Trudeau vows help after Indigenous kids' unmarked graves found, but offers no details

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

Unrealistic, why??   There were and supposedly still are tribes living in isolation in PNG, South America and other places, preserving their culture and gene pool.

The idea is not to "educate".  The idea was to assimilate.

So if in Canada there was zero intervention with Indigenous and mothers were about to die in childbirth or an elder needed an operation to remove a cancerous tumour, you’d suggest leaving them alone and not getting involved.  That’s the problem.  The missing major argument that most people think but don’t necessarily express is that very few people in their right mind would reject modern science and conveniences and the education that would provide access to the high skilled jobs that allow people to participate in advanced modern western civilization.  What we try to preserve now is a way of life that in fact very few people live or would ever choose to live.  It’s one thing to make art, go to pow wows, and enjoy a sea doo or snowmobile on the res where few taxes are paid and services are provided by Canada.  It’s another to live an ancient way of life completely segregated from mainstream non-Indigenous society.  How many Indigenous would choose the latter?  Why pretend that the old ways were pure and harmonious when it was clearly a more dangerous and desperate life that almost no one would choose?  Residential schools, for all their problems, were an attempt to bring Indigenous into the modern world.

The resolution has been to keep the reserves, federal benefits and funding, and enhance cultural preservation, but it’s artificial, because almost no one actually lives the old way of life or wants that.  The far North is more authentically independent and keeping the old ways alive, but that happened mainly because few non-Indigenous tried to settle up there.

It would be great to have your cake and eat it too, except that no one who works and pays towards the services government provides has been able to achieve that.   Why should Indigenous get extra?

Residential schools had problems, but let’s not pretend that they are the sole cause of Indigenous problems today.  Blaming historic mistreatment for today’s problems is too simplistic.  Some people who come from hardship achieve great things   Some who come from privilege squander it   In the end we have to do the best we can with what we have and move on from the blame game, or else there’s an abdication of personal responsibility that gives far too much power to forces outside the individual.  

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[dialamah]

In 1907, Dr. Bryce submitted a report on the state of the residential schools; it's an interesting read.  The money the government provided for the running of the schools is detailed, the circumstances leading up to the establishment of the schools is reviewed, and the outcome for students is provided.  Dr. Bryce supported the reasons for the establishment of the schools, but was very concerned about the health impacts on the children:  "It suffices for us to know, however, that of a total of 1,537 pupils reported upon nearly 25 per cent are dead, of one school with an absolutely accurate statement, 69 per cent of ex-pupils are dead, and that everywhere the almost invariable cause of death given is tuberculosis".

This report also points out that where schools were on or near reserves, and the kids were able to remain with their parents, they had much better outcomes in both education and health.  

He called for changes, but was ignored and eventually removed from his job because he kept pushing the issue.

The second link shows virtually the same debate being held here today:  

In the Media:

• Children are dying!
• Those poor children, we must do something!
• Those selfless teachers, willing to spend their life to civilize the Indian!

From the Government:

• This report from Dr. Bryce is causing quite a stir.
• We can't change anything; the Churches would object.
• Anyway, we have to just accept that many of these kids will die.
• We'll direct the schools not to accept sick students*
• Give the schools more money so they can improve the kids' diets.

*The schools needed students to get money; they wanted more kids, not less.  Dr Bryce's report commented on the problem the schools already had with declining enrollment.  

[cougar]

47 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So if in Canada there was zero intervention with Indigenous and mothers were about to die in childbirth or an elder needed an operation to remove a cancerous tumour, you’d suggest leaving them alone and not getting involved.  That’s the problem.  The missing major argument that most people think but don’t necessarily express is that very few people in their right mind would reject modern science and conveniences and the education that would provide access to the high skilled jobs that allow people to participate in advanced modern western civilization.  What we try to preserve now is a way of life that in fact very few people live or would ever choose to live.

 

Were they given a choice? No.  Why?  Because the white man needed their land and resources and this is how it all started with education, church and participation in the advanced civilization.

The brainwashing and bribing continues to this day, to build pipelines on their lands and remove the last stands of old growth forests.

"Modern western civilization"? 

Take a look into the first ditch by the highway and look no further.  All evidence of modern civilization is right there.

[cannuck]

I can agree that the problems with residential schools were from the top down, but from what I have read, the government thought it was doing a good thing.   What WAS intolerable and ignorant was trusting churches to do the work.   In our naiive and ignorant past, we were taught that churches were all good things and could do no wrong.   I have a close friend who along with his siblings were raised for several years in a '50s Winnipeg Catholic orphanage.  You can believe that they were treated no better than aboriginals in residential schools.   I also happened to have met the cop who finally made the Mt. Cashel investigation go forward - and more of the same stories.  It is not government that should be at the top of the list, it is the churches (ESPECIALLY the Catholic ones).

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, cougar said:

Were they given a choice? No.  Why?  Because the white man needed their land and resources and this is how it all started with education, church and participation in the advanced civilization.

The brainwashing and bribing continues to this day, to build pipelines on their lands and remove the last stands of old growth forests.

"Modern western civilization"? 

Take a look into the first ditch by the highway and look no further.  All evidence of modern civilization is right there.

Please.  Your very writing of this post derives from your civilization and education.  The settlement that impacted Indigenous lands and ways of life happened gradually over hundreds of years.  Early on the land seemed unlimited.  I just don’t buy into your narrative.   Most people I know, whether colleagues, neighbours, or members of organizations are first, second, or third generation immigrants.  Most of the Indigenous I know are living middle class lifestyles and some of them go back to the res to maintain connections.  I guess if you feel that something radical must be done you could give up your property  and demolish your softwood lumber framed home, so it can return to forest.  My Métis friend won’t be doing that with his stuff but go right ahead if it helps alleviate your guilt.  

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, cannuck said:

I can agree that the problems with residential schools were from the top down, but from what I have read, the government thought it was doing a good thing.   What WAS intolerable and ignorant was trusting churches to do the work.   In our naiive and ignorant past, we were taught that churches were all good things and could do no wrong.   I have a close friend who along with his siblings were raised for several years in a '50s Winnipeg Catholic orphanage.  You can believe that they were treated no better than aboriginals in residential schools.   I also happened to have met the cop who finally made the Mt. Cashel investigation go forward - and more of the same stories.  It is not government that should be at the top of the list, it is the churches (ESPECIALLY the Catholic ones).

The churches ran the schools.  Public education was mostly Anglican.  Elementary Catholic education was publicly funded in most provinces, but you can’t separate out religious institutions from the government institutions of that time.  The last vestige of the Roman Empire in Italy was run by France in the 19th century, which was carried forward in the predominantly French parts of Canada and constitutionally protected.  The English public schools were mostly Anglican and were constitutionally protected.  The teachers were mostly matronly nun-like women who gave much of their lives to their jobs.  That’s the basis of the system that would become the strongest public education system in the English speaking world today.  There’s a lot about the world 100 years ago and a half a century ago that sucked, so organizations transformed.

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Your right for the most part it is speculation, what we have right now is stories of hundreds of survivors, and no 100% proof. then again there is no proof that it did not happen either, hence why an investigation needs to be done...

Welllll, for sure the things that the FN people are talking about did happen. Children were definitely molested and abused, and even if no one ever made the accusation or admitted to it, it's impossible for 150,000 children to be put into facilities like that and for none of them to end up being abused. I think that we've come to understand that as a species.

What almost certainly didn't happen is a bunch of murders.

Of course there should be an investigation, but it's ridiculous for our MSM to crow that the least likely scenario is the most likely scenario. 

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, cougar said:

This still will not explain why hundreds of children get buried in a mass grave and no one knows about it until many decades later.  Those government officials and their offices did not live in temporary seasonal settlements, did they?

The reality is a child doesn't die that easy and when you have hundreds dead, it doesn't take an Einstein to know those children were harmed.

Yeah, blame it on some decease from the middle ages, or maybe they just overdozed or committed suicides because their Iphones stopped working....

OMG cougar, your historical awareness is funnier than your spelling. 

The diseases that I'm talking about are not from the middle ages. I didn't say Bubonic plague or Justinian plague, I said the Spanish Flu, TB, smallpox, etc.

Do you really have no f'ing clue when those things were killing people? Do you know nothing about the Spanish flu? You might wanna sit this one out. 

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OMG cougar, your historical awareness is funnier than your spelling. 

The diseases that I'm talking about are not from the middle ages. I didn't say Bubonic plague or Justinian plague, I said the Spanish Flu, TB, smallpox, etc.

Do you really have no f'ing clue when those things were killing people? Do you know nothing about the Spanish flu? You might wanna sit this one out. 

Ignorant people are taking over and the country is going downhill because of it.  The lunatics are running the asylum.  Expect education to be denigrated, incompetent people to be extolled for superficial reasons, and taxpayers to throw more money at many people for whom handouts are a way of life.  What a sad state of affairs.  People react to sound bytes emotionally without questioning or getting details.  Canada is canceled.

https://apple.news/AsFaRZ0u_QdWOjwo3gnZczA

Edited June 7, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

incompetent people to be extolled for superficial reasons, 

Lol. Great Thunberg springs to mind. 

In all fairness to her, she's a kid with some passion and I don't blame anyone for wanting to be heard, but I honestly thought that it was the height of stupidity for leftists to put her on her lofty pedestal re: the climate change debate.

Boy was I wrong. Nothing will ever beat the day that CNN put her on a race relations panel . At that moment I felt like western society was on the verge of absolute failure. 

[Yzermandius19]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is canceled

woop woop

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Now it is Egerton Ryerson's turn in the barrel...off with his head !

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/statue-of-egerton-ryerson-brought-down-1.6055676

Edited June 7, 2021 by bush_cheney2004

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Now it is Egerton Ryerson's turn in the barrel...off with his head !

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/statue-of-egerton-ryerson-brought-down-1.6055676

George Floyd Cup incoming

Lord Stanley will be torn down too

the woke mob cometh

Edited June 7, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

the woke mob cometh

 

The woke mob is pisseth...

 

[Yzermandius19]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The woke mob is pisseth...

 

don't worry

they will take Canada with it

then we can dance on it's on grave

bye Canada

at least they are useful for something

#cancelcanada

#usefulidiots

Edited June 7, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

  Canada is canceled.

reputational destruction & social exclusion

otherwise known as the female dominance hierarchy

so it's a gyneocracy

but the reason is at the geostrategic level, onset of the Information Age

while the industrial age was driven by male physical work, the Information Age is the opposite

so the entire system is geared towards females, so the system behaves like a female

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, Yzermandius19 said:

they will take Canada with it

the mechanism being the collapse of the central narrative of Canadian history

the reason being that the central narrative is in fact a racist apartheid state of the British Empire,

the onset of the Information Age has cracked the ramparts of the Canadian "cultural protectorate",

the entire purpose of an east west Canadian Confederation simply dissolving in the face of Manifest Destiny

hurrah, hurrah, we bring the jubilee

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[Yzermandius19]

15 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the mechanism being the collapse of the central narrative of Canadian history

the reason being that the central narrative is in fact a racist apartheid state of the British Empire,

the onset of the Information Age has cracked the ramparts of the Canadian "cultural protectorate",

the entire purpose of an east west Canadian Confederation simply dissolving in the face of Manifest Destiny

hurrah, hurrah, we bring the jubilee . . .

 

can't keep America out forever Canada

Manifest Destiny Information Warfare is coming for you

I for one welcome the fall of the iron curtain against American Freedom and Emancipation

Let Quebec Go, Let America In and Let the Indians Up

Bye Canada

Edited June 7, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Now it is Egerton Ryerson's turn in the barrel...off with his head !

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/statue-of-egerton-ryerson-brought-down-1.6055676

 Information war Fenian raids

the American virtual civil war spills across the border, marches on York, overthrows the Crown of Canada

Marshall McLuhan knows

[Zeitgeist]

Because the USA is more “progressive”than Canada today?  Lol.  I just don’t care anymore.  Ignorant mobs are tearing apart the institutions that built and run this great country and replacing them with nothing but the chaotic angry nihilist and communist lighters of garbage cans.  Good luck with that.  

[Dougie93]

8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Because the USA is more “progressive”than Canada today?  Lol.  I just don’t care anymore.  Ignorant mobs are tearing apart the institutions that built and run this great country and replacing them with nothing but the chaotic angry nihilist and communist lighters of garbage cans.  Good luck with that.  

half the USA is more "progressive", the other half are Republicans

there are no Republicans in Canader, so there is no opposition to the "progressives" in Canada

bear in mind that "progressive" is just a euphemism for Hegelian

this dialectic is the religion of the left, and it has come up from America to tear Canada down

this is the Yankees

the Glorious Union

first they went after Marse Robert in Virginia

now they've rounded on the British Crown to the north

this was the thing that incited Confederation itself in 1866

but the Post National State doesn't have that narrative, the Post National State has no central narrative

so it is easily overthrown, Manifest Destiny

a people without a history are easily defeated, a people without a central narrative have nothing to believe in

those who believe in nothing will believe in anything, Hegelian Dialecticalism in this case, imported from America

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

take for example Upper Canada itself

Ontario was not settled by people come over on a boat from England

Ontario was settled by Americans come up from Pennsylvania

they were simply the United Empire Loyalists, the "Tories" revolutionary Americans called them

if you strip away Loyalist Ontario with the Hegelian Dialectic ?

 Ontarians are just Americans with public healthcare then, by default

the flag that makes you free, whether you like it or not

Information warfare

yeehaw

 

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

at the operational level, it is effectively a coup de'tat on behalf of an American ideology by Toronto

Toronto is now the "swing state" of Canada

whichever way the massive immigrant suburbs of Toronto vote, so goes the Government of Canada

the Government of Canada is in charge of "Canadian Culture"

the government & its cronies determines the state religion in Canada

which is now Hegelian Woke Post National Canada

because what central narrative of Canada do the immigrants in the GTA have ?

none, they are from Punjab, Jamaica, or China

they have their own central narratives, the only reason they came to Canada was that it was America North

culture is destiny, Canada's weak state run culture being supplanted in the streets

it's not that the Liberal elites invented Woke in their Toronto ivory towers

they simply erased any central narrative which could have stood in the way of Woke

so the Woke have overrun Canada with ease, in an information war blitzkrieg, coup de main

again, Marshall McLuhan's guerrilla information war

they don't have to seize your capital with tanks anymore

they simply convert your population to their ideology

then your population overthrows their own Queen

Egerton Ryerson or John MacDonald, these are just proxies

they are proxies for the Crown of Canada

which is itself a White Supremacist Apartheid State which the Woke will have to overthrow in the end

postmodernist iconoclasm, all Grand Narratives are "oppression"

the praxis is to overthrow these barriers preventing an utopia, the Hegelian Dialectic is the means

magical thinking perhaps, but the left is a religion in the end

Edited June 7, 2021 by Dougie93

[cannuck]

58 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

at the operational level, it is effectively a coup de'tat on behalf of an American ideology by Toronto

Toronto is now the "swing state" of Canada

whichever way the massive immigrant suburbs of Toronto vote, so goes the Government of Canada

There is a lot of truth in that post.

[Dougie93]

8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

What a sad state of affairs. 

only if you are emotionally invested in Canada

only if you internalize the Confederation as being your own

but why would you feel that anymore, when it does not even defend you ?

the Confederation supposedly defends you from American culture

but for some time now, the barbarians have been spilling through the gates

Canada inviting them in to overthrow Canada

Canada no longer deserves your tears at this point, this is the point of scorched earth

Canada has fallen, the temple is overrun, this is not Canada anymore