CdnFox Posted November 12, 2023 Report Share Posted November 12, 2023 On 11/10/2023 at 6:55 PM, herbie said: Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against and have this opium pipe dream than Ontarians will still be building cars without investing in EVs. You can keep driving your car until it dies, you die, or you run out of money. Your kid won't be buying one like yours. More likely your grandkids will be eating Alberta oil processed into Beyond Meat burgers before putting it as gas in their car. As has been pointed out many times some people simply ignore facts and when they lose an argument they invent one that was never made and argue against that instead while ignoring legitimate issues. You can buy an electric car if you feel it's appropriate for your very specific circumstances and that's fine. But the tech as it is today isn't good enough to replace ice engines. ICE still makes more sense for most people and applications Some day with luck To be honest i think we missed the boat and we should have pushed the industry to perfect the plug in hybrid. THat could have rolled out in very large numbers in short order and been a genuine solution till battery and power tech improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted November 12, 2023 Report Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) 17 hours ago, CdnFox said: But the tech as it is today isn't good enough to replace ice engines Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against 17 hours ago, CdnFox said: ICE still makes more sense for most people and applications Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against It's 2023 and 82% of Canadians live in cities. If you're driving in the city that's exactly when EVs make the most sense. Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against No one is forcing you to buy an EV and arguing against Ontario, where the auto industry is concentrated investing in EVs, is frankly f#cking ridiculous. You want to kiss off another entire industry to China or Korea? Edited November 12, 2023 by herbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted November 12, 2023 Report Share Posted November 12, 2023 47 minutes ago, herbie said: Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against Do you plead guilty. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted November 12, 2023 Report Share Posted November 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, Legato said: Do you plead guilty. For the win 1 hour ago, herbie said: Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against Like I pointed out dozens of times, some people simply repeat tired arguments against You certainly do Quote No one is forcing you to buy an EV They are literally passing laws to ban the sale of non ev's. Soooooo...... yeah . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannuck Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 16 hours ago, CdnFox said: For the win You certainly do They are literally passing laws to ban the sale of non ev's. Soooooo...... yeah . AND governments all over the place are doing so with my grandchildren's tax dollars. Meanwhile, nobody looking at or spending a nickel on fixing the actual problems, just devising more expensive and less sustainable ways of making a fast buck doing the same things that got us in this position in the first place Any time you want to understand human behaviour, just use the Golden Rule and follow the money. Edited November 13, 2023 by cannuck 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 hours ago, cannuck said: Any time you want to understand human behaviour, just use the Golden Rule and follow the money. Exactly. And as the main opposition to EV adoption comes from the USA, you can underline their ridiculously cheap gas prices as the main culprit. Use the highlighter on the umpteen different electrical companies and grids that make it near impossible to coordinate so they all profit and thousands of dealers that will need to upgrade equipment and lose their service dept's captive customers. That's why they're marking up vehicles $15,000 over MSRP to make hay while the sun still shines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted November 13, 2023 Report Share Posted November 13, 2023 8 hours ago, cannuck said: AND governments all over the place are doing so with my grandchildren's tax dollars. Well in fairness with how much they've borrowed those are the only tax dollars they have left Quote Meanwhile, nobody looking at or spending a nickel on fixing the actual problems, just devising more expensive and less sustainable ways of making a fast buck doing the same things that got us in this position in the first place Any time you want to understand human behaviour, just use the Golden Rule and follow the money. Yeah. Sadly - nothing will change with global warming and a bunch of people will get rich or gain power and your grandkids will have to live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted November 22, 2023 Report Share Posted November 22, 2023 Here's a scary story about battery replacement. Ontario man’s EV battery replacement cost $50,000 | True North (tnc.news) Kind of pricey isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 On 11/22/2023 at 9:32 AM, ironstone said: Here's a scary story about battery replacement. Ontario man’s EV battery replacement cost $50,000 | True North (tnc.news) Kind of pricey isn't it? This story is BS. He did not allow the dealer to do a full investigation. He did not check with Hyundai. The vehicle actually had over 10K kms on it. He scrapped the car on his own. "Hyundai Canada released a response to the incident, saying that “comprehensive diagnostic tests were not completed on the vehicle … (and the vehicle) … was scrapped by the customer before these diagnostic procedures could be completed, precluding a definitive assessment of the required service.” The statement also said that the initial estimate given to Sooch “was not representative of the likely actual cost in this case.” “We sincerely apologize to Mr. Sooch for these lapses in communication and service,” reads the statement. Additionally, Hyundai Canada plans to “resolve this situation by paying fair market value for his vehicle either in cash or towards a new Hyundai, as part of our commitment to our customers.”" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: This story is BS. He did not allow the dealer to do a full investigation. He did not check with Hyundai. The vehicle actually had over 10K kms on it. He scrapped the car on his own. "Hyundai Canada released a response to the incident, saying that “comprehensive diagnostic tests were not completed on the vehicle … (and the vehicle) … was scrapped by the customer before these diagnostic procedures could be completed, precluding a definitive assessment of the required service.” The statement also said that the initial estimate given to Sooch “was not representative of the likely actual cost in this case.” “We sincerely apologize to Mr. Sooch for these lapses in communication and service,” reads the statement. Additionally, Hyundai Canada plans to “resolve this situation by paying fair market value for his vehicle either in cash or towards a new Hyundai, as part of our commitment to our customers.”" The part about the Hyundai dealer quoting 50 grand seems to be correct. That would be enough to really shock most people. It sure would knock the hell out of me if I were in his shoes. How would Hyundai react of the story didn't go public? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, ironstone said: The part about the Hyundai dealer quoting 50 grand seems to be correct. That would be enough to really shock most people. It sure would knock the hell out of me if I were in his shoes. How would Hyundai react of the story didn't go public? The dealer never completed the diagnostics. Key was the owner decided to scrap the car and never gave Hyundai an opportunity till the news got a hold of the "story". The owner jumped the gun. He panicked and never went further. Hyundai, once they were aware, told him they would buy the car back. Anyway, like always, there are 2 sides to a story and the most dramatic (even if incorrect) makes the headlines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted November 23, 2023 Report Share Posted November 23, 2023 8 hours ago, ExFlyer said: This story is BS. He did not allow the dealer to do a full investigation. He did not check with Hyundai. The vehicle actually had over 10K kms on it. He scrapped the car on his own. "Hyundai Canada released a response to the incident, saying that “comprehensive diagnostic tests were not completed on the vehicle … (and the vehicle) … was scrapped by the customer before these diagnostic procedures could be completed, precluding a definitive assessment of the required service.” The statement also said that the initial estimate given to Sooch “was not representative of the likely actual cost in this case.” “We sincerely apologize to Mr. Sooch for these lapses in communication and service,” reads the statement. Additionally, Hyundai Canada plans to “resolve this situation by paying fair market value for his vehicle either in cash or towards a new Hyundai, as part of our commitment to our customers.”" Doesn't say he refused it - says they didn't do it. And they say the batteries SHOULD"NT cost that much - but how was he to know. He scrapped it when he was told the only way to fix it was spend 50 k on batteries. The story is true - and this kind of stuff IS a legit concern, and not being honest about it doesn't help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted December 13, 2023 Report Share Posted December 13, 2023 https://va.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_s2lsae9JVu1a7vvjm.mp4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted January 15 Author Report Share Posted January 15 On 11/23/2023 at 11:35 AM, ironstone said: The part about the Hyundai dealer quoting 50 grand seems to be correct. That would be enough to really shock most people. It sure would knock the hell out of me if I were in his shoes. How would Hyundai react of the story didn't go public? The battery is under warranty though. The complication here is that it was the casing around the battery that failed or something. So is it a Hyundai issue or an Insurance issue as the incident happened as a result of a collision and not a battery failure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 But it happened to that guy so it happens to everyone with EVs all the time. Don't you know how to interpret a headline to align with your worst preconceived stubborn beliefs? Put it alongside the tale of the guy sitting in his Tesla in -45 weather and how it took even longer to charge cuz he had to keep the heater on and how he said because of that it took 3 times as long to drive from Kamloops to Regina. Read that like the fault of an EV rather than the idi0t driver even attempting that drive in that weather in one. You'll see how that thinking works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 15 Report Share Posted January 15 26 minutes ago, herbie said: But it happened to that guy so it happens to everyone with EVs all the time. Well if you think it won't happen to everyone, just prepare a list of the people it WOULD happen to and the rest of us can buy knowing it could never possibly happen to us BTW - just gonna leave this here... Road trips lose power as charger outages leave northern Ontario EV drivers stranded https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thunder-bay/ev-charger-outtages-northern-ontario-1.6895863 Also did i just read that the northern charging stations all went offline in this seriously cold winter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Yes they went out all over the world all at once and will never come back. Better buy an F350 diesel. And the EVs are to blame not the power companies or the govt's p1ss poor planning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 9 minutes ago, herbie said: Yes they went out all over the world all at once and will never come back. Better buy an F350 diesel. And the EVs are to blame not the power companies or the govt's p1ss poor planning. ahhh - so you say ev's don't work because of gov'ts. Well we can't get rid of the gov'ts - better get rid of the ev's i guess oh and https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1134740_evs-least-reliable-vehicle-type-problem-areas EVs are the least reliable vehicle type: Consumer Reports points to some problem areas The tech is coming - but it's not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 (edited) Congrats for being exactly the type of poster I was talking about, so insistent on repeating vaguely valid points in order to think them valid. If the power's out, the gas pumps don't work, stupid. 0 advantage ICE vehicles. If you're gassing an ICE vehicle at -45 you're probably gonna do the dangerous and illegal thing and leave it running or you have no heat at all. If you're going to do that long a trip, you're going to need to refuel anything. If you don't know before you leave on a trip like that to plan for extra charging times, you're dumb as a post. As anyone trying a trip of that distance at -45 would have to be. I've made may a trip Vancouver to Central BC to arrive at -40 or to escape from it. I sure as hell wouldn't even try at -40 all the way. Flat tires, road closures, freezing fog, whiteouts, hunting for propane stations even. Wouldn't even try a 350km round trip to Prince George in the snow or that cold in my bloody Jeep or the SUV anymore. Only the ambulance drivers and young guys wanting to prove how tough they are bother. Edited January 16 by herbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 42 minutes ago, herbie said: Congrats for being exactly the type of poster I was talking about, so insistent on repeating vaguely valid points in order to think them valid. Yawn. Sorry did you say something? 43 minutes ago, herbie said: If the power's out, the gas pumps don't work, stupid. Don't be stupid - the local gas station has a perfectly servicable generator and operates just fine during our many power outages around here. Did you HONESTLY think that wasn't the case in most remote areas? So does the local small general store. Me too actually But you can't really have a generator to provide the kind of power necessary to fast charge multiple ev's as easily as that it would have to be radically and impractically larger with huge tanks. Also -got 3 jerry cans in the shed. Do you have 3 Jerry cans of electricity stored anywhere? That was an EPIC fail ICE gets 100 advantage points 48 minutes ago, herbie said: If you don't know before you leave on a trip like that to plan for extra charging times, you're dumb as a post Translation - if you don't know that EV"S suck compared to ICE and bought one anyway - you're dumb as an electrified post. Your argument literally is you should have known you made a bad choice to begin with. 49 minutes ago, herbie said: I sure as hell wouldn't even try at -40 all the way. Just because you don't know how to dive in cold weather doesn't mean other's don't. Again that's some faulty logic "I DRIVE AN EV BECAUSE I KNOW IT DOESNT" MATTER BECAUSE I WON"T BE ABLE TO DRIVE ANY WAY!!!" well - if that's the case isn't the emissions the same for both? Zero? Was that actually your argument or were you trying to DELIBERATELY poke fun at EV drivers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 18 hours ago, Boges said: The complication here is that it was the casing around the battery that failed or something. So is it a Hyundai issue or an Insurance issue as the incident happened as a result of a collision and not a battery failure. Hmm, so the casing costs $50k to replace? Or else, it can't be replaced separately because it's integral to the battery itself. Tomato, tomatoe Someone get him a lawyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 16 hours ago, CdnFox said: Don't be stupid - the local gas station has a perfectly servicable generator and operates just fine during our many power outages around here. Not where most people live live they don't. Where I live there's almost monthly day long power failures and only the one station on the rez has a generator. It took them 15 years to budget for that. I bet a lot of others are tired of your silly responses simply to be contrary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 28 minutes ago, herbie said: Not where most people live live they don't. Sure they do, it's quite common. Won't be every one but there's some in virtually every area . You don't need a very big generator to keep a gas barge open. Quote Where I live there's almost monthly day long power failures and only the one station on the rez has a generator. Sooooo - even where you live there's somewhere to get gas during a power outage. So my gas station has one - your gas station has one...... and you're going to claim this is super rare Tonnes of gas stations have generators and stay open during power outages. It's common. Won't be all, but chances are there's one not too far from you. So if you need to gas up during a power outage no problem. You were kinda silly for saying it to begin with - you were dumb to double down on it - but continuing to argue it when you've got a generator equipped station near you is Olympic class stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legato Posted January 16 Report Share Posted January 16 Couple of gas stations on the reserve near me, both have generators. Went to town yesterday for some physio. Called at the Crappy Tire for some salt. They have 10 EV charging stations, 4 were out of action. Asked the guy attempting repairs, he said they don't work very well in cold weather. It was only -8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted January 17 Report Share Posted January 17 1 hour ago, Legato said: Couple of gas stations on the reserve near me, both have generators. Went to town yesterday for some physio. Called at the Crappy Tire for some salt. They have 10 EV charging stations, 4 were out of action. Asked the guy attempting repairs, he said they don't work very well in cold weather. It was only -8. The smart chargers not working? That's unpossible!! Just out of curiosity - how was the gas station doing? Still pumping gas at all? I hear some of them can still function down to minus 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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