WestCanMan Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) Less than a month ago Biden said that a Taliban takeover was not inevitable, and there would be no scenario where the American Embassy there would be evacuated on an emergency basis. Now Jen Psaki's message to the Taliban is: "They have to make an assessment of what they want their role to be in the international community". This is a last-ditch attempt to save face, she's basically asking the Taliban not to kill Americans while they're in a full-blown retreat. Kabul is expected to be in Taliban hands in less than a month. This is just another example of Biden's abject failure. History has hundreds of examples of how feckless leadership can reduce a powerful country to be lesser than nations with less might/clout and stronger leadership. Quote Q Mr. President, some Vietnamese veterans see echoes of their experience in this withdrawal in Afghanistan. Do you see any parallels between this withdrawal and what happened in Vietnam, with some people feeling —THE PRESIDENT: None whatsoever. Zero. What you had is — you had entire brigades breaking through the gates of our embassy — six, if I’m not mistaken. The Taliban is not the south — the North Vietnamese army. They’re not — they’re not remotely comparable in terms of capability. There’s going to be no circumstance where you see people being lifted off the roof of a embassy in the — of the United States from Afghanistan. It is not at all comparable. 3,000 troops are being sent to Kabul to aid in the evacuation of the embassy. https://apnews.com/article/afghanistan-us-troops-embassy-kabul-355c48ec08fb7eb75e1e279e99c3dabf There might not be choppers on the rooftops, but this is not a well-organized tactical withdrawal now. Biden is going to be extremely lucky avoid his 2nd Benghazi moment. Edited August 13, 2021 by WestCanMan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 Biden bragged that they had trained 300,000 Afghani troops, and that they were well-armed and would be able to defend against 75,000 Taliban. Wrong. Biden was 100% wrong, as has been the case on every topic that he has chimed in on. What's even worse is that he US left all kinds of military hardware there (just like Obama did in Iraq - leading to the rise of islamic state) and soon the Taliban will control it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 Installing democracy where there's no underlying foundations in the society rarely works, there's only a handful of examples. Now that's an important lesson to ponder about. Appearance, visibility of democracy may not be the same as strong and functional democracy. No it doesn't have to be, nobody promised that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 13, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 9 hours ago, myata said: Installing democracy where there's no underlying foundations in the society rarely works Pretty much. Being a shithole country is in Afghanistan's DNA. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 It is a very sad situation. I don't think Afghanistan is ready for democracy but a Taliban tale over is turning the time back 1400 years for that nation. I feel sorry especially for women who will become slaves again under Taliban version of islam. It is so backwards and stone age that even backward mullahs in Iran have called Taliban's actions backwards, unislamic and disgrace to islam!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted August 13, 2021 Report Share Posted August 13, 2021 Afghanistan has seen about 40 years of constant war, first with the soviets then the USA. Yet the Taliban/ Mujahideen/ Afghani people are still there. Once dubbed the graveyard of empires, even the British couldnt bring her to bear. It is arguable that their fierce resistance contributed to the final downfall of the USSR. One can only stand back in amazement at this latest news coming from western leaders. Did these babies really think that after such a long and pointless war, the people would want to fight each other? Are they that stupid to misunderstand the Afghanis after so long? Or what idiot would want civil war after fighting invaders for 40 years. On the contrary. I’ll bet a dollar these people are greeting the Taliban as heroes. The Taliban army defeated the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 14, 2021 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 1 hour ago, OftenWrong said: On the contrary. I’ll bet a dollar these people are greeting the Taliban as heroes. The Taliban army defeated the US. Not in a way that anyone would be proud of. They terrorize civilians and they fight with IEDs. Winning a war against the Taliban would require fighting at their level. IE, intentionally racking up a high civilian body count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted August 14, 2021 Report Share Posted August 14, 2021 15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said: Not in a way that anyone would be proud of. They terrorize civilians and they fight with IEDs. Winning a war against the Taliban would require fighting at their level. IE, intentionally racking up a high civilian body count. Not saying I like it or think its good. Im saying when it comes to Afghanistan, little Hassan with the bandy legs will go with the Taliban long before he will go with any western invader.t 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Not saying I like it or think its good. Im saying when it comes to Afghanistan, little Hassan with the bandy legs will go with the Taliban long before he will go with any western invader.t Does he really have a choice, it's either embrace them and live or die trying to oppose them.... Edited August 15, 2021 by Army Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Does he really have a choice, it's either embrace them and live or die trying to oppose them.... Exactly. Oppose what, their way of life in Afghanistan for centuries? And for what? Free Disney channel? I like many of you am pissed at the sad waste this became. Someone’s head should roll. No not literally... Edited August 15, 2021 by OftenWrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 I'm beginning to think I was right about that war all along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 Americans who hate Bush - will blame Obama & Biden & Democrats for this Afghan situation. Americans who hate Biden - will blame Republicans & Bush for this Afghan situation. Americans who hate America - will blame Trump for this Afghan situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 After Trump signed the deal with Taleban the withdrawal was only a matter of time, the dynamics and vector all pointed that way. Not saying it was wrong and not placing blame in this case, but quite obviously, Biden only put the final period in the sentence. To have even a chance of success in opposing Taleban a whole new, different narrative would have to emerge for a regular, ordinary citizen. Clearly, another government bureaucracy somewhere in Kabul wouldn't come even close and that could have been inferred from the earlier failures of others. Was it even possible in a divided, tribal society? That question can be answered only with the first successful example. But it would be formidably difficult, that is quite obvious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 It’s funny because everything that’s happening now, Joe Biden said wouldn’t happen back in July. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Army Guy Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 15 hours ago, BubberMiley said: I'm beginning to think I was right about that war all along. well opinions are like bum holes everyone has one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 Democracy and Islam are incompatible. Pakistan will be happy to have the Taliban back in control of Afghanistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 15, 2021 Report Share Posted August 15, 2021 This was inevitable once the Republicans latched on to the "Democrats and their endless wars" talking point. If the GOP wasn't going to stand behind the war they started, no one could expect the Democrats to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) 17 hours ago, Shady said: It’s funny because everything that’s happening now, Joe Biden said wouldn’t happen back in July. Only if you have a memroy Edited August 16, 2021 by OftenWrong spelling 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 Heckuva "peace agreement" with the Taliban. Trump's legacy is secured. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 A not so quick end to another democracy installed from outside story. In the hindsight, the question of the endgame should have been the first one after the defeat of the Taleban, same with Iraq. It did not have to be a democracy in the Western view at least, but it should have been able to stand on own feet three to five years on. And if not, the affair is lost pretty much from the outset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 2 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Only if you have a memroy Do you have a memroy of the treaty Trump signed with the Taliban in early 2020 to remove all U.S. troops by August 2021? I think Biden should have reneged, as the Trump administration was too much of a joke to negotiate anything, but I guess they felt the U.S. should live up to its word on treaties after the Iran debacle. I guess those of us who were always against it can feel vindicated. But it's too bad so many people had to die and so much money lost because of the total failure of the naive and evil BushCheney foreign policy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, BubberMiley said: Do you have a memroy of the treaty Trump signed with the Taliban in early 2020 to remove all U.S. troops by August 2021? I think Biden should have reneged, as the Trump administration was too much of a joke to negotiate anything, but I guess they felt the U.S. should live up to its word on treaties after the Iran debacle. I guess those of us who were always against it can feel vindicated. But it's too bad so many people had to die and so much money lost because of the total failure of the naive and evil BushCheney foreign policy. Yes, I get the gist of you’re argument B-b-b-because Trump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BubberMiley Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 The U.S. withdrawal was signed and delivered by Trump. We can agree that Biden never should have trusted the integrity of anything that administration did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 Biden has proven himself to be an unscientific ideologue. Rather than supporting pipelines that would reduce greenhouse gas emissions from trucks and diesel trains or ships, he is pushing for increased shipments of oil from the Saudis and Putin. On Afghanistan he’s created a power vacuum that is being filled by the Taliban and causing a mass refugee exodus. Canada is taking on 20,000 refugees to support this problem. Trump was part of the problem too, but he at least maintained fear in that region, the only thing the Taliban respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infidel Dog Posted August 16, 2021 Report Share Posted August 16, 2021 (edited) Worth a read. An Afghan vet has some opinions: " U.S. Army veteran and U.S. Senate candidate in Pennsylvania Sean Parnell slammed military generals who promoted critical race theory and sparred with Fox host Tucker Carlson instead of focusing on winning the war in Afghanistan on Sunday, stating “It seems like our generals were more concerned with fighting Tucker Carlson than they were the Taliban.” “For the last seven months, I’ve watched generals engage in Twitter fights with people, debate the merits of critical race theory on Capitol Hill,” Parnell stated. “It seems like our generals were more concerned with fighting Tucker Carlson than they were the Taliban and we are seeing the tragic and disastrous consequences of that play out on the battlefield right now." He also disagrees with Bubber on where to place the blame. If you can believe anybody would dare do that. Quote Speaking about the difference in foreign policy from the previous administration, Parnell said, “But Trump’s plan was very different from what Joe Biden is doing. Trump has a phased withdrawal that was supposed to be based on conditions on the ground in order to move onto a next phase. Trump was engaged with regional leaders in the area. Joe Biden has been president for seven months and he still hasn’t had a conversation with the prime minister of Pakistan.” “I think this is the most egregious thing,” Parnell added, “Joe Biden pushed our withdrawal date back to September 11th for strictly political reasons, and why did that matter? Because it gave the Taliban the time and the space to consolidate and reorganize and plan an attack on Kabul.” https://nationalfile.com/video-army-veteran-says-woke-generals-were-more-concerned-with-fighting-tucker-carlson-than-fighting-the-taliban/ Edited August 16, 2021 by Infidel Dog 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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