Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Blame those goddamn Americans...too much freedom !

indeed, indeed

but this is what it is to be an American expatriate

they're all going to be afraid of American exceptionalism

the shot heard round the world is like an expanding wave upon them

free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying

you can't rush it tho, it's like being Thomas Paine,

all you can do is set an example, live the American dream amongst them, let it sell itself

 

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

all you can do is set an example, live the American dream amongst them, let it sell itself

 

 

Boring "Peace, Order, and Good Government" sex just doesn't get the job done anymore.

[Dougie93]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Boring "Peace, Order, and Good Government" sex just doesn't get the job done anymore.

they're just Americans with public healthcare here in Ontario

the difference between this and Massachusetts is mostly rhetorical

I'd have to go all the way to the deep South to even find the America I knew as a child

the Democrat Party is importing Canadianization to the Blue States now, they're barely even Americans anymore

[bush_cheney2004]

Out with Sir John A. Macdonald...in with George Floyd !

[Nefarious Banana]

6 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Out with Sir John A. Macdonald...in with George Floyd !

Sir John A. Macdonald is completely acceptable . . . . he's on the $10.-  note.  

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Sir John A. Macdonald is completely acceptable . . . . he's on the $10.-  note.  

 

...replaced by Viola Desmond in 2018.

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, Nefarious Banana said:

Sir John A. Macdonald is completely acceptable . . . . he's on the $10.-  note.  

in fairness, he probably thought of himself as being a Scotsman first

"Canadian" at that time really just meant "the Scotsmen who live in North America"

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Nefarious Banana]

Tear down a statue of John A. . . . . . accept him on the money they didn't work for.  Just another wtf moment.

[Dougie93]

like, who is the first true Canadian ?

who is the first Canadian who distinguished that as being separate from British ?

I don't even know, is it Louis Riel ?  Is it Laurier ?  Is it MacKenzie-King ?

I haven't done the historical research, but at one point Canadian was British, and then it was Americanized

who exactly crossed that Rubicon, is a research project unto itself

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

maybe the first true Canadians are Robert Baldwin & Louis-Hyppolyte Lafontaine

the British North American colonies were on the verge of civil war in 1837

then Baldwin & Lafontaine negotiated a settlement,

and the British Orange Order and French Bourbonites have been at peace here ever since

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

I like to think it was Louis Riel tho

French Metis British rebel, f*ck Canada

f*ck Canada is the essence of Canada, pandering to some Canadian republic that doesn't exist, is un-Canadian

[Army Guy]

3 hours ago, Argus said:

I'm not sure the schools operated with the same rules and requirements by then. Some of the natives apparently willingly sent their kids off by then, and there was contact between parents and children. 

I've seen reports which say there were markings, but that decades of weather and prairie fires did away with most of them. Not notifying the parents is inexcusable, I agree, though I'm not sure how difficult that would have been in those days, getting word to parents who didn't speak English and lived on isolated reservations.

I'll buy some of that, rules changed, people changed, but their is always a BUT,  the church never had a stellar reputation even in the 80's in regards to sexual abuse or physical abuse of children, I'm not say all of them were bad guardians , but the media is full of stories of this type. 

If what you say about the graves being marked, well that is an improvement to this cluster f***, but here is the rub, if they knew each Childs name, and where they came from, could the RCMP not have notified the next of kin, i mean they where there to collect children, why not notify a family their child had passed. Some one was in contact with RCMP regularly , how would they get the names of the next children to be collected... via telegram, letter, phone, radio....or receive supplies. It just seems like the government just said F888 them, to expensive, or not worth the effort, those actions alone should tweak the interest of Canadians to atleast have an investigation as to what went wrong. So we can attach names to the historical record...

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, dialamah said:

It's not that they thought the parents would forget them, they just didn't care.   

You said this: 

Quote

But if you didn't know where your kid was, and did not know when you'd see them, then you'd not be surprised when they didn't show up.  That made it easy for the authorities to simply bury these kids when they died

It's bizarre that you think people just kill children like that. If you think that's the likeliest cause of death when there was TB, Typhoid, smallpox and the Spanish flu going around then stupid is a better word. But you almost have to be evil to have such a wicked POV.

If someone in your family or your care dies of a disease do I get to accuse you of murder dialamah? Are you a murderer? Do you find it easy to just bury people? Do you find it easy to just bury children? Serious question. I think you're sick. 

[Dougie93]

it's fair to say that tuberculosis & influenza could account for a significant number of deaths in Kamloops

but once you essentially incarcerate these children, you become entirely responsible for their fates

once the Crown instituted a concentration camp for Indian children ?

the Crown became liable for their deaths therein

under national & international law & and the laws of armed conflict, which Canada is a party to

it really doesn't matter if the staff was out to kill the children per se

neglect of prisoners of war, which is what they were in effect, is a war crime none the less

these schools in of themselves were technically unlawful

once you kidnap children who then die on your watch ?

that makes you the perpetrator who killed them, by definition

at the same time, as Canada is a monarchy ruled by an elite, that elite class is ultimately culpable

did I kill those children ?  

nope 

did you kill those children ?

nope

the Crown killed those children

am I the Crown ?

are you the Crown ?

not at all

Canada is not a republic, there is no res publica, no public rule in Canada

if you were Americans,  you could say we failed to uphold the constitution

but as Canada is a monarchy, you are not the ones charged with defending nor upholding anything here

the Canadian public are essentially passengers to a hereditary dynasty & associated elites

Edited June 5, 2021 by Dougie93

[Argus]

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'll buy some of that, rules changed, people changed, but their is always a BUT,  the church never had a stellar reputation even in the 80's in regards to sexual abuse or physical abuse of children, I'm not say all of them were bad guardians , but the media is full of stories of this type. 

Did it really have a bad reputation or has that reputation been blown up by the media? The last time I looked the statistics actually said that Catholic clergy didn't abuse children any more often than any other clergy, or for that matter, the general public. Now to my mind that's not exactly something to brag about. If these people are 'godly' and 'holy' they ought to have behaved BETTER than the general public. Still and all, the numbers don't seem to support the reputation. As to brutality, schools were brutal and so were parents back then. Corporal punishment was the standard in every British school, often for the slightest misdeeds. We didn't get rid of it even in regular schools until the 1970s and later.

I'm not challenging, btw, that in isolated places without oversight sadistic types will have abused such punishments more, particularly with poor children. But when all is said and done, the churches were contractors hired by the government. The government ought to have set and maintained standards for such things.

 

15 hours ago, Army Guy said:

If what you say about the graves being marked, well that is an improvement to this cluster f***, but here is the rub, if they knew each Childs name, and where they came from, could the RCMP not have notified the next of kin, i mean they where there to collect children, why not notify a family their child had passed. Some one was in contact with RCMP regularly , how would they get the names of the next children to be collected... via telegram, letter, phone, radio....or receive supplies. It just seems like the government just said F888 them, to expensive, or not worth the effort, those actions alone should tweak the interest of Canadians to atleast have an investigation as to what went wrong. So we can attach names to the historical record...

As I said, I completely agree that the parents ought to have been notified.

[Argus]

17 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

...replaced by Viola Desmond in 2018.

Chosen because A, she's black, and B, the Liberals wanted a woman but not one whose words would be considered problematic in today's politically correct climate. Most of the women in history had expressed opinions on various subjects which would not go well with the Left today, so they chose one who had never uttered a single word that anyone took note of. Did she hate homosexuals? Did she believe in eugenics? Was she a racist? Who knows?

Thus the perfect symbol.

[WestCanMan]

18 hours ago, Argus said:

though I'm not sure how difficult that would have been in those days, getting word to parents who didn't speak English and lived on isolated reservations.

Exactly. 

They didn't live in places with marked roads and home addresses by the front door, they didn't always live in permanent settlements, and in some cases they even had temporary seasonal settlements.

Leftists have no clue what was involved in 'notifying families' back in the day. Just imagine it's Nov 1919 and some dude has to go out on horseback to notify a family that their child is sick. The Spanish flu is going around and it's worse than covid by orders of magnitude. Healthy 28 yr olds and pregnant women are dying faster than any other demographic. No one wants him travelling into their town, he can't stay in their hotels, and in the winter he can't just pop into Save-On to get fresh veggies, because selling fresh vegetables in winter wasn't a thing back then. If the stores were open when he got there they might not be open because of the flu, they might not allow people from outside their town in, or they might be out of stock. But dauntless is his middle name so he saddles up and heads out to find someone who lives "somewhere between Adams Lake and Shuswap".   

It's not like he could just send the family a text, or cruise down plowed, sanded highways in a Jeep Wrangler with the tunes cranked, using the GPS, leads him directly to their front door within 1 hr. He has to go through bear and cougar country on a horse with no headlights, and if he gets attacked he has no cel to call an ambulance. He's just fucked. 

So for the sake of argument, the poor sap goes out on horseback, gets lucky, and when he gets back there are 11 more sick kids. And someone in his own family is sick. That's no prob though. "Git 'er done Luke! You got this!"

You'd think that all the C19-spazzed leftists here would understand how people would go into a bunker mentality during a pandemic that was far more serious than the vid, and how hard it might be to ride around the northern wilderness in December notifying nomadic tribes-people who might also be avoiding the plague. 

[WestCanMan]

46 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

it's fair to say that tuberculosis & influenza could account for a significant number of deaths in Kamloops

but once you essentially incarcerate these children, you become entirely responsible for their fates

They didn't expect the Spanish flu to come along when they set those schools up. 

 

The problem that they faced was: children were living in primitive shelters during the Arctic winters, not learning math, English or science, and their parents were determined to keep it that way. The children were spread across millions of sq km of wilderness, and it wasn't feasible AT ALL to set up schools for them all which were close enough for them to walk to and from each day. 

Boarding schools checked every box from cost-efficient, effective (the only really wealthy person that I personally know sent his kids to boarding school, then they both made it into Cambridge), and it got them out of their primitive shelters.

To put this into context, Nikola Tesla graduated 15 years before that school was even set up, and Tesla knew more about physics than everyone on this site put together. None of those kids even knew what a battery was, or how to spell 'dog'. They were looking at several more generations of exactly the same if nothing was done about it. 

 

Extricating those children from their situation was an imperative for people who believed in things like education, equality and increasing their standard of living. Most of us would call people like that 'decent'. If dialamah is the altruistic person that she claims to be then she'd be beside herself in Dec of each year, thinking about kids being raised without access to education, living in stone-age accommodations, with zero chance of ever improving, or giving their kids a a chance. 

The fact that it played out so poorly is just a failing of human nature, and not the result of an evil plot. 

[Yzermandius19]

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

just because they believed the cause to be righteous, doesn't justify the outcome

the ends do not justify the means, and neither the ends or the means went well, a fail on all fronts

enough with the excuse parade already

Edited June 5, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The fact that it played out so poorly is just a failing of human nature, and not the result of an evil plot. 

I would assert that the failings are negligent to the threshold of the banality of evil

Canada will kidnap your children in the name of Canadian priggish moralizing to "reeducate" them

Canada is still doing it now, public education in Canada is nothing more than far leftist indoctrination camp

I'm ready to condemn Canada is evil for that right there

big government overreach is an evil unto itself

[Dougie93]

12 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the road to hell is paved with good intentions

just because they believed the cause to be righteous, doesn't justify the outcome

the ends do not justify the means, and the ends didn't go well either, a fail on all fronts

first the Canadian state run education came for the Indian children, to turn them into "Victorians"

now the Canadian state run education comes for everybody's children, to turn them into "Transgenders"

[Yzermandius19]

mandatory state regulated re-education camps

fuck them and the horse they rode in on

evil af

Edited June 5, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

I would assert that the failings are negligent to the threshold of the banality of evil

Canada will kidnap your children in the name of Canadian priggish moralizing to "reeducate" them

Canada is still doing it now, public education in Canada is nothing more than far leftist indoctrination camp

I'm ready to condemn Canada is evil for that right there

big government overreach is an evil unto itself

Sure, the failing of Canada's modern education system is that liberals are morons whose contribution to society is little better than urine on the chalkboards, but it's impossible to have a society where no one says anything stupid, and the intelligence level required to teach school kids is minimal.

If you want to do something about it then as parents, we just have to get involved with their homework and help them realize how narrow-minded their teachers actually are.

For example, one of our girls was writing an essay in grade 10 which she titled "Who Were The Slaves", where she want on to explain how "slaves were the black people who were owned by white people in America...".  It's what she honestly believed, it's what she was taught. In the end, it was a really good teachable moment about why not to just ingest the slop that other people, even those in positions of power, are regurgitating. 

[Army Guy]

7 hours ago, Argus said:

Did it really have a bad reputation or has that reputation been blown up by the media? The last time I looked the statistics actually said that Catholic clergy didn't abuse children any more often than any other clergy, or for that matter, the general public. Now to my mind that's not exactly something to brag about. If these people are 'godly' and 'holy' they ought to have behaved BETTER than the general public. Still and all, the numbers don't seem to support the reputation. As to brutality, schools were brutal and so were parents back then. Corporal punishment was the standard in every British school, often for the slightest misdeeds. We didn't get rid of it even in regular schools until the 1970s and later.

I'm not challenging, btw, that in isolated places without oversight sadistic types will have abused such punishments more, particularly with poor children. But when all is said and done, the churches were contractors hired by the government. The government ought to have set and maintained standards for such things.

 

As I said, I completely agree that the parents ought to have been notified.

Quote

By 1912, thousands of First Nations children attended residential schools, many of which were run by the Catholic Church. In 1990, Manitoba leader Phil Fontaine revealed that he had been sexually and physically abused in a Catholic residential school. He claimed that sexual abuse was common in residential schools in general. "In my grade three class, if there were 20 boys, every single one of them would have experienced what I experienced. They would have experienced some aspect of sexual abuse."^[42] Canadian author and artist, Michael D. O'Brien, has also spoken out about his painful experiences of residential school abuse, revealing that "the sexual exploitation of the young has been epidemic in Catholic residential schools and orphanages."^[43]

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Canada - Wikipedia

Argus your lowering the standards, first off, they are suppose to be men or women of the cloth, sworn by oath to god no less, no sex at all, let alone with children, so one case is way to many.......Plus the church goes to great lengths to cover it all up, so much for oaths, or deceiving those that they serve...add to the fact of not informing the parents their child is dead, throwing them in an unmarked grave, and the entire picture here is not one that is very trusting... regardless of what everyone else is doing in the universe... I do believe in god, but do i have any faith in the church's of any kind, not as far as i can throw them, all of mans churchs have killed or maimed more people than any other group, in the known universe... And while they had a part to play in this whole thing, an apology does not cut it in this case, and we know the Pope is not going to give one or any finical support, and if they can not keep their pecker in their pants, then perhaps we should rethink their role in our nation...and if they refuse then publish it as a matter of public record, for the world to see. let them be judged by the planet... 

It is the government that i personally hold responsible for this whole mess, no over sight, no proper funding, no nothing really.  And it is time for the government to step up, not with words, but with cash....lots of it... and for most Canadians the last thing they want to see is more money going to first nations and be squandered away...but the government stepped on their dicks big time here, and it is time to pay up, maybe it will inspire Canadians to hold our government more reasonable in the future.. OK thats my dream, ands yes i know I'm reaching to much...

 

[Argus]

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in Canada - Wikipedia

Argus your lowering the standards, first off, they are suppose to be men or women of the cloth, sworn by oath to god no less, no sex at all, let alone with children, so one case is way to many.....

Yes, I said that. My point was the extent to which child molesting happened under Catholic clerics is exaggerated not that it didn't happen.

2 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

..Plus the church goes to great lengths to cover it all up,

It's a bureaucracy, and that's how they work. All the other bureaucracies did the same. No one really took this seriously until the 1980s. SNL had a recurring character who was a child molester. He'd salivate after cast members who dressed and acted like children, and everyone would laugh at how silly it was for an adult to have the hots for kids. Children who reported abuse at school or from the family doctor or babysitter or priest got punished by disbelieving parents. Cops ignored reports, so did schools. And if you had a pedophile in your family, well that was just weird uncle joe and everyone knew not to leave the kids alone with him.