonbox]

10 hours ago, ironstone said:

I gather that you're well versed in something like sensitivity training and I am not. Would I be correct in assuming that it would cover every identifiable group with the exception of straight white males?

I am not and I imagine no.  The question itself demonstrates your attitude on these issues, however.  ?

10 hours ago, ironstone said:

The skyrocketing price of energy would likely not be near as bad if so many countries that could exploit oil and gas reserves chose not to do so and instead rely on places like Russia and Saudi Arabia. Stopping fracking and oil drilling makes no sense to me while asking hostile countries to produce more for us at the same time. Trudeau doesn't really have a plan other than to proclaim electric cars will solve everything. Nothing about how realistic that is or how our grid simply is not up to the task. Nothing about the enormous obstacles in recycling batteries either. That goes back to being pragmatic, or not.

Agreed.  

10 hours ago, ironstone said:

All politicians perform to their base and only tell people what they want to hear.  Trudeau is no exception, he caters mostly to naive progressives.

Sure, but Trudeau does a much better job staying on brand and understanding which way the wind is blowing.  Pierre Poilievre is an inflammatory demagogue and has way too much baggage on social issues even before he hitched his wagon to the deeply unpopular freedom convoy.  As outraged as you folks got about Trudeau's divisive rhetoric, the reality is that he was echoing the average Canadian's sentiment.  That didn't make it right and the Emergency Act was a huge blunder, but you're fooling yourselves if you think the Freedom Convoy came out on top of that whole debacle.