Winston Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: This is the latest update. https://www.cp24.com/news/ont-says-385-covid-19-patients-now-in-icu-31-more-virus-related-deaths-confirmed-today-1.5732704 Thanks for the update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 3 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: So if I say being born white is not a choice this means I am saying that all white people should be put in concentration or extermination camps based on your logic?????!!!!!!!! I asked you to clarify what you meant? What comparisons are making between Germany and today? If the argument is, the difference is choice, there are serious problems with the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winston Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 7 minutes ago, Aristides said: So fully half are not fully vaccinated even though they come from only 15% of the population. Sure, I am merely pointing out that the numbers suggested were not for the current data set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 11 minutes ago, Aristides said: asked to do very little to enjoy Whose choice is it to do, and judge how much it means: a) the government b) individual c) both. Note that one choice is China and one does not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 26 minutes ago, Aristides said: So are you going to take antiviral treatments that have had even less testing than the vaccines which keep most people out of hospitals in the first place. Those treatments need to be taken early during infection which means you will have to get tested for every sniffle to find out if you actually have covid or it might be too late for them to keep you out of a hospital. I’ll do whatever I want to protect myself. I don’t fear Covid or care whether I or anyone I know tests positive or if they’re vaccinated. All I care about is that people have the best options available to them to protect themselves. They can decide for themselves how vaccinated, drugged, and masked they want to be. Covid is everywhere. If you’re triple-vaccinated, masking yourself to the hilt, and staying away from people, Aristides, I think you’ll be just fine. Stop imposing your idea of safety on everyone else. Live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yzermandius19 Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Aristides said: Life's a bitch and then you die. Grow up. so stop whining about the unvaccinated then follow your own advice Edited January 8, 2022 by Yzermandius19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1. There's any number of personal choices that result in disproportionally higher use of public health resources. Examples: smoking; obesity; overdose. This was never a problem before. As long as a very high fraction of resources is not consumed by a choice group, it cannot be a valid reason to impose the choice. Proportionality is not an argument. 2. In highly dangerous and highly infectious epidemics a vaccine can be imposed from public health considerations (consider plague, ebola or similar). This is not the case. The disease is not highly dangerous except for specific groups, and the treatments do not prevent infection and spread so this argument does not apply either. 3. Public health system in Canada is not free. It is paid for by the citizens who make their choices. If care can be denied based on personal choices, then citizens should have an option to not contribute to the system and seek care elsewhere. It is not owned by bureaucrats distributing care as they see fit but by the citizens who are paying for it. At this time there's no rational, objective arguments for mandatory, forced and otherwise coerced vaccinations. Please do not repeat what has already been proven wrong. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 hours ago, myata said: Whose choice is it to do, and judge how much it means: a) the government b) individual c) both. Note that one choice is China and one does not exist. Hey, if you lived in any of the Scandinavian countries or Switzerland you would have to do compulsory military service. I guess they are all like China too. In Canada you are required to do next to nothing for your country and its freedoms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 51 minutes ago, Aristides said: Hey, if you lived in any of the Scandinavian countries or Switzerland you would have to do compulsory military service. I guess they are all like China too. In Canada you are required to do next to nothing for your country and its freedoms. Separate issue. Don’t conflate issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 49 minutes ago, Aristides said: next to nothing for your country and its freedoms You call letting bureaucrats decide what to inject into you and when just because they think it would help their crumbling system "nothing"? And intriguing scale. But one point I agree with you on: it's a serious problem when people are not invested into democracy, their rights and freedoms, they stop seeing a value in them protect them and defend. And then they go. And they are left with governments arbitrarily deciding what they should do and what to do to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Separate issue. Don’t conflate issues. No it isn't. Canadians aren't required to do SFA for their country and its freedoms other than pay taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, myata said: You call letting bureaucrats decide what to inject into you and when just because they think it would help their crumbling system "nothing"? And intriguing scale. But one point I agree with you on: it's a serious problem when people are not invested into democracy, their rights and freedoms, they stop seeing a value in them protect them and defend. And then they go. And they are left with governments arbitrarily deciding what they should do and what to do to them. Like every other country, Canada is putting restrictions on the unvaccinated. See if you can do better elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Like every other country, Canada is putting restrictions on the unvaccinated. See if you can do better elsewhere. Florida and most US states, UK, Sweden, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Florida and most US states, UK, Sweden, etc What's keeping you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: What's keeping you? Actively getting my kids passports and looking at property in UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Actively getting my kids passports and looking at property in UK. Sweden and the UK have about the same vaccination rate as Canada. In the UK over 80% have had two shots and over 60% have had boosters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 Just now, Aristides said: Sweden and the UK have about the same vaccination rate as Canada. In the UK over 80% have had two shots and over 60% have had boosters. It’s about the restrictions. I only want my family to live in free societies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said: It’s about the restrictions. I only want my family to live in free societies. That could change tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: That could change tomorrow. Yeah not so much. I have faith in Floridians to protect freedom. The Brits accept a certain level of risk. They keep calm and carry on. They know the value of freedom. Canadians seem to be forgetting. I guess we never had a Battle of Britain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 46 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Separate issue. Don’t conflate issues. Stop conflating seperate words, mandate and force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Yeah not so much. I have faith in Floridians to protect freedom. The Brits accept a certain level of risk. They keep calm and carry on. They know the value of freedom. Canadians seem to be forgetting. I guess we never had a Battle of Britain. So you would uproot your family and move to another country to avoid restrictions in Canada that will not remain forever to move to a country where the rules could change at any time. No we never had a Battle of Britain and that's why Canadians don't know WTF they are talking about when it comes to living with restrictions. My father was in the RCAF and my mother was an English war bride. Edited January 8, 2022 by Aristides Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 5 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Latest Ontario statistics. Ontario Health Minister Christine Elliott said of those in the ICU, 248 are not fully vaccinated or have an unknown vaccination status while 137 are fully immunized. I love how they group numbers to their benefit. According to the website, the numbers are: Unvaxxed: 123 Partially Vaxxed: 18 Fully Vaxxed: 137 Unknown: 107 So let me regroup this in a different but still true way: Of the 385 in ICU, 262 or 68% have some vaccination or vaccination status unknown. If vaccination status is unknown then it can't automatically be included in the side you want to pump up your numbers. I do find it really interesting how the goal posts have been moved so much and no one seems to care. First it was the unvaccinated getting infected and being the ones to spread it. They found out that wasn't true so the shift went to hospitalizations. Then the vaxxed started filling up the general hospital beds so the new posts are the ICU. Just a heads up....those numbers are shifting too. What do you think the government is going to focus on when the ICU has a high percent of fully vaxxed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 29 minutes ago, eyeball said: Stop conflating seperate words, mandate and force. I am curious to see what mandatory means in their eyes. Key thing at this point is Duclos went out of his way to say this was just his personal opinion but these guys aren't that dumb as they know that whatever they say is spoken on behalf of the government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 The vaccinated outnumber the unvaccinated by almost six to one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eyeball Posted January 8, 2022 Report Share Posted January 8, 2022 2 minutes ago, Accountability Now said: I am curious to see what mandatory means in their eyes. How much would you like to bet it means vaccination squads sticking needles into the arms of screaming babies they've just ripped from their screaming parent's arms? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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