Mandatory Covid vaccination in Canada now a possibility.

[Accountability Now]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

So fully half are not fully vaccinated even though they come from only 15% of the population.

Your claim is not right for a number of reasons:

1. Fully half as described above includes those with unknown status. Can't include those if you don't know

2. You say 'not fully vaccinated'. Even excluding the unknowns, you are including the partially vaccinated (5.6%) and the unvaxxed (17.1%) which would actually be 22.7% and not 15%. May not be important now but those numbers are constantly changing with increases for vaxxed. It will be good to have solid goal posts

[Accountability Now]

12 minutes ago, eyeball said:

How much would you like to bet it means vaccination squads sticking needles into the arms of screaming babies they've just ripped from their screaming parent's arms?

That's what I mean. The chances of doing just that are next to none. That's why I want to know what they do mean by mandatory vaccination. 

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, Aristides said:

 

So you would uproot your family and move to another country to avoid restrictions in Canada that will not remain forever to move to a country where the rules could change at any time. No we never had a Battle of Britain and that's why Canadians don't know WTF they are talking about when it comes to living with restrictions. My father was in the RCAF and my mother was an English war bride.

Then how do you give up freedom so easily?

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

That's what I mean. The chances of doing just that are next to none. That's why I want to know what they do mean by mandatory vaccination. 

What it looks like will probably be all over the map like everything else but the lack of vaccine squads will be universal. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by eyeball

[Winston]

22 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

I love how they group numbers to their benefit. According to the website, the numbers are:

Unvaxxed: 123

Partially Vaxxed: 18

Fully Vaxxed: 137

Unknown: 107

So let me regroup this in a different but still true way:

Of the 385 in ICU, 262 or 68% have some vaccination or vaccination status unknown. 

 

Even still with these numbers what do they mean? Nothing, nothing valuable can be established with them unless other characteristics are knowing, reason for ICU admission, age, comorbidities. More data is required before a conclusion can be established. 

[myata]

2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

that are next to none.

We moved from "no vaccine passports" to of course, passports! in a matter of couple of weeks. You could be surprised what a month or two of incessantly drumming propaganda could do.

[Accountability Now]

Just now, Winston said:

Even still with these numbers what do they mean? Nothing, nothing valuable can be established with them unless other characteristics are knowing, reason for ICU admission, age, comorbidities. More data is required before a conclusion can be established. 

100% correct. I have argued from the beginning that the binary they have imposed (vaccinated versus unvaxxed) is only part of the story.  However they have had the numbers to justify their position up till now.  Not sure about other provinces but Alberta posted the number of people with cases, hospitalization, ICU and Deaths based on pre-exisiting conditions. As you can see, this is the true binary

 

[Accountability Now]

7 minutes ago, myata said:

We moved from "no vaccine passports" to of course, passports! in a matter of couple of weeks. You could be surprised what a month or two of incessantly drumming propaganda could do.

I guess I'm still holding out hope that there is an ounce of rational thinking in most vaccinated people. The vast majority of people I know who got vaxxed didn't want to. They got vaxxed assuming they would get to return to normal life which has not happened and now they are hinted at needing a third dose to keep your special status. At this point there will be more people who become 'unvaxxed' and more people pissed. 

[myata]

3 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

At this point there will be more people who become 'unvaxxed' and more people pissed. 

Not to mention that maintaining trust means respect, meaningful explanation, intelligent conversation but someone just taking it for granted, by default and position talking down we here in the know, so you just do. It will play out at some point, if not right away.

[Aristides]

28 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Then how do you give up freedom so easily?

I don't, I just don't have shit fits over inconveniences that will not be in place forever. Right now protecting our health care system has to be the #1 priority. Complain about our health care system all you want but it is the one we are stuck with for at least the near future.

[Zeitgeist]

21 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I don't, I just don't have shit fits over inconveniences that will not be in place forever. Right now protecting our health care system has to be the #1 priority. Complain about our health care system all you want but it is the one we are stuck with for at least the near future.

Inconveniences?  Clearly you’re retired and don’t have to circulate much, nor do you want to.  

[Winston]

55 minutes ago, Accountability Now said:

100% correct. I have argued from the beginning that the binary they have imposed (vaccinated versus unvaxxed) is only part of the story.  However they have had the numbers to justify their position up till now.  Not sure about other provinces but Alberta posted the number of people with cases, hospitalization, ICU and Deaths based on pre-exisiting conditions. As you can see, this is the true binary

 

Interesting results.

Also if we incorporate age: https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm

Incorporate your data, we can determine risk, given that all "cases" are covid causal and the reason for ICU admission or death. 

 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Winston

[Accountability Now]

5 minutes ago, Winston said:

Incorporate your data, we can determine risk, given that all "cases" are covid causal and the reason for ICU admission or death. 

That certainly would be another factor. I know in the UK where they track those fairly well, saw a 30% drop in Covid hospitalizations when they started tracking. 

Aside from that, I think its interesting to note that based on that data above, 22.3% of ICU admissions were people with no pre-existing conditions. This, however, does not include age in the mix. If we add pre-existing conditions and age then I have to believe that number would be even lower. 

My largest frustration with this process has been the data (or lack of data) and then the biased representation of the data.

[Aristides]

22 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Inconveniences?  Clearly you’re retired and don’t have to circulate much, nor do you want to.  

Unless you have lost your job or business, it is an inconvenience. I'm not a hermit, I like to do stuff too.

[Zeitgeist]

49 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Unless you have lost your job or business, it is an inconvenience. I'm not a hermit, I like to do stuff too.

You have no idea.  I’m a front line worker.

[Aristides]

20 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You have no idea.  I’m a front line worker.

Good for you. Why do you want to make your job more dangerous?

[Winston]

1 hour ago, Accountability Now said:

That certainly would be another factor. I know in the UK where they track those fairly well, saw a 30% drop in Covid hospitalizations when they started tracking. 

Aside from that, I think its interesting to note that based on that data above, 22.3% of ICU admissions were people with no pre-existing conditions. This, however, does not include age in the mix. If we add pre-existing conditions and age then I have to believe that number would be even lower. 

My largest frustration with this process has been the data (or lack of data) and then the biased representation of the data.

Based on Alberta data, accounting for age and conditions the risk factor for ICU demand cases may be: 

 

There appears to be not a significant difference between ICU cases with those having more than 3 conditions vs those than have no conditions, maybe the maximum is around 20-50% difference. 

However looking into the age groups, it appears there is a huge difference, where most of the risk is for 60+ age group. 

But if you examine the same data for deaths, age and conditions, the results are quite different, nearly up to 14% risk factor for 80+ age group with 3 or more conditions. 

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm#pre-existing-conditions

Data based on ICU no conditions 22.3% and 3 or more conditions 33.4%

https://www.alberta.ca/stats/covid-19-alberta-statistics.htm

[-TSS-]

If there is a virus that is one which has made some people completely lose their minds! Made them gone mad! 

That's the only conclusion one can make of what has happened recently. 

[Shady]

If the government, provincial or federal, mandate vaccines, I hope they get the shit sued out of them.  As time goes on, new side effects are discovered.  Remember that the emergency authorization use of the vaccines skipped the normal years long trials.  The government gave the pharmaceutical companies full legal immunity, but the government themselves can still be held liable.

 

[BubberMiley]

 

[Shady]

8 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

 

This is a tremendous example of a otherwise logical thinking person going stark raving mad from Branch Covidianism.  Soon he’ll be saying the same thing about people not getting multiple boosters.

 

Edited January 9, 2022 by Shady

[Shady]

I tend to have more sympathy for the selfish characterization of unvaccinated unhealthy people.  They want to have their cake and eat it too, pun intended.  If you live a very unhealthy lifestyle you should probably get vaccinated.  If you lead a healthy lifestyle, you haven’t been, nor will you be a burden on the health care system.  The science shows us that.

[Accountability Now]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

 The science shows us that.

The science shows it but its not pushed by the media or our government, hence the reason these people don't get it.

[BubberMiley]

It's hilarious watching rabid pro-life wingnuts suddenly believe in personal body autonomy because they're scared of a jab. Somehow they think they have the right to kill others by spreading the virus to them.

Edited January 9, 2022 by BubberMiley

[Zeitgeist]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

Good for you. Why do you want to make your job more dangerous?

I just don’t fear it.  People I work with who are much less healthy than I am have made quick recoveries.  I was surprised actually.  Exposure means we are living with the virus.  No big deal.