Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Yes.  Yes they would. The grid would overload and either the breakers would shut the complex down or if it wasn't up to snuff we'd get a fire.

It's not conjecture.  Electricity is not theoretical. Capacity can be measured and calculated. This is science.

Up to now your arguments have been based in reason and logic - don't blow it at this point.

There is NO universe where we are able to provide full service for charging without a massive massive massive upgrading of buildings and the infrastructure to get to buildings. That is a cast iron fact.  I doubt we could provide for half the capacity.

If the tech evolves so that we could charge cars more or less the same as we fill them with gas (roughly same time and effort i mean) then a lot of that goes away - we don't need extra power to the homes, we just need to run it to 'power' stations (instead of gas stations) and that would be a tiny fraction of the effort. And then it would be useable and a realistic replacement for ICE.

Sure if enough people were using too much electricity we'd get brown outs or black outs. Capacity has to go up. Now, by how much? People who get paid to figure that out, have to figure that out.  

But OW was making the case that an individual board would overload. In charging an EV, I'm using 32 Amps. That's it, now I may be doing it over the course of 6 hours, but I've never blown a circuit using my EV. 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Boges said:

Sure if enough people were using too much electricity we'd get brown outs or black outs.

With the current power grid in virutally every province  it would be black outs long before we ever got anywhere close to full service.  There would have to be massive upgrades both inside buildings and in the infrastructure itself.  I'm not even addressing actual power capacity for generation, i suspect there's some problems there as well but i haven't actually run the numbers

Quote

Capacity has to go up. Now, by how much? People who get paid to figure that out, have to figure that out.  

They have - it's a crap-tonne.

 

Quote

But OW was making the case that an individual board would overload. In charging an EV, I'm using 32 Amps. That's it, now I may be doing it over the course of 6 hours, but I've never blown a circuit using my EV. 

Sure - there's ways to charge an ev safely with the right install.

[Legato]

Interesting article.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-5466935

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, Legato said:

Interesting article.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-5466935

Non paywall version for those interested:

https://archive.ph/X1Xbp#selection-477.0-477.101

Frankly that was more interesting than i thought it was going to be.  Interesting points to ponder.

Maybe nader could name it "Unsafe at any volt?"  

[Legato]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Non paywall version for those interested:

https://archive.ph/X1Xbp#selection-477.0-477.101

Frankly that was more interesting than i thought it was going to be.  Interesting points to ponder.

Maybe nader could name it "Unsafe at any volt?"  

Watt? the amped up rhetoric in favour of EV's needs to see some resistance, impedance is not working.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Legato said:

Watt? the amped up rhetoric in favour of EV's needs to see some resistance, impedance is not working.

LOL - I'm pretty sure there's a special place in hell reserved for that level of punning

[Boges]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:34 PM, Legato said:

Interesting article.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-5466935

It's an opinion piece more making fun of the Left's instinct to ban things that pose a relatively low risk. 

Motor Vehicle accidents (EV or ICE) are high on any list of accidental deaths. 

[herbie]

Went to look at cars Saturday. Dodge dealer had ONE Hornet, Toyota dealer had maybe 6 cars on the lot in total. So much for seeing a RAV4 Prime.

Notice how dealers no longer display the price in the windows either, Don't want you to see how much over MSRP they're marking it up. Whatever you heard "starting at" on TV, double it on anything actually on the lot.

Wanted to see the Hornet, a hybrid that's actually an AlfaRomeo ToeNail. Wasn't impressed by the one black one with black interior, all locked up with no price listed.

The Ford dealer had A Maverick and A Bronco on the lot. Not that either interest me.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, herbie said:

Went to look at cars Saturday. Dodge dealer had ONE Hornet, Toyota dealer had maybe 6 cars on the lot in total. So much for seeing a RAV4 Prime.

Notice how dealers no longer display the price in the windows either, Don't want you to see how much over MSRP they're marking it up. Whatever you heard "starting at" on TV, double it on anything actually on the lot.

Wanted to see the Hornet, a hybrid that's actually an AlfaRomeo ToeNail. Wasn't impressed by the one black one with black interior, all locked up with no price listed.

The Ford dealer had A Maverick and A Bronco on the lot. Not that either interest me.

I don't envy anyone looking for a vehicle right now. The buyer has zero leverage. 

 

[CdnFox]

15 minutes ago, Boges said:

I don't envy anyone looking for a vehicle right now. The buyer has zero leverage. 

 

Its the truth.  Now's not a great time to buy ANY vehicle ICE or EV. 

[herbie]

I'm looking... not buying.

Heard the Hornet drives like an Alfa Romeo and power like a Dodge. THe Rav4 for dependable. Drove my niece's 2012 it was great, but gutless compared to my 2005 Vue or the Jeep.

And wanted to laugh at Dealer greed that's gonna put them under in the end. A little annoyed with $100 fillups even on the cars I have. Specially the Wrandler, tiny tank w about the range of a modern BEV. Saw the new Wrangler's gas mileage has improved by 0.2L/100km in 9 years and that's it. Disgusted at that... and using pisspot 3 cyl turbos like the Maverick you'd be lucky to get 100K out of one. Just like British cars and VWs back in high school days, rebuild engine after 5 or 6 years.

[ExFlyer]

On 8/17/2023 at 4:34 PM, Legato said:

Interesting article.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/opinion/is-it-time-to-ban-electric-vehicles-5466935

 

On 8/17/2023 at 4:38 PM, CdnFox said:

Non paywall version for those interested:

https://archive.ph/X1Xbp#selection-477.0-477.101

Frankly that was more interesting than i thought it was going to be.  Interesting points to ponder.

Maybe nader could name it "Unsafe at any volt?"  

 

On 8/17/2023 at 4:47 PM, Legato said:

Watt? the amped up rhetoric in favour of EV's needs to see some resistance, impedance is not working.

Yeah, the Epoch Times. The pro Trump Falun Gong religious far right wing rag?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-influence-falun-gong.html

 

[Legato]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

 

 

Yeah, the Epoch Times. The pro Trump Falun Gong religious far right wing rag?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-influence-falun-gong.html

 

Yeah the NY Times. The pro Biden heathen far left wing rag.

[ExFlyer]

32 minutes ago, Legato said:

Yeah the NY Times. The pro Biden heathen far left wing rag.

Ha Ha Ha.  Doesn't fit your narrative eh? LOL

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Epoch_Times

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/epoch-times-media-giant-youve-never-heard-of-and-why-you-should-pay-attention/

https://www.facingsouth.org/2022/09/epoch-times-disinformation-mailed-to-voters

https://www.nupoliticalunion.org/blog/xdiaj194ndlecm6rqt5q8yq38xvz35

 

[Legato]

..and what, if anything at all, has it to do with the content of the article?

Lets shoot the messenger.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

 

 

Yeah, the Epoch Times. The pro Trump Falun Gong religious far right wing rag?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/24/technology/epoch-times-influence-falun-gong.html

 

Dude.  You know better than to base your entire rebuttal on the source.  If there's something in the article you feel is wrong or factually incorrect or faulty logic then just make your case.  Its fine to point out the issues with teh source but if that's ALL you got then you're basically admitting they're right but you just don't like them.

And it's worth noting the NYT is a left wing opinion rag and has been for quite some time.  Doesn't mean their wrong but if you're countering a bias source with a bias source... well..

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Dude.  You know better than to base your entire rebuttal on the source.  If there's something in the article you feel is wrong or factually incorrect or faulty logic then just make your case.  Its fine to point out the issues with teh source but if that's ALL you got then you're basically admitting they're right but you just don't like them.

And it's worth noting the NYT is a left wing opinion rag and has been for quite some time.  Doesn't mean their wrong but if you're countering a bias source with a bias source... well..

I added more in another post.

Bottom line is that Epoch Times is a pro Trump far right wing publication.

The article by lego stated "Last year, there were more than 200 fires from batteries from e-bikes, electric vehicles (EV), and other devices.". 200 fires out of how many devices? Tens of thousands or millions? That is why EV's should be banned?

My point is that Epoch Times is far right anti climate change publication. (anti climate change as the far right seems to be). As last nights republican debate noted, all but one candidate says climate change is a hoax.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I added more in another post.

Fair enough

Quote

Bottom line is that Epoch Times is a pro Trump far right wing publication.

No, the bottom line always is "are they right"?  Trash sources be they right or left often do produce works that are correct.  It just means the work is more suspect compared to a more accepted source and should be double checked and not taken as ipso facto, but these days that's true of any source really to a degree.

[ExFlyer]

3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Fair enough

No, the bottom line always is "are they right"?  Trash sources be they right or left often do produce works that are correct.  It just means the work is more suspect compared to a more accepted source and should be double checked and not taken as ipso facto, but these days that's true of any source really to a degree.

Right as in correct or right as in politics? 

All sources I can find say Epoch Times is far right politically.

Seems the politically far right do not believe in climate change.

Not going to debate for or against believing climate change.

[ironstone]

In some US states EV's are now required to be tracked by GPS in order to tax the vehicle on a per mile basis.

It will likely be here soon as well.

[Boges]

On 8/27/2023 at 10:39 AM, ironstone said:

In some US states EV's are now required to be tracked by GPS in order to tax the vehicle on a per mile basis.

It will likely be here soon as well.

Which states? And what charge? 

[ironstone]

7 hours ago, Boges said:

Which states? And what charge? 

You won't like the source, it's Scotty Kilmer?

He claims it will be starting in Oregon and Utah, and soon likely in more states.

The Government is Tracking You While You’re Driving Now and I’m Pissed | State driving rules just changed. These States Just Forced You to Have a GPS Tracker in Your Car and I'm Pissed, DIY and car repair with Scotty Kilmer.... | By Scotty Kilmer | Facebook

[Boges]

13 hours ago, ironstone said:

You won't like the source, it's Scotty Kilmer?

He claims it will be starting in Oregon and Utah, and soon likely in more states.

The Government is Tracking You While You’re Driving Now and I’m Pissed | State driving rules just changed. These States Just Forced You to Have a GPS Tracker in Your Car and I'm Pissed, DIY and car repair with Scotty Kilmer.... | By Scotty Kilmer | Facebook

You'd have a more compelling case if you didn't refer to that doddering old man. ?

Here's a MSM Article. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/oregon-and-utah-announce-mandated-gps-trackers-in-electric-vehicles-to-tax-drivers-per-mile-driven/ar-AA1fsvR8

In Utah they'd charge 1¢ a mile. So if you drove 20,000 miles a year, you may have to pay $200 a year. It's not nothing, but it certainly doesn't erase the savings from being able to charge your car at home. 

I suspect Insurance Companies will mandate GPS trackers for all cars long before tracking EV drivers to get a few hundy a year being common place. Many insurance companies incentivize customers now by installing a GPS tracker or having an app that gauges how you drive and "can" give you a discount for safe driving. 

We all know that will eventually turn into a mandatory system where they know the true risk of insuring you by mileage and driving style. 

[cannuck]

On 8/9/2021 at 11:28 AM, Boges said:

At least metals in Lithium Batteries are recyclable. 

Battery tech is continually evolving. Unlike ICE fuel efficiency, which can't seem to get below 6L/100 kms. 

So far, Li Ion battery recycling is in its infancy from what I understand.

But the 6L/100km is pure nonsense.  VW sold the "3 litre Lupo) decades ago (name is not engine displacement, but 3L/100kms fuel consumption).   I can tell you from personal experience the BTE of ICEs is no where near the end of its development/improvement.   A lot of really exciting work going on.

Worth noting:  EVERYTHING so far in this thread is all about devising newer, more expensive, more polluting ways of doing more of the same things that got us into this mess in the first place.  Any real effort to protect our sustainability starts with how to do LESS or NONE of the foregoing.

Edited October 31, 2023 by cannuck

[herbie]

I have no doubt the diesel emission cheaters at VW can also convince some people they sell cars that get 94 mpg....