vaccine passports workers being abused

Winston · November 17, 2021

32 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Not really. Vaccinated cases are coming from a continually increasing percentage of the population. Unvaccinated cases are coming from a continually decreasing percentage of the population.

http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/data#variants

Oct 01 "Vaccine coverage in BC, 28 Sep, 1 dose (2 doses): 78% (72%) of total population"

Nov 04 "Vaccine coverage in BC, 2 Nov, 1 dose (2 doses): ~80% (76%) of total population"

This means since Oct 01 to November 04 there has been a 4% increase in the fully vaccinated population. But there has been a 8 % increase in hospitalized fully vaccinated individuals. Accounting for the 4% population increase, this results in a 4% increase in hospitalized vaccinated individuals from October to November, according to the numbers given.

For the unvaccinated there is a 12% drop in hospitalized unvaccinated individuals. Accounting for a 4% decrease in unvaccinated population, this results in a 8% decrease in hospitalized unvaccinated individuals.

Why is there a 4% increase in the hospitalized vaccinated individuals?

Why is there a 8% decrease in hospitalized unvaccinated individuals?

Infidel Dog · November 17, 2021

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

Hospitalizations per 100K people

Unvaccinated 23.7 per 100k people

Fully vaccinated 1.3 per 100k people

23.7 divided by 1.3 = 18.23 to one.

That isn't even math, it's simple arithmetic.

They aren't completely accurate to the source. They only cover 2 weeks and they edit out the single vaccination stat. Here's a screen grab of the actual numbers the way your source offered them.

And here's a quote directly from your source:

Quote

From Nov. 4 to 10, people who were not fully vaccinated accounted for 61.0 per cent of cases and from Oct. 28 to Nov. 10, they accounted for 68.9 per cent of hospitalizations, according to the province.

That isn't 20 to 1, Mathman. Why do I have to keep reminding some people that imagining what you'd like to be true isn't the same thing as truth. I wonder why that seems so difficult for them to comprehend.

Winston's figures aren't 20 to 1 either. And Winston isn't presenting his figures as the totality of truth covering all Covid everywhere for all time. You want us to believe your massaged figure for 2 weeks in British Columbia does that.

It doesn't.

But it doesn't matter. You're just going to keep repeating your cherry picked, edited numbers and trying to pass them off as the totality of truth, no matter how useless I show you they are. Aren't you?

Edited November 17, 2021 by Infidel Dog

myata · November 17, 2021

As said, I'm not sure how much trust can be vested into public data produced by the health authorities in this country, examples of manipulation at least on the level of definitions and interpretations have been reported. But it isn't difficult to find the results of resent studies, as well as information in the news pointing that both infection and transmission is possible and can be common in the vaccinated population. It means that the spread in q-vaccinated offices and environments cannot be prevented and shoots down the "public safety" rationale for total q-vaccination, including forced and coerced. No other strong reasons overriding individual rights concerns have been put forward, explained and defended. The project is moving from the type of ill-substantiated strategy to sheer bureaucratic recklessness that is so very well familiar from the history.

blackbird · November 17, 2021

On 10/13/2021 at 8:58 AM, Goddess said:

Not agreeing with workers being abused. But I also don't agree with the citizens of this country being abused.

Dr. Patricia Daly, Chief Medical Health Officer of Vancouver Coastal Health:

I wonder how long they've known that covid transmissions do not occur in restaurants and gyms......It's certainly not about science or health. It's about control.

It's no wonder people are getting frustrated.

Congratulations on your slightly longer leash. Enjoy using it to bite and snap at your fellow citizens, while you can.

Actually, that claim that Covid transmissions do not occur in restaurants and gyms is false. Transmission is known to occur through the air people breath and wherever people are in a building sharing the same air, transmission occurs. That is the basic way Covid is spread. Covid virus are in the air in what they call aerosol, that is, a fine mist of water vapour that people breath out. The viruses are within the vapour or aerosol and just float through the air. So the normal places Covid is spread are inside buildings, homes, gyms, schools, and restaurants. Any place that is enclosed is a potential environment for Covid spread. That is why they say outdoors is far safer.

Goddess · November 17, 2021

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

Actually, that claim that Covid transmissions do not occur in restaurants and gyms is false.

I've said this over and over:

I DID NOT SAY THIS.

BC's Chief Medical Health Officer said it.

You should let her know that she is wrong. Be sure to mention your medical qualifications, too, so she knows you're more knowledgeable than she is.

myata · November 17, 2021

18 minutes ago, Goddess said:

she knows you're more knowledgeable than she is

From "travel from Wuhan" and other such episodes, could such a possibility be discarded out of hand?

myata · November 17, 2021

And if it doesn't happen there, what is the point of the "put it on while entering and going to washroom" Covid-show? There must be some sacred reason for it, please help! Druids and egyptian priests would sure know but they aren't talking.

blackbird · November 17, 2021

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

I've said this over and over:

I DID NOT SAY THIS.

BC's Chief Medical Health Officer said it.

You should let her know that she is wrong. Be sure to mention your medical qualifications, too, so she knows you're more knowledgeable than she is.

No, you said it was Dr. Patricia Daly, Chief Medical Health Officer of Vancouver Coastal Health that said it. Now you're saying it was BC's Chief Medical Health Officer who said it. Which is it? Make up your mind.

Whoever said it, they would be at odds with the great majority of experts.

myata · November 17, 2021

"Agreement of experts" is such a stretchy statement that it's almost meaningless. What "experts" and about what specifically, in which conditions and under what constraints? The policies are known to be hectic; counter-intuitive and contrary to the common sense; insufficiently explained and justified or lacking any meaningful explanation, like mask in the park or washroom. What it walks and quacks like is hastily stitched ad hoc cluelessness and hiding it behind "experts" will not add meaning or credibility.

Edited November 17, 2021 by myata

Aristides · November 17, 2021

15 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

They aren't completely accurate to the source. They only cover 2 weeks and they edit out the single vaccination stat. Here's a screen grab of the actual numbers the way your source offered them.

And here's a quote directly from your source:

That isn't 20 to 1, Mathman. Why do I have to keep reminding some people that imagining what you'd like to be true isn't the same thing as truth. I wonder why that seems so difficult for them to comprehend.

Winston's figures aren't 20 to 1 either. And Winston isn't presenting his figures as the totality of truth covering all Covid everywhere for all time. You want us to believe your massaged figure for 2 weeks in British Columbia does that.

It doesn't.

But it doesn't matter. You're just going to keep repeating your cherry picked, edited numbers and trying to pass them off as the totality of truth, no matter how useless I show you they are. Aren't you?

20.4 divided by 1.2 = 17 to 1

27.6 divided by 1.2 = 23 to 1

Aristides · November 17, 2021

4 hours ago, Goddess said:

I've said this over and over:

I DID NOT SAY THIS.

BC's Chief Medical Health Officer said it.

You should let her know that she is wrong. Be sure to mention your medical qualifications, too, so she knows you're more knowledgeable than she is.

Perhaps you could supply a link for that.

Goddess · November 17, 2021

29 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Perhaps you could supply a link for that.

Already done.

Aristides · November 17, 2021

2 hours ago, Goddess said:

Already done.

Where?

Zeitgeist · November 17, 2021

It’s criminal and fascist to make people show passports to enjoy basic freedoms. With almost all eligible people vaccinated we shouldn’t need them. Our government has become oppressive and diabolical. What’s more, in workplaces like mine with vaccine mandates, workers are forced to wear masks and visors. What’s the upside of vaccination when the vaccinated must wear masks and face continued restrictions on travel, socializing, and other behaviour? You are being oppressed. End all restrictions immediately!

That workers are being forced to enforce our oppression is so unethical, especially when many of them oppose restrictions.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Zeitgeist

myata · November 18, 2021

48 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That workers are being forced to enforce our oppression is so unethical, especially when many of them oppose restrictions

That's a common funnel of fallacy: if restrictions are ineffective in solving the problem (and they weren't because not based on sound strategy supported by evidence) the only option is to make them stricter and more severe. We can see this trend developing, distancing and lockdowns to distancing, masks and lockdowns, now distancing, masks and q-vaccinations and who can assure that should the cases reach certain mark, as they did in some vaccinated countries, the exsperts wouldn't come waving hands let's have a lockdown?

Zeitgeist · November 18, 2021

I don’t buy into government responses that infringe on freedom without a damn good reason. Making fully-vaccinated people wear masks at work and inside businesses and public buildings tells you that vaccination hasn’t restored your freedoms. Even the fully vaccinated must pass Covid tests in order to travel. Even though all of the vulnerable age groups can get vaccinated and almost all of these people are, they must continue to carry and show vaccine passports to enjoy basic freedoms. Why? Who are we protecting? They’re the protected. The few unvaccinated hold outs will not overwhelm our hospitals if they get Covid, yet government continues to hound and batter them, take their jobs, and alienate them.

Our governments are disgusting. They have oppressive tactics. The sadists in organizations have been empowered and are enjoying themselves. End all restrictions immediately!

Your inaction is enabling oppression. Don’t you see that restrictions and further mandates will do nothing more to reduce the prevalence of Covid? Anyone who wants vaccines can get them and almost everyone is vaccinated. Government can continue to encourage vaccination and for people to take precautions. It should end there.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Zeitgeist

Infidel Dog · November 18, 2021

8 hours ago, Aristides said:

20.4 divided by 1.2 = 17 to 1

27.6 divided by 1.2 = 23 to 1

Yes now add the single vax stat you conveniently forgot about and admit this is a 2 week stat of a globally small demographic and many other global regions including Gibraltar, the UK, Israel, Taiwan, Iceland, Vermont and New Brunswick have had at one point or another a completely contradictory ratio of vaccinated over un.

Also this BC stat is moved by an even smaller demographic from the remote north.

And it doesn't take much to move the bar.

You do know what cherry-picking is, I hope. Have you heard that's not science and only the naive, the stupid or wishful thinkers take it seriously?

Infidel Dog · November 18, 2021

Also, I don't know if BC applies but some industrious medical bean counters inflate the unvaccinated numbers by adding any vaxxed that haven't been vaxxed for at least 2 weeks and also add patients to unvaccinated they lose the data for. I notice that last lost or never had data-for stat is completely missing from the CBC's article. Even Ontario used to offer it.

And the mRNA jab weakens over time. It's doubtful you'll be bragging about your stat in a month. What's more likely is you'll be desperately ignoring how everything has flipped.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Infidel Dog

Winston · November 18, 2021

37 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Also, I don't know if BC applies but some industrious medical bean counters inflate the unvaccinated numbers by adding any vaxxed that haven't been vaxxed for at least 2 weeks and also add patients to unvaccinated they lose the data for. I notice that last lost or never had data-for stat is completely missing from the CBC's article. Even Ontario used to offer it.

And the mRNA jab weakens over time. It's doubtful you'll be bragging about your stat in a month. What's more likely is you'll be desperately ignoring how everything has flipped.

In making light of the situation, we may see a transition into "boosted" mandates. Those that are "boosted" will have additional freedom benefits. Statistically right now "boosted" individuals make up 0% of infections, 0% of hospitalization and 0% of deaths. The statistics are quite convenient to make a case for immediate vaccine "boosted" mandates.

Zeitgeist · November 18, 2021

41 minutes ago, Winston said:

In making light of the situation, we may see a transition into "boosted" mandates. Those that are "boosted" will have additional freedom benefits. Statistically right now "boosted" individuals make up 0% of infections, 0% of hospitalization and 0% of deaths. The statistics are quite convenient to make a case for immediate vaccine "boosted" mandates.

That would mean that freedom is always promised to be just around the corner with the coming boost, but of course once most eligible people get it, it will be considered of waning effectiveness. That’s the real game, using the promise of health purity as the incentive to obey restrictions on freedom and endless vaccination. Sadly the promise never gets fulfilled. However, the controls are in place and freedoms are permanently removed. That’s very clearly what’s going on, but because this operation has been implemented incrementally, with plenty of official “research-based” backing, government announcements, and media fanfare, the slaves don’t see their chains or just how impossible it’s become to overturn restrictions. Amazing.

Edited November 18, 2021 by Zeitgeist

myata · November 18, 2021

7 hours ago, Winston said:

The statistics are quite convenient to make a case for immediate vaccine "boosted" mandates.

This is a wrong, dangerous and scary direction for a society to take. It would mean that essential limitations of citizen freedoms, including coercion and forced treatments can be made based on arbitrary interpretation of arbitrarily selected numbers by anonymous bureaucrats behind closed doors. No matter justification, there's a well-known term for it: authoritarianism. With good, healthy security or whatever best intentions, this is still authoritarianism simply because it thinks and acts like one. Intentions do not explain, justify or excuse.

No limitation of citizen rights can be acceptable in a modern democratic society without clear and strong reason; clearly explained and defended in critical questioning strategy; and for a limited time, only while critical situation continues.

-TSS- · November 20, 2021

I wouldn't have believed a year ago that in one year's time, which is now, we would still have this covid-bullshit going on but here we are.

However, I have become a pessimist. I'm absolutely sure that in one year's time from now we will still have this thing going on being urged to take our 7th jab.

OftenWrong · November 20, 2021

It follows that insurance risk is higher when workers aren’t vaccinated. And as you know, once anything comes under the purview of insurance companies, it’s game over.

It’s not just about getting shots, some workers have to sign new contactual agreements with their employers. The one I saw not only required you to agree to be double-vaccinated, but also agree to accept any and all future vaccine injections, and any other health directives issued by the health authority, and or the employer, including mrna vaccines as well as any and all chemical, elemental or biological process that is identified as pertaining to and supporting the benefit and or good of society.

Upon signing, you can no longer leave the company if you disagree to being injected the next time they say, or else no severance, and no EI. You go live under a bridge, you despicable unter-mensche.

Welcome Il Fascismo Suprimo

cougar · November 20, 2021

17 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Welcome Il Fascismo Suprimo

It will happen when people let it happen. In some countries vaccination rates are as low as 50%.

You think the government has any power over unvaccinated in this case?

myata · November 20, 2021

We are reading post-apocalypse utopias but maybe we already know something. Maybe we don't even need to imagine it anymore, just open the window, and eyes.