Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

There is a lot of truth in that post.

having been raised in downtown Toronto myself, I completely understand it

when you are from Toronto, you don't look north, nor east, nor west, you don't look to Canada

you look to the south, to New York

your real confederation is with New York, not the rest of Canada

Canada is not an east west trade federation, Canada is a protectionist barrier in all directions

New York is your principle trading partner, your destiny is determined by the Americans

the Americans also provide your national security, you're not defended by Canada, you live in Fortress America

New York is also your culture, you want to be like New York City, you don't relate to the rest of Canada at all

you're not thinking about how your votes might be undermining Canadian Confederation

because Canada no longer meets the threshold of your Westphalian Nation State

for all intents & purposes, Toronto is an American city in occupation of Canada at this point

the foreign barbarians are the provincial Canadian hicks from the sticks to the ivory tower of Toronto

some redneck from Alberta is crying that he can't get his oil to market ?

f*ck Alberta, bunch of ignorant hayseeds, the Liberal elites will keep them from interfering

Canada has cut its own throat, Canada is a barrier not a boon

knee jerk protectionist Canadian provinces have waged trade war against each other

this has driven all the provinces into north south confederations with the Americans

Ontario was the Guardians of Confederation

but Toronto rules Ontario as much as it rules the rest of the Confederation by way of the Liberals

so there are no Guardians of Confederation anymore, they've joined the Americans now

they've joined the Democrat party mind you, they hate the Republicans as a result

none the less, that just makes them Woke Progressive Americans, nothing to do with Canada

the difference between a true Blue Democrat and a Torontonian, is non existent, they are one

it's all the same religion driving the left now, and it does not acknowledge borders

the three pillars of this leftist religion ; Wokeness, Enviromentalism & Modern Monetary Theory

racially revanchist, doomsday cult, money printers

that's all Torontonians believe in now

most of them never analyze it, most of them are useful idiots who simply go with the crowd

but that's just typically Canadian agreeableness coming home to roost

Canada has never been the land of critical thought, Canada has always been a sort of cult

it's simply gone from being a Victorian cult of personality, to being a lunatic giant Jonestown

all this cult  had to do was take Toronto, taking down the  ruling technocratic accreditation elites

once you control Toronto, you control the Liberals, once you control the Liberals, you rule Canada, fait accompli

the crown jewel in downtown Toronto being the CBC state propaganda arm, the thought police

those thought police policing the five big banks in downtown Toronto

so by that lever they control the private sector as well the public sector

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

The police and all three levels of government are watching in dumb silence as anarchists and communist radicals lay waste to our institutions and throw out the founders of the country without debate.  That’s our world now.  It seems that most Canadians are too ignorant or lazy to care.  The forces responsible for the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution never disappeared.  

https://apple.news/AB1l2ImsaR2ON6M9q6Bl9kw

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Dougie93]

37 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

  It seems that most Canadians are too ignorant or lazy to care. 

I would say most Canadians are simply adopting a survivalist approach

you can't vote the elites out in Canada, the system is rigged in favour of the Liberal Party of Canada

therefore you simply don't have the initiative to do anything about the rotting edifice of governance here

ergo, we are going to be living in the wreckage of what was Canada, in the wake of this postmodernist revolution

therefore we are just hunkered down in our cantonments well away from the urban centres

I for one enjoying enjoying some frozen margaritas on the deck in the sunshine, ole

let them raze their own ivory towers to the ground, burn baby burn

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

my American friends & family have also adopted a survivalist approach, as this is an American civil war in the end

they of course have options not available to Canadians

which is moving from the imploding Blue States like New York, California & Massachusetts

to the free Red States like Florida, Texas & South Carolina

Dixieland is just a state of mind

 

[Argus]

21 hours ago, dialamah said:

Quote from Sir John A McDonsld, 1879:

When the school is on the reserve, the child lives with its parents, who are savages, and though he may learn to read and write, his habits and training mode of thought are Indian. He is simply a savage who can read and write. It has been strongly impressed upon myself, as head of the Department, that Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools where they will acquire the habits and modes of thought of white men." 

 

That's nice. But whatever he said to someone it wasn't his policy. He did not require mandatory attendance at these schools. The policy was implemented in 1894 after his death, by a Liberal government.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, cannuck said:

I can agree that the problems with residential schools were from the top down, but from what I have read, the government thought it was doing a good thing.   What WAS intolerable and ignorant was trusting churches to do the work.   In our naiive and ignorant past, we were taught that churches were all good things and could do no wrong.   I have a close friend who along with his siblings were raised for several years in a '50s Winnipeg Catholic orphanage.  You can believe that they were treated no better than aboriginals in residential schools.   I also happened to have met the cop who finally made the Mt. Cashel investigation go forward - and more of the same stories.  It is not government that should be at the top of the list, it is the churches (ESPECIALLY the Catholic ones).

Do you have any evidence the schools would have been any kinder and gentler with students had they been run by the government? I mean, in other countries, such as in the US, or UK, governments ran orphanages and other such institutions and no one has a single good thing to say about the way they did it. 

[dialamah]

21 minutes ago, Argus said:

That's nice. But whatever he said to someone it wasn't his policy. He did not require mandatory attendance at these schools. The policy was implemented in 1894 after his death, by a Liberal government.

Who implemented it is irrelevant; it was policy - as you've just admitted.   

[cougar]

15 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG cougar, your historical awareness is funnier than your spelling. 

The diseases that I'm talking about are not from the middle ages. I didn't say Bubonic plague or Justinian plague, I said the Spanish Flu, TB, smallpox, etc.

Do you really have no f'ing clue when those things were killing people? Do you know nothing about the Spanish flu? You might wanna sit this one out. 

Where does it say cause of death: Spanish flu ?    On the tombstone of the mass unmarked grave?  Don't tell me the catholic church or the Canadian government did not know how to burry a child or did not have the funds.

The cause of death is under investigation; given the outrage, the prevalent opinion is clear.

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Who implemented it is irrelevant; it was policy - as you've just admitted.   

Leftists would scream if people in 2021 opted to take their children out of the school system and raise them in the woods, in stone-age housing. 

Back in 1890 you and I would have been among the people who felt like taking the young girls out of the stone age was the only right & proper thing to do. I can promise you that EVERY high school- & university-educated woman would feel the exact same way.

I can also tell you that boarding schools offer the most high-quality education on the planet. 

The argument to leave kids to be raised in the stone age a decade after Nikola Tesla graduated university would be abhorrent. Get a grip. 

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, cougar said:

Where does it say cause of death: Spanish flu ?    On the tombstone of the mass unmarked grave?  Don't tell me the catholic church or the Canadian government did not know how to burry a child or did not have the funds.

The cause of death is under investigation; given the outrage, the prevalent opinion is clear.

You were only told about the prevalent opinion, you were railroaded to it, and your ignorance left you no other viable choice.

I can tell you right now that the only viable choice that you ever face is to realize that CTV and CBC are bullshit and they treat you like a naive child. Stop loving them for it. 

[Argus]

17 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Who implemented it is irrelevant; it was policy - as you've just admitted.   

No. I said the policy to require mandatory attendance was implemented after MacDonald's death by a Liberal government. I have no evidence that policy had any resemblance to what MacDonald said 15 years earlier. Compulsory education for all kids was ordered by the the Ontario government in 1871 and other provinces soon followed. It might well be that Indian Affairs was just finally catching up.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Argus

[dialamah]

Let's review .... 

On 6/6/2021 at 1:40 PM, dialamah said:

Nope, the discussion was "How can we make these kids not indian?  We must remove them from their parents, and prevent any communication between them.   

 

On 6/6/2021 at 2:29 PM, Argus said:

You have evidence this was government policy?

 

23 hours ago, dialamah said:

Quote from Sir John A McDonsld, 1879:

 Indian children should be withdrawn as much as possible from the parental influence, and the only way to do that would be to put them in central training industrial schools 

 And here's where you lift the goalposts:

2 hours ago, Argus said:

That's nice. But whatever he said to someone it wasn't his policy. He did not require mandatory attendance at these schools. The policy was implemented in 1894 after his death, by a Liberal government.

 

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Who implemented it is irrelevant; it was policy - as you've just admitted.   

 

And here's where you committed to moving them ... 

1 hour ago, Argus said:

No. I said the policy to require mandatory attendance was implemented after MacDonald's death by a Liberal government. 

You may as well admit you are wrong, rather than trying to pretend you were talking about something else.

[cougar]

4 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You were only told about the prevalent opinion, you were railroaded to it, and your ignorance left you no other viable choice.

I can tell you right now that the only viable choice that you ever face is to realize that CTV and CBC are bullshit and they treat you like a naive child. Stop loving them for it. 

What is your explanation of the mass unmarked grave - no names, no notification of next of kin, no records of the cause of death?? You have no arguments, but somehow you want to railroad me into believing what you want me to.

A fairly recent example of Canadian leadership came from the neighboring village of (former) Moricetown, now Witset.

The town was named, or rather he, Adrien-Gabriel Morice, renamed it after himself (as well as the Morice River, Morice Lake, Morice Mountain, Morice falls).

Turns out he was just another tyrant appointed by the  Catholic church to convert the Native population.

I am convinced, examples like him abound.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/petition-to-change-b-c-village-of-moricetown-to-traditional-name-1.4262679

Edited June 8, 2021 by cougar

[Zeitgeist]

57 minutes ago, cougar said:

What is your explanation of the mass unmarked grave - no names, no notification of next of kin, no records of the cause of death?? You have no arguments, but somehow you want to railroad me into believing what you want me to.

A fairly recent example of Canadian leadership came from the neighboring village of (former) Moricetown, now Witset.

The town was named, or rather he, Adrien-Gabriel Morice, renamed it after himself (as well as the Morice River, Morice Lake, Morice Mountain, Morice falls).

Turns out he was just another tyrant appointed by the  Catholic church to convert the Native population.

I am convinced, examples like him abound.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/petition-to-change-b-c-village-of-moricetown-to-traditional-name-1.4262679

Cougar are you in the pay of the Communist Party of China?

[cougar]

25 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Cougar are you in the pay of the Communist Party of China?

Either you or Westcanman answer my question above; then I can answer yours.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, cougar said:

What is your explanation of the mass unmarked grave - no names, no notification of next of kin, no records of the cause of death?? You have no arguments, but somehow you want to railroad me into believing what you want me to.

WTH are you talking about? You think that the next of kin were never notified? How do you know that? Better yet, how do I know that's not true but you can't figure it out?

I'm only telling you what the most obvious explanation is, not that it is guaranteed to be true.

FYI there are mass graves all over NA from 1919, and probably zero in the 102 years after that. 

If your 16 yr old gets some red bumps by their nose and on their cheeks and forehead, and the ends of them turn white, is it probably cancer? Is it probably covid? Would I be railroading you if I said "They're probably zits"?

Quote

A fairly recent example of Canadian leadership came from the neighboring village of (former) Moricetown, now Witset.

The town was named, or rather he, Adrien-Gabriel Morice, renamed it after himself (as well as the Morice River, Morice Lake, Morice Mountain, Morice falls).

Turns out he was just another tyrant appointed by the  Catholic church to convert the Native population.

I am convinced, examples like him abound.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/petition-to-change-b-c-village-of-moricetown-to-traditional-name-1.4262679

The article says he was a bully, but then doesn't quantify that in any way, shape or form.

There are literally tens of thousands of people who did far worse to people in the last 70 yrs on this planet.

 

[Zeitgeist]

This article brings much needed perspective:

https://apple.news/AsW8YiHjrQbWemjIPfUMzhQ

[blackbird]

12 hours ago, cougar said:

What is your explanation of the mass unmarked grave - no names, no notification of next of kin, no records of the cause of death?? You have no arguments, but somehow you want to railroad me into believing what you want me to.

A fairly recent example of Canadian leadership came from the neighboring village of (former) Moricetown, now Witset.

The town was named, or rather he, Adrien-Gabriel Morice, renamed it after himself (as well as the Morice River, Morice Lake, Morice Mountain, Morice falls).

Turns out he was just another tyrant appointed by the  Catholic church to convert the Native population.

I am convinced, examples like him abound.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/petition-to-change-b-c-village-of-moricetown-to-traditional-name-1.4262679

I lived in the valley about 40 km from Moricetown for 27 years.  Been through there for many years.  I never heard that the priest Morice was a bad guy.  I think that is just part of the present narrative red power activists are trying to create.  I met a native from Moricetown who used to come into Smithers almost daily (about 30 km east of Moricetown) and he was always very cordial and friendly.  He told me he rang the bell in the old Moricetown Catholic church on Sundays.  I also saw a native fella in a Smithers coffee shop from Moricetown who said he practiced Shamanism.  I think somebody should ask the natives in Moricetown if they like the idea of going back and would they welcome more Shamins and Shaminism (witchcraft and sorcery).  I doubt they would be interested in that.  Although the Catholic church was a false religion, it did help get them out of some of the darker practices like Shamanism.  They all benefit from the conveniences, education, health care system, modern homes and utilities, television, smart phones, computers, that Moricetown has, motor vehicles so they can run into Smithers to shop, etc all the time. 

The main Yellowhead highway, Highway 16, runs through Moricetown from Prince Rupert on the coast to near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba as does the CN railway.  Smithers airport is also only about 30 km from Moricetown.  These transportation links provide Moricetown with all the modern conveniences of life and greatly increase their and everyone's life span and make life liveable and civilized.  People who talk about going back to earlier times and getting rid of historical reminders don't really know what they are talking about.

The old priest Morice was just a part of the link that helped bring the people in that village and area into the white man's modern civilization.  I don't see how that was such a bad thing.  Somebody had to help do it.  I think they should ask the ordinary people in Moricetown if they have a problem with the village being named after him and do they want to change it.  Morice was a significant part of their history and not necessarily bad.  There are many people in Moricetown who have no problem with non-natives and get along with them in the valley.  There are a few native red power activists who want to demand more and create conflict over this and that.  Somebody should speak to the ordinary people and listen to them.  They will likely be ignored and a small clique of Wet'su'weten hereditary chiefs may call the shots.  This is a small group of activists who led the gas pipeline blockades last year that led to shutting down railways, etc. and protests across Canada.

But I could be completely wrong.  Maybe the people in Moricetown want to drop the name.  If that is their wish, so be it.  I don't really have a problem with it.  It's up to them.  I just hope it is not dictated by a handful of activists who ignore the great majority.

Edited June 8, 2021 by blackbird

[Argus]

16 hours ago, dialamah said:

 

And here's where you lift the goalposts:

I didn't move any goalposts. I asked you for evidence it was government policy. You supplied a quote from a man who explicitly did NOT make it government policy.

Nevertheless, I have little doubt that the people who implemented this policy thought that making the 'indians' more like whites was a good thing for all concerned.

Children all over Canada were required to attend school. 

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by Argus

[Argus]

13 hours ago, cougar said:

What is your explanation of the mass unmarked grave -

Shoddy journalism. It's not a mass grave. It's a graveyard where children were buried for nearly a hundred years. Unmarked? This was in the far west in the middle of nowhere. There was nothing there but a trading fort and a railhead. Even in 1950 the population was less than 2,000 people. The graves were likely marked with wooden crosses and other markers but they wore away over the decades. I mean, how long does a small piece of untreated wood last when stuck in the ground in Canada?

 

[Nefarious Banana]

^ ^ Shoddy journalism ^ ^    Clickbait for the Cougars  . . . .  

[Shady]

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

This article brings much needed perspective:

https://apple.news/AsW8YiHjrQbWemjIPfUMzhQ

EXACTLY!

Like I've been saying all along, people with actual hearts and good intentions were trying to help get children out of the woods and into schools and eventually universities. Not war criminals.

For sure extremely bad things happened, and unfortunately, due to things like TB and smallpox, the schools were doomed before they ever opened. Still, the fact remains that the schools weren't built to be sexual exploitation centers, torture chambers or concentration camps, like every liberal article coming out in this day and age claims.

Educated liberals of today are completely oblivious to the fact that in the early movement to get children educated and move them into modern society, educated liberals were at the tip of the spear. 

[Zeitgeist]

48 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

EXACTLY!

Like I've been saying all along, people with actual hearts and good intentions were trying to help get children out of the woods and into schools and eventually universities. Not war criminals.

For sure extremely bad things happened, and unfortunately, due to things like TB and smallpox, the schools were doomed before they ever opened. Still, the fact remains that the schools weren't built to be sexual exploitation centers, torture chambers or concentration camps, like every liberal article coming out in this day and age claims.

Educated liberals of today are completely oblivious to the fact that in the early movement to get children educated and move them into modern society, educated liberals were at the tip of the spear. 

Yes the public education movement, including the education of Indigenous, was considered the height of progressive.

Corporal punishment was in all schools and some progressives like Egerton Ryerson opposed it.

The truth is that if government didn’t pay for and provide education for Indigenous, the conversation today would likely be about how deplorable it was of government to leave some children behind by not educating them based on their race.    It would be called racism.

Edited June 8, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The truth is that if government didn’t pay for and provide education for Indigenous, the conversation today would likely be about how deplorable it was of government to leave some children behind by not educating them based on their race.    It would be called racism.

Probably.

One can understand that educating Aboriginal kids was for their welfare; even the aboriginals at the time agreed that having kids able to function in the white world was advantageous for them.

But the way in which it was done, the lack of care and oversight, even when it was pointed out to the government, the cruelty that was overlooked and even deliberately hidden - that cannot be ignored because they meant well.  Even today, parents who beat their kids to discipline then can claim they "meant well", but they don't get a  pass based on their "good intentions" if the kid dies.