Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[herbie]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

As we dispose of dog poo, waste and many other things with far thicker garbage bags, creating just as much waste.

Yes, don't let it fertilize your lawn! You must pick it up and put it in a platic bag so it can go to the landfill and not decompose for 400 years.

I mean these days Little Billy is far too retarded to watch out and not step in dog shit, the whole world must change their ways for Billy.

Yeah I agree there are a lot of stupid things going on these days. Like how they give you $X000 rebate to buy an EV and every crooked dealer on the planet boosted their markup to grab it all, snuck an extra couple grand on ICE vehicles too cuz they'd still be 'cheaper'.

[Perspektiv]

5 hours ago, herbie said:

Yes, don't let it fertilize your lawn!

Ah, yes. That's what my neighbor was doing when she let Fluffy s*** on my lawn. 

You're one of those people.💩

 

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

I mean these days Little Billy is far too retarded to watch out and not step in dog shit, the whole world must change their ways for Billy.

The same guy who says this about picking up after your dog also demands everyone change their toilet arrangements at huge costs and change their ways for billy  suzie.

[herbie]

Road trip ideas in BC
https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/charge/EV-road-trip-ideas-and-advice

[herbie]

Stellantis just announced its EV platform will give a 700km range.

Gee, the average Cdn driver will have to recharge almost every two weeks.

[Perspektiv]

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

Stellantis just announced its EV platform will give a 700km range.

Gee, the average Cdn driver will have to recharge almost every two weeks.

How much will these vehicles cost?

The issue with EVs is not the ability of range. A few companies provide immense range.

Its the cost of putting the required batteries to obtain that range. This costs a lot of money.

You're likely paying close to 100k for such. 

Prove to me that the range you're eluding to, will be affordable (meaning most who have cars will be able to switch over) and I will gladly apologize to this thread for my ignorance.

[herbie]

10 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

How much will these vehicles cost?

Who the F*** knows? They haven't made them yet. But pulling a $100K figure out of thin air might just be accurate by 2030

After all the most popular vehicle an F150 costs over $60,000+ today.
A Pacifica minivan $55,000+ today.

Hell, a dozen eggs might cost $12 by then. Almost as much as your Basic Personal Tax Exemption will go up. I don't wanna even think about it.
Joking with my sister at the grocery store - Look Sue! Ten cent candy bars are on sale for $1.89
 

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Who the F*** knows?

If you seek pushing something to the masses, wouldn't that be the first place you should look?

2 hours ago, herbie said:

They haven't made them yet.

Wouldn't that make them as solid as the revolutionary EVs that never made market? Or prototypes? 

Wasn't the Cybertruck going to be released this year?

2 hours ago, herbie said:

After all the most popular vehicle an F150 costs over $60,000+ today.

With the same range and power as an ICE, it would be impossible to make one under 100k.

60$ is a good price point for such a truck. 100k, is just not.

2 hours ago, herbie said:

A Pacifica minivan $55,000+ today

Sure, but what trim is best selling?

Just because the Honda Odyssey has a 60k trim, doesn't mean it's its best selling. 

Auto makers know that affordability and range should be tied together in order to capture the bulk of the hesitant population like myself that are in the fence with buying an EV.

Most car buyers nowadays are well researched, and want something reliable.

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Hell, a dozen eggs might cost $12 by then

If Trudeau has his way, it will. People will be selling their bodies for dish soap.

 

[ExFlyer]

With all the heat, brown outs and power outages are happening because people are putting their air conditioners on.

We are on the limit of electricity production now.

And all levels of government want us to buy electric vehicles and of course, the public outcry for more electricity using housing.

We need more juice.

Thankfully the Ontario (at least) government says they will build another nuke plant https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-new-nuclear-build-1.6897701

I suspect the other provinces are in the same situaltion with their electricity grid

Now, to see if it will happen. Will the "greenies" allow this? The ones that want to do away with fossil fuel use will now have to allow nuclear development.

[herbie]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

We are on the limit of electricity production now.

That claim is absurd.
Ontario approves 3 small reactors just the other day.

Meanwhile the coming Fiat 600e has a 600km range and projected $50K price. The 500 ICE is $39K... and it sells like liver flavoured ice cream

Edited July 7 by herbie

[ExFlyer]

 

1 hour ago, herbie said:

That claim is absurd.
Ontario approves 3 small reactors just the other day.

Meanwhile the coming Fiat 600e has a 600km range and projected $50K price. The 500 ICE is $39K... and it sells like liver flavoured ice cream

Absurd? It is all over the news.

I linked the governments announcement.

I could not care less about electric cars or their range or cost, and that is not what my post was about.

I said Ontario is at the edge of it's production. there could be brownouts and outages because of the demand. Proposing we buy more electric vehicles and build more housing is straining the system even more and may not handle it.

https://thenarwhal.ca/ontario-electricity-grid/

https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2023/06/05/if-the-hot-weather-keeps-up-ontario-is-at-risk-of-power-shortages-this-summer-report-finds.html

 

 

Edited July 7 by ExFlyer

[Perspektiv]

16 hours ago, herbie said:

and it sells like liver flavoured ice cream

That's because you haven't tried it with ranch ice cream. Flavors meant to be together like eczema and dry air.

16 hours ago, herbie said:

Ontario approves 3 small reactors just the other day.

Thats great, but let's be real. This means probably a decade or two until project is completed.

The technology is on its way, but it's a solid decade away.

Current battery technologies won't cut it.

I am excited about solid state battery technology as it looks promising to mitigate issues with liquid state (overheating, loss of power, low speed of charge, weight, etc).

But if this is the future, the research I have seen is in its infancy.

[ironstone]

On 7/6/2023 at 5:00 PM, herbie said:

Stellantis just announced its EV platform will give a 700km range.

Gee, the average Cdn driver will have to recharge almost every two weeks.

Stellantis eh?  Abarth
Alfa Romeo
Chrysler
Citroën
Dodge
DS Automobiles
Fiat
Jeep®
Lancia
Maserati
Opel
Peugeot
Ram
Vauxhall

I've said this before, none of these brands are known for stellar reliability, at least not in the North American market.

[Perspektiv]

31 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Stellantis eh?  Abarth
Alfa Romeo
Chrysler
Citroën
Dodge
DS Automobiles
Fiat
Jeep®
Lancia
Maserati
Opel
Peugeot
Ram
Vauxhall

I've said this before, none of these brands are known for stellar reliability, at least not in the North American market.

I had a Dodge Neon way back in the days. It literally was a garbage can on wheels. 

I maintained it meticulously, so it looked beautiful.

I put thousands just to keep it on the road. I swore never to buy that brand ever again.

This brand isn't the EV answer any time soon.

[herbie]

If you want to believe in brand names that is. They all build shit models and good models, just like in the computer market or any other.

The worst trucks I even owned or drove were in the "Quality is Job One" days. 80% of computer repairs were on the $399 "its a Dell, so it's a good computer" models.

A Dodge Neon... dude those were cars you bought for your kid when they graduated model. And there's over a dozen still running in this little town. I still have a 2005 Saturn, runs great. Spent 4K in maintenance over 18 years... like $225 a year. People would laugh at the wife in her bright red Soccer Mom car until she hit the gas and blew past them, or hauled 5 people and their luggage thru the Coq at 120 without hitting every gas station.

I mean stick to the EV subject, you both admit the infrastructure is being built, the range is getting much better, the raw resources are here, the assembly workers are here and the jobs are vital. If you hand over your $100K you'll probably still have to wait a year or so to even get an EV if you wanted one.
Give us a valid gripe like how the makers are blackmailing the whole world. I mean shit, $20 billion to Stellantis and VW or they walk?

[Perspektiv]

On 7/8/2023 at 4:32 PM, herbie said:

If you want to believe in brand names that is.

I couldn't care less on brand. I care about reliability in terms of retaining as much value on my car as possible. 

My car is ridiculously reliable and is reputed as being as such. It's why I bought it. It helps its in the color I like, rims and look. But that mattered little if after research, I saw a heavily depreciating car.

As a result, I could still get a high value on my car, should I sell it. Even from a dealership, albeit I would get maximum value selling myself.

I seriously thought of buying an EV last year (the wife is picky on EVs, but likes a few), so looked up a few models. Many used models piqued my interest. Many had a very high depreciation on price point, which then made me question how good the cars would be past a 10 to 15 year mark.

A reliable ICE should easily be able to give you 10+ years of reliable driving. Easily.

I won't test it, but most people I know of who bought my model, used it into 300k km territory. 

I wouldn't be confident doing so with any EV on the market.

For anyone who doesn't care about that, have at it.

But my car is a fuel sipper at best. I got it precisely because its great on gas. Current battery technologies aren't only dirty and bad for the environment, but also have many questionable issues regarding child labor.

So the only incentive for switching in my humble opinion, would be it being best for me.

I could still get a way better ICE if I want to pay 500 - 1, 000 a month for my car.

 

[herbie]

I fixed up the old Saturn, kind of got neglected for a decade when it was the wife's car. Entirely because even though I am a proponent for EVs, I don't think it's time to shell out for one right now. In a couple years for sure. Decide if I should sell both vehicles and buy a hybrid or just one and get a BEV.
I still enjoy the long distance road trips, airfare to visit the relatives is WAY more expensive and thx to the security shit and where the airports are... only a couple hours faster. I'd rather listen to music, daydream and relax for 10 hours than rush about worrying over who's gonna steal or lose my stuff, shelling out for  parking & transit and end up in Vancouver without any wheels.

In the meantime, after 30 odd years of trying to kick this town's ass into the twentieth century, I will have to start berating them online and at Council meetings as they aren't even thinking about installing a charging station in town yet.

That Fiat 600e will not be coming to Canada. Instead they're gonna bring the 500e, the same tiny p1sspot they couldn't sell to save their lives with less than half that range for a 'projected' $37.000.
We Canadians are not worthy of the good stuff, we should be happy to at least get something.

[Boges]

On 7/8/2023 at 11:35 AM, ironstone said:

Stellantis eh?  Abarth
Alfa Romeo
Chrysler
Citroën
Dodge
DS Automobiles
Fiat
Jeep®
Lancia
Maserati
Opel
Peugeot
Ram
Vauxhall

I've said this before, none of these brands are known for stellar reliability, at least not in the North American market.

There's also a VW plant proposed. But Chrysler is one of the Big 3. What are the automakers you're looking for investment from? 

[ironstone]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

There's also a VW plant proposed. But Chrysler is one of the Big 3. What are the automakers you're looking for investment from? 

In terms of overall reliability, I think Toyota and Honda are quite good. Not perfect, but generally better than most of the rest.

I would rather see more investment from the automakers and less from government(taxpayers). I think the billions that Trudeau and Ford are handing out for these battery plants is a crazy amount.

[Perspektiv]

10 minutes ago, ironstone said:

In terms of overall reliability, I think Toyota and Honda are quite good.

Honda understands the future is electric, but know it is far more distant than politicians think with their written targets.

Everything looks good on paper.

2030 looks better than 2050.

Architectural drawings look fantastic, until engineering and physics is factored.

I see it no different than this technology. Its still dirty, and we are right around the corner from making it far cleaner. 

Liquid state batteries aren't the future. Solid state ones, are. Far more stable, can store far more density at a fraction of the weight  faster charging, etc.

If you're going to make all vehicle types electric, you need to be able to store far more energy, in far less space, costing far less payload.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

In terms of overall reliability, I think Toyota and Honda are quite good. Not perfect, but generally better than most of the rest.

Neither are into the EV game right now. Honda just released their first EV recently and Toyota still doesn't have a full EV in their line-up. 

Both, Toyota and Honda, already have assembly plant in Ontario. 

 

Quote

I would rather see more investment from the automakers and less from government(taxpayers). I think the billions that Trudeau and Ford are handing out for these battery plants is a crazy amount.

Don't want to play the game, Go home. Scores of US towns are more than willing to subsidize Stellantis and VW to build Batteries. 

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Honda understands the future is electric, but know it is far more distant than politicians think with their written targets.

Everything looks good on paper.

2030 looks better than 2050.

Architectural drawings look fantastic, until engineering and physics is factored.

I see it no different than this technology. Its still dirty, and we are right around the corner from making it far cleaner. 

Liquid state batteries aren't the future. Solid state ones, are. Far more stable, can store far more density at a fraction of the weight  faster charging, etc.

If you're going to make all vehicle types electric, you need to be able to store far more energy, in far less space, costing far less payload.

Sure, but like with all tech, we'll need bridge technology. 

Not everyone with a car needs it to go 700 kms on a single charge. Sodium Ion Batteries are a good solution to bringing the price down and reducing the demand on Lithium. 

[CdnFox]

26 minutes ago, Boges said:

Sure, but like with all tech, we'll need bridge technology. 

That's kind of the thing though, with most tech you don't need bridge tech. Good tech that makes sense stands on its own. There may be an initial. Adjustment or challenges but very quickly it flies we didn't need any transitional technology between horses and cars. There was no transitional technology when home computers came out, people saw they were better than an abacus and away they went.

Same with most other successful tech.  The new product was good enough that people just went for it. The reason you want to see transitional tech here is because it's NOT about the tech, it's about the end goal. And we don't have the tech to do a good job of that yet.

Which is fine - but we need to look seriously at the cost benefit of forcing the market to something it's not ready for vs waiting till it's ready.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

That's kind of the thing though, with most tech you don't need bridge tech. Good tech that makes sense stands on its own.

That why we had B&W tv when they'd already invented colour, mono records first, stereo then quad. Microwaves that cooked things that looked and tasted like they'd been buried a month first and brickphones and flipphones before the iPhone. Carbs before injection, drum brakes before disk, AM only radios.
The idea that something must be perfect before it is ever even offered is absurd.

Honestly back in the 1980s both our vehicles were propane and the same lot argued that the 'loss of a few horsepower' wasn't worth paying $6 a fill instead of $35 a fill, that there weren't enough propane stations around, the range was a little less, the conversion for $1000 was 'way too expensive'. etc etc etc. Same Shit Different Day.

Then the Prius came out and every taxi & delivery vehicle switched to that instead.

Interim steps - that all there are. Because then you can sell the same thing with minor improvements to the same customers again and again and again.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

That why we had B&W tv when they'd already invented colour,

No, that wasn't transitional.  That was just improvement over time.  They didn't buy b&w tvs while they WAITED for colour.  (except gleeson who was waiting for 3d )

Quote

mono records first, stereo then quad.

Same.  That's not transitional.

Quote

Microwaves that cooked things that looked and tasted like they'd been buried a month first and brickphones and flipphones before the iPhone.

ROFLMAO - also not transitional

Products evolve into better products.  That's natural.  Computers get faster. Cars get better. Tv's get bigger.  That's not transitional.

Transitional involves an imperfect solution which bridges the gab  between a need in the marketplace and an actual product that fills that need properly.  It assists the 'transition'.  Going from a flip phone to an iphone isn't transitional  

Natural Gas is a 'transition technology'.  It bridges the gap between coal and oil  and true clean energy which isn't quite there yet.  Stereo records are not